A question for atheists/etc

[RallyMaster]

Originally posted by: huberm
As a Christian I have developed a relationship with Jesus and through faith, without a shadow of a doubt, I know He exists and He is Lord.

Because I don't want to look like a lunatic?

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: Drift3r
Jesus was not the son of god. If there is a "god" he is not the domian of any religon period and niether can anyone claim to "know the mind of god".

I find it interesting that you claim to know that Jesus was not the son of god. How did you come to such a discovery?

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: iversonyin
I can not see Jesus, feel Jesus and know that he exist. The only evidence that prove Jesus existance is the Bible. And the Bible was written by man. From historical standpoint, Jesus did probably exist. But I don't think of him as son of god. He was a probably good insiprational speaker/doctor who travel across middle east to inspire/heal others.

I went to Catholic school for a good 8 years of my life. I've heard all the stories, yet none of them is convincing that this stuff is real. What is real is what put food in my stomache tomorrow. Not a man-made god.

Don't mistake "cannot" with "have not."

 

[JackBurton]

Originally posted by: GuideBot

Originally posted by: iversonyin
I can not see Jesus, feel Jesus and know that he exist. The only evidence that prove Jesus existance is the Bible. And the Bible was written by man. From historical standpoint, Jesus did probably exist. But I don't think of him as son of god. He was a probably good insiprational speaker/doctor who travel across middle east to inspire/heal others.

I went to Catholic school for a good 8 years of my life. I've heard all the stories, yet none of them is convincing that this stuff is real. What is real is what put food in my stomache tomorrow. Not a man-made god.

Don't mistake "cannot" with "have not."

Very wise words. And don't mistake feeling Jesus with feeling the Toothfairy. :roll: You may THINK it's Jesus but it's just our friend the Toothfairy. He looks over you, you know.

 

[JackBurton]

Originally posted by: GuideBot

Originally posted by: Drift3r
Jesus was not the son of god. If there is a "god" he is not the domian of any religon period and niether can anyone claim to "know the mind of god".

I find it interesting that you claim to know that Jesus was not the son of god. How did you come to such a discovery?

Because there is nothing to show that he was?

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: GuideBot

Originally posted by: Drift3r
Jesus was not the son of god. If there is a "god" he is not the domian of any religon period and niether can anyone claim to "know the mind of god".

I find it interesting that you claim to know that Jesus was not the son of god. How did you come to such a discovery?

Because there is nothing to show that he was?

Sigh.

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: JackBurton
Very wise words. And don't mistake feeling Jesus with feeling the Toothfairy. :roll: You may THINK it's Jesus but it's just our friend the Toothfairy. He looks over you, you know.

Don't be silly. Just because you have not doesn't mean that the experiences of millions upon millions of others are completely negated.

 

[FelixDeCat]

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: GuideBot

Originally posted by: iversonyin
I can not see Jesus, feel Jesus and know that he exist. The only evidence that prove Jesus existance is the Bible. And the Bible was written by man. From historical standpoint, Jesus did probably exist. But I don't think of him as son of god. He was a probably good insiprational speaker/doctor who travel across middle east to inspire/heal others.

I went to Catholic school for a good 8 years of my life. I've heard all the stories, yet none of them is convincing that this stuff is real. What is real is what put food in my stomache tomorrow. Not a man-made god.

Don't mistake "cannot" with "have not."

Very wise words. And don't mistake feeling Jesus with feeling the Toothfairy. :roll: You may THINK it's Jesus but it's just our friend the Toothfairy. He looks over you, you know.

jackburton is the king of fairies, so he knows what hes talking about!

 

[shortylickens]

Well, see, heres the problem.
I cant talk about this kind of stuff without seperating god from religion.

I got no beef with god, and I'm pretty sure J.C. did live and die and was one cool cat.
But I dont see god in the same light as christians.

And here comes the problem.
I think religion is horrible. Its the culmination of everything bad in man.
The main trouble is only the religious normally feel like talking about god. And they see god in a totally different way from me and then I really cant talk to them.

Enough rant. I have been down this road before and it usually pisses people off.

 

[CKent]

Originally posted by: GuideBot

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: GuideBot

Originally posted by: Drift3r
Jesus was not the son of god. If there is a "god" he is not the domian of any religon period and niether can anyone claim to "know the mind of god".

I find it interesting that you claim to know that Jesus was not the son of god. How did you come to such a discovery?

Because there is nothing to show that he was?

