A question for atheists/etc

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6shiw1

Member
Mar 8, 2005
165
0
0
Originally posted by: Noobtastic
Originally posted by: Eghck
<Esqueleto> "I believe in science" <Esqueleto>

But Science, itself, can be a belief.

Science cant explain everything.
People hide behind the subject of science as if it justifys everything in the god damn universe.

The same goes for people who dont believe in faith/god but take everything from the almighty therapist as if its straight from the bible itself.

True, but science gave us TVs, cars, the computer you made your post from, and is the generally accepted form of thinking (logic?) today. We hide behind science kus it's given us stuff we can all see/touch/feel/taste/smell/grope.

The root of therapy lies in studies and statistics. No one abstract being dictating what thou shal or shal not do. I've done therapy before (family feuds) and they've only suggested what "has worked" and things that "may work". You can bet if the person tries what the therapist says and it doesnt work, he won't do it again.
 

Xenon14

Platinum Member
Oct 9, 1999
2,065
0
0
Treat huberm's faith gently; it is all he has to believe with. His mind was created for his own thoughts, not yours or mine.
 

Cdubneeddeal

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 2003
7,473
3
81
I'm the type where I have to see physical proof that anything exists. I don't take peoples' word for anything. I guess sometimes I do believe in a god or the god but other times I don't. Not too long ago I did pray that my ex and I would get back together. Two days after this she did come back, only to leave again. It was very hurtful and i'm still hurting over it.
 

Brutuskend

Lifer
Apr 2, 2001
26,558
4
0
IMO you can believe in Jesus without believing in GOD.

I DO believe there was a man named Jesus, and I believe he did some things that made him notable in his time.

As far as believing he was the son of GOD? No. Not unless Maybe you want to call extraterrestrials GOD. I would believe he MAY have been the son of someone from another planet. And to ME that would be more plausible than then him being the son of some mythical being...
 

AbAbber2k

Diamond Member
Mar 1, 2005
6,474
1
0
Originally posted by: compnovice
?I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.? - Stephen Roberts

Awesome quote.
 

CKent

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
9,020
0
0
It just never made any sense to me and wasn't something I needed. I was raised an EAC roman catholic, never got into it. Stopped going to sunday school at 9 of my own volition, my mother put up a little opposition but I was adamant about not going. New research points to the existence of a "god gene"; apparently I'm one of the ~5%, a steady number throughout the ages, which doesn't have it. I know it seems a lot higher here on AT, but I think that's because a lot of ATers are young and still going through a rebellious / truth-seeking / angsty phase. As I got older more and more of my friends who claimed atheism or agnosticism ended up "finding Jesus" (if we were elsewhere in the world they'd have found Allah, Shiva, Jah, etc. I'm sure, or whatever other local god), and I'd expect the same of most board members. I'm at the age where that's a remote and diminishing possibility.
 

MustangSVT

Lifer
Oct 7, 2000
11,554
12
81
Originally posted by: huberm
As a Christian I have developed a relationship with Jesus and through faith, without a shadow of a doubt, I know He exists and He is Lord.

However, I have a hard time understanding the motive behind not searching for an answer by many. Please don't take this post the wrong way, I am not trying to offend nor convict anyone, I am just curious in knowing your thoughts.

From what I understand, an atheist believes there is no God and our existence is merely a coincidence that happened at some point a long time ago, is this correct? Also, do you feel it is logical to think that once our body dies, we cease to exist forever?

Again, I am not trying to offend anyone. I am just seeking these answers out of curiosity. I would greatly appreciate it if no one flamed another's religion, it would make the discussion go much smoother.

Thanks!

LOL. that was a great laugh thanx.
 

chambersc

Diamond Member
Feb 11, 2005
6,247
0
0
Originally posted by: huberm
As a Christian I have developed a relationship with Jesus and through faith, without a shadow of a doubt, I know He exists and He is Lord.

However, I have a hard time understanding the motive behind not searching for an answer by many. Please don't take this post the wrong way, I am not trying to offend nor convict anyone, I am just curious in knowing your thoughts.

From what I understand, an atheist believes there is no God and our existence is merely a coincidence that happened at some point a long time ago, is this correct? Also, do you feel it is logical to think that once our body dies, we cease to exist forever?