Sigh.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. The extraordinary claim here is that he was the son of the judao-christian god, not that he wasn't.

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: shortylickens
Well, see, heres the problem.
I cant talk about this kind of stuff without seperating god from religion.

I got no beef with god, and I'm pretty sure J.C. did live and die and was one cool cat.
But I dont see god in the same light as christians.

And here comes the problem.
I think religion is horrible. Its the culmination of everything bad in man.
The main trouble is only the religious normally feel like talking about god. And they see god in a totally different way from me and then I really cant talk to them.

Enough rant. I have been down this road before and it usually pisses people off.

Actually, yeah you can. Religion is just a set of man-made legalistic rituals. God isn't involved in that.

 

[JackBurton]

Originally posted by: GuideBot

Originally posted by: JackBurton
Very wise words. And don't mistake feeling Jesus with feeling the Toothfairy. :roll: You may THINK it's Jesus but it's just our friend the Toothfairy. He looks over you, you know.

Don't be silly. Just because you have not doesn't mean that the experiences of millions upon millions of others are completely negated.

You're right. I now believe Big Foot, the Loch Ness Monster and aliens exist. Hey, I don't wan't to discount other's experiences. :roll:

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: RBachman
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. The extraordinary claim here is that he was the son of the judao-christian god, not that he wasn't.

I just dropped a piece of paper on the floor. However, since you aren't here to witness it yourself, you must accept or deny my claim by faith. Granted Jesus's divinity is a more complex idea to accept, the basic concept is the same.

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: GuideBot

Originally posted by: JackBurton
Very wise words. And don't mistake feeling Jesus with feeling the Toothfairy. :roll: You may THINK it's Jesus but it's just our friend the Toothfairy. He looks over you, you know.

Don't be silly. Just because you have not doesn't mean that the experiences of millions upon millions of others are completely negated.

You're right. I now believe Big Foot, the Loch Ness Monster and aliens exist. Hey, I don't wan't to discount other's experiences. :roll:

I don't know if they exist or not. I haven't seen them, so I don't have any reason to believe that they exist. However, since I cannot be everywhere at once to see for myself whether they exist or not, I have no reason to believe that they don't exist. Regardless of what I believe, I cannot *know* that they do or *know* that they do not exist.

 

[Slew Foot]

I didnt read the thread but...

OP answer the question,

Why do you not belive in Buddha, Vishnu, Thor, etc...

and you will have the answer.

 

[JackBurton]

Originally posted by: GuideBot

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: GuideBot

Originally posted by: JackBurton
Very wise words. And don't mistake feeling Jesus with feeling the Toothfairy. :roll: You may THINK it's Jesus but it's just our friend the Toothfairy. He looks over you, you know.

Don't be silly. Just because you have not doesn't mean that the experiences of millions upon millions of others are completely negated.

You're right. I now believe Big Foot, the Loch Ness Monster and aliens exist. Hey, I don't wan't to discount other's experiences. :roll:

I don't know if they exist or not. I haven't seen them, so I don't have any reason to believe that they exist. However, since I cannot be everywhere at once to see for myself whether they exist or not, I have no reason to believe that they don't exist. Regardless of what I believe, I cannot *know* that they do or *know* that they do not exist.

So you're saying Jesus is as believable as Big Foot? If so, that's great. I like to keep Jesus at that level.

 

[CKent]

Originally posted by: GuideBot

Originally posted by: RBachman
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. The extraordinary claim here is that he was the son of the judao-christian god, not that he wasn't.

I just dropped a piece of paper on the floor. However, since you aren't here to witness it yourself, you must accept or deny my claim by faith. Granted Jesus's divinity is a more complex idea to accept, the basic concept is the same.

The basic concept is not the same at all. Like most people I'm well aware of what paper is, what gravity is, and how the two interact. Like most people, I've dropped a piece of paper on the floor. There is a precedent. A villager from a remote uncivilized tribe deep in a desert or jungle somewhere might not have seen paper before though; he might think the way it floats slowly down to the ground is magical, divine. Much like how some people still explain what modern science has yet to unravel... but I digress It's a terrible analogy because jesus' potential status as the son of an evidenceless supernatural being has no precedent.

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: JackBurton
So you're saying Jesus is as believable as Big Foot? If so, that's great. I like to keep Jesus at that level.

1) No, he actually existed. If you don't believe it, educate yourself with historical documentation from the period.

2) Believing that he was the son of god and that the myracles that happened were directly caused by god through him? That's called faith.

History is history and you can't discount or argue faith/

 

[JackBurton]

Originally posted by: GuideBot

Originally posted by: RBachman
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. The extraordinary claim here is that he was the son of the judao-christian god, not that he wasn't.

I just dropped a piece of paper on the floor. However, since you aren't here to witness it yourself, you must accept or deny my claim by faith. Granted Jesus's divinity is a more complex idea to accept, the basic concept is the same.

Dropping a piece of paper is believable, and an easily acceptable story. Dropping pixie dust and Leprachauns coming in and picking them up is a different story. Jesus is the pixie dust and Leprachauns.

 

[dighn]

Originally posted by: Slew Foot
I didnt read the thread but...

OP answer the question,

Why do you not belive in Buddha, Vishnu, Thor, etc...

and you will have the answer.

I've never seen a Christian on these forums answering that question. I'm really curious as to how they would respond, or if they can respond at all without looking bad.

 

[CKent]

Originally posted by: GuideBot

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: GuideBot

Originally posted by: JackBurton
Very wise words. And don't mistake feeling Jesus with feeling the Toothfairy. :roll: You may THINK it's Jesus but it's just our friend the Toothfairy. He looks over you, you know.

Don't be silly. Just because you have not doesn't mean that the experiences of millions upon millions of others are completely negated.

You're right. I now believe Big Foot, the Loch Ness Monster and aliens exist. Hey, I don't wan't to discount other's experiences. :roll:

I don't know if they exist or not. I haven't seen them, so I don't have any reason to believe that they exist. However, since I cannot be everywhere at once to see for myself whether they exist or not, I have no reason to believe that they don't exist. Regardless of what I believe, I cannot *know* that they do or *know* that they do not exist.

Do you know that the FSM doesn't exist? Do you know that Michael Jackson isn't an extraterrestrial living in disguise? There are a lot of things we don't know. Few have arguments strong enough on both sides to warrant a conclusion of "undetermined" - in most cases we can make a safe, educated guess and be correct.

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: RBachman
The basic concept is not the same at all. Like most people I'm well aware of what paper is, what gravity is, and how the two interact. Like most people, I've dropped a piece of paper on the floor. There is a precedent. A villager from a remote uncivilized tribe deep in a desert or jungle somewhere might not have seen paper before though; he might think the way it floats slowly down to the ground is magical, divine. Much like how some people still explain what modern science has yet to unravel... but I digress It's a terrible analogy because jesus' potential status as the son of an evidenceless supernatural being has no precedent.

I guess it just boils down to you cannot show someone what they refuse to see.

 

[SlitheryDee]

I'm haven't read this entire thread and I'm not going to, but I'll treat you to my response to the OP nevertheless.

I will NOT pick up a book, or listen to a sermon, and just believe the message it tries to send unquestioningly. There is no compelling reason to actually, truly, and unwaveringly believe that there is an entity who not only engineered myself and the world I live in, but placed within it absolute proof that the guidebook(s) he gave us to live by is innaccurate. Why would he do this? Why would he have us deny the most magnificent thing he gave us, our ability to reason, and accept the stories in an often retranslated book of vague origin instead of the evidence that we can see plainly around us?

The times for accepting the laws of this "mysterious" deity are past people. The truth is that he's not really that mysterious at all. I hate to burst your bubble but he's US. We made him up because we needed him to fill a void. Oh sure there are real people and places in the bible, just like in every Stephen King book I read in the past decade. Whatever it is you think you "feel", it's all in your head. Your need and desire are so great that it has become something unto itself, a fantasy that has been your security blanket for your entire life. I say step into the light of your own reason and out of the false light of delusion.

[/rant]

 

[CKent]

Originally posted by: GuideBot

Originally posted by: RBachman
The basic concept is not the same at all. Like most people I'm well aware of what paper is, what gravity is, and how the two interact. Like most people, I've dropped a piece of paper on the floor. There is a precedent. A villager from a remote uncivilized tribe deep in a desert or jungle somewhere might not have seen paper before though; he might think the way it floats slowly down to the ground is magical, divine. Much like how some people still explain what modern science has yet to unravel... but I digress It's a terrible analogy because jesus' potential status as the son of an evidenceless supernatural being has no precedent.

I guess it just boils down to you cannot show someone what they refuse to see.

The irony's thick enough to cut with a knife

 

[Nik]

Faith doesn't require giving up your ability to reason, SlitheryDee.