Again, I am not trying to offend anyone. I am just seeking these answers out of curiosity. I would greatly appreciate it if no one flamed another's religion, it would make the discussion go much smoother.

Thanks!

Correct on both questions. Life is unromantic.
 

Scarpozzi

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
26,389
1,778
126
I believe religion is a background for morals in society. It develops a sense of guilt by associating socially unacceptable behavior as "wrong" and establishes a higher power that you can't see to punish you for your wrongdoings. The best part of this is that you don't know what the punishment is going to be, or whether or not you've screwed up at some point in your life so you'll stay on the straight and narrow.... It's called fear of the unknown. The followers of organized religion often confuse this fear with "faith".

I honestly feel guilt when I write about it because I was raised in a Methodist church and went to church every sunday for over 20 years. I just honestly believe that religion is not the ultimate answer. Life shouldn't be about worshiping God....it should be about living life and enjoying the time you have to live. I guess some people are messed up enough to really NEED the supoort and counciling that religion has to offer. In that respect, I like what it has to offer....(though hardly need the services) I just hate those who force thier beliefs on others. No religion should be about disrespecting others and their views or lifestyles to gain respect from the religious community they participate in....
 

dighn

Lifer
Aug 12, 2001
22,820
4
81
Originally posted by: gopunk
for the same reason you don't believe in the tiki god

Exactly. It seems like to a lot people, it's either God or nothing. That is an extremely narrow view. To me there are many choices, christianity, buddhism, taoism, islam, hinduim etc etc. Maybe it's my background but these are equally valid (or invalid) to me. The fact that religion is entirely arbitrary is readily apparent to me.

If I do take up a religion, most likely it'd be a form of buddhism or maybe even taoism. metaphysics make more sense to me.
 

DarkKnight69

Golden Member
Jun 15, 2005
1,688
0
76
Originally posted by: huberm
As a Christian I have developed a relationship with Jesus and through faith, without a shadow of a doubt, I know He exists and He is Lord.

However, I have a hard time understanding the motive behind not searching for an answer by many. Please don't take this post the wrong way, I am not trying to offend nor convict anyone, I am just curious in knowing your thoughts.

From what I understand, an atheist believes there is no God and our existence is merely a coincidence that happened at some point a long time ago, is this correct? Also, do you feel it is logical to think that once our body dies, we cease to exist forever?

Again, I am not trying to offend anyone. I am just seeking these answers out of curiosity. I would greatly appreciate it if no one flamed another's religion, it would make the discussion go much smoother.

Thanks!

I will tell you this as I see it.

It is natural instinct in the vast majrity of social creatures to always have someone around. For example fish that school or bird that flock or mammals that group.

For many of these creatures, they will begin to shrivel as an individual if they are segregated, some will even die.

Humans however, are evolved past basic instinct. We can BELIEVE that there is something with us at all times even if there is not. We can take something that offers absolutly ZERO proven fact and believe it with complete certainty because it allows us to fulfill an INSTINCTUAL need.

That is why many people will have a religeous awakening when something traumatic happens even if they had no interest in god previously.

This is my opinion and belief!
 

Orsorum

Lifer
Dec 26, 2001
27,631
5
81
Well, it's a complex question, and if anyone here has read my past posts on the topic they'll understand my own journey into religion. To make a long story short, I faced a lot of trauma in my early childhood and not once do I remember turning to religion as a comfort. I faced my early life without relying on religion, at least in the christian sense, and I survived and thrived, and found purpose.

When it came time to examining my beliefs as an adult (and, at that point, giving up my Christian faith which I'd accepted in my teens), I had to acknowledge that my sense of personal connection to a God was non-existent. I live my life, now, according to my own principles of worth and conduct, and I've come to possess a bemused detachment with respect to anyone who feels they "need" a God. However, if it brings people solace, if it stills that frenzied beating of their worried hearts, then by all means, I think they should believe.

But I don't need that belief. If God exists, He will find me.
 

SirStev0

Lifer
Nov 13, 2003
10,449
6
81
Stories are stories and at a certain point some things become just too silly to believe...

I love when catholics bash mormons for believing jesus came to america... is it any more ridiculous then believing he rose from the dead?

i try no to judge anyones beliefs because they are what they are... and your holy text is just the futures myths... think about how all those dead greeks chilling in the elysian fields feel when we make movies of their stories starring brad pitt
 

Siddhartha

Lifer
Oct 17, 1999
12,502
1
81
Originally posted by: huberm
As a Christian I have developed a relationship with Jesus and through faith, without a shadow of a doubt, I know He exists and He is Lord.

However, I have a hard time understanding the motive behind not searching for an answer by many. Please don't take this post the wrong way, I am not trying to offend nor convict anyone, I am just curious in knowing your thoughts.

From what I understand, an atheist believes there is no God and our existence is merely a coincidence that happened at some point a long time ago, is this correct? Also, do you feel it is logical to think that once our body dies, we cease to exist forever?

Again, I am not trying to offend anyone. I am just seeking these answers out of curiosity. I would greatly appreciate it if no one flamed another's religion, it would make the discussion go much smoother.

Thanks!


I can not believe in Jehovah and Jesus until I hear and see concrete evidence supporting their existence. Examples of concrete evidence are seeing the sun and the moon and pushing a penny off the edge of a table.

For me belief and faith are not enough. The Bible is not enough Having 10 million people say they believe is not enough.

I have to see their faces.
 

KevinF

Senior member
Aug 25, 2000
952
0
0
Christianity looks for God in the past and present, I look for God in the future.

In 200 years, Humanity will have the power of one planet. In 3000 years, Humanity will have the power of one son. In 5000 years, Humanity will have the power of a supercluster. Give it a million or so, and we (humanity, not God) will have more power than the Christian God, namely the power to resurrect in a computer simulation all the dead and anyone who could have ever lived.

We will be able to do so much more than create and populate one planet with life and it will be beautiful.

The Kardshev Scale
 

dopcombo

Golden Member
Nov 14, 2000
1,394
0
0
Originally posted by: DarkKnight69
Originally posted by: huberm
As a Christian I have developed a relationship with Jesus and through faith, without a shadow of a doubt, I know He exists and He is Lord.

However, I have a hard time understanding the motive behind not searching for an answer by many. Please don't take this post the wrong way, I am not trying to offend nor convict anyone, I am just curious in knowing your thoughts.

From what I understand, an atheist believes there is no God and our existence is merely a coincidence that happened at some point a long time ago, is this correct? Also, do you feel it is logical to think that once our body dies, we cease to exist forever?

Again, I am not trying to offend anyone. I am just seeking these answers out of curiosity. I would greatly appreciate it if no one flamed another's religion, it would make the discussion go much smoother.

Thanks!

I will tell you this as I see it.

It is natural instinct in the vast majrity of social creatures to always have someone around. For example fish that school or bird that flock or mammals that group.

For many of these creatures, they will begin to shrivel as an individual if they are segregated, some will even die.

Humans however, are evolved past basic instinct. We can BELIEVE that there is something with us at all times even if there is not. We can take something that offers absolutly ZERO proven fact and believe it with complete certainty because it allows us to fulfill an INSTINCTUAL need.

That is why many people will have a religeous awakening when something traumatic happens even if they had no interest in god previously.

This is my opinion and belief!


Very interesting insight. Will have to think this one through.

And I must agree with whoever posted above... OMG! Was this a semi-serious religious discussion which has gone to page 4/5 without flames?
 

Cerpin Taxt

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
11,940
542
126
Originally posted by: huberm
As a Christian I have developed a relationship with Jesus and through faith, without a shadow of a doubt, I know He exists and He is Lord.
I do not agree that you have a basis for asserting your beliefs as "knowledge" to the users of the Anandtech forums. For one, knowledge is not attained "through faith" (whatever that means). Knowledge is derived from experience, and more specfically the kind that can be communally partaken of by others.

However, I have a hard time understanding the motive behind not searching for an answer by many.
An answer to what?

More to the point, what's wrong with saying "I don't know"?

{snip}

From what I understand, an atheist believes there is no God and our existence is merely a coincidence that happened at some point a long time ago, is this correct?
Not exactly. An atheist is defined by what he does NOT believe, not by what he does believe. Some atheists may believe what you caricatured just now, but I don't.


Also, do you feel it is logical to think that once our body dies, we cease to exist forever?
It is a pet peeve of mine when people misuse or abuse the adjective "logical." I don't mean to niptick you excessively, but there is a particular Christian apologist with whom I'm unfortunately too familiar that is notorious for committing precisely the same mistake.

I think it is reasonable to believe that one's individuality is identical to his corporeal processes, yes, although I don't think it is true.



 

HermDogg

Golden Member
Jul 29, 2004
1,384
0
0
LIke others have mentioned, I'm slightly cheesed at the way you expressed your question. Essentially, you implied that believing in Christianity is the norm, and those of who aren't "with it" are the ones who need to explain. I would argue that it is the Christians who need to explain their belief, if anybody asked. This is the inherent paradox in yelling at people not to preach: the burden of proof is on them. Unfortunately, far too often most of them don't even know why they believe what they do. I've known a few extraordinarily intelligent Christians, but every time it always comes back to faith.

Faith - belief in something without evidence.

Even this is misused sometimes. I've often heard when a logical contradiction is pointed out, "Well, you just have to have faith!" Faith is NOT belief in direct contradiction to evidence, faith is belief in the absence of evidence. Succinctly, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. The Christian religion holds many logical contradictions as dogma, and refuses to try and explain them. Everyone's always got the "God blessed us" or "my guardian angel was watching me" for strange occurrences, but when a contradiction is posed "God works in mysterious ways" and "Who can know the mind of God?" Non-believers (and even believers sometimes) are chastised for anthropomorphizing God's intentions/actions, but those whose fingers wag almost always seem to have similar problems, at least on different topics.

I'm torn as to the societal aspect of religion, at least today. Certainly, one cannot use the South Park Mormon defense as an argument defending religion on base principals- just because something makes you feel better or helps get you through the day is not something to base a system of beliefs on. However, as a cultural institution, there is no doubt that religion has had both positive and negative aspects. Seemingly without trying one can recall the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, and even the sex scandals within the Cathollic Church: certainly things we don't want to be condoning and actively trying to stop whenever they arise. But just as easily we can think of all those who have lost loved ones, or gotten through particularly difficult ordeals using an incarnation of the "Footprints" poem. I do think that religious belief can be harmful to the human pysche, in that acts as a sort of cocoon around the person, especially in the aforementioned case of losing those close to us. It can protect the person from the feeling that the dead are actually gone, in a way that is much more dangerous than the "they'll always live in our hearts" line that is always given. The memory of a person can stay with us as long as we can remember them. The idea that they are floating on clouds in a mystical heaven, waiting to be reunited is nonsense. But is it harmless nonsense? What is the advantage of truly admitting that there is no life after this one, this is all you've got. Certainly, you can live your life the way you want without fear of divine or eternal reprecussions, but if that's how you choose how to live your life, who am I to judge? I would be imposing the same things that I despise about this "Christian nation" of ours upon another, and I already know how angry I get when it happens to me.

Woah, I got way off topic. Oh well, right forum right?
 

aircooled

Lifer
Oct 10, 2000
15,965
1
0
Originally posted by: Brutuskend
IMO you can believe in Jesus without believing in GOD.

I DO believe there was a man named Jesus, and I believe he did some things that made him notable in his time.

As far as believing he was the son of GOD? No. Not unless Maybe you want to call extraterrestrials GOD. I would believe he MAY have been the son of someone from another planet. And to ME that would be more plausible than then him being the son of some mythical being...


Well said.

People used to beleive in magic back in those days too. If there was no explanation, it was magic or god. Just a good way for them to understand what they couldn't understand.
 

compuwiz1

Admin Emeritus Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
27,110
925
126
Rebellion from my parents, and teh evil sunday school teacher.

First I feared my father, then my mother, then when I did not turn out like they wanted me to, I got mad at God.

 

Mucho

Guest
Oct 20, 2001
8,231
2
0
How can Jesus at one time be 'Son of God' another time be the 'Holy Ghost" and still another time be 'God'?
Oh Yes, If Jesus is indeed god on the night before the crucifixion when he was in the Garden of Gethsemane and he was praying to god in heaven was he praying to himself?
 
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