No, it all boils down to, you cannot convince someone of something without a shred of evidence.
Originally posted by: GuideBot
Originally posted by: RBachman
The basic concept is not the same at all. Like most people I'm well aware of what paper is, what gravity is, and how the two interact. Like most people, I've dropped a piece of paper on the floor. There is a precedent. A villager from a remote uncivilized tribe deep in a desert or jungle somewhere might not have seen paper before though; he might think the way it floats slowly down to the ground is magical, divine. Much like how some people still explain what modern science has yet to unravel... but I digress It's a terrible analogy because jesus' potential status as the son of an evidenceless supernatural being has no precedent.
I guess it just boils down to you cannot show someone what they refuse to see.
Originally posted by: GuideBot
Faith doesn't require giving up your ability to reason, SlitheryDee.
I know that. And apparently you believe it too.Originally posted by: GuideBot
Actually, yeah you can. Religion is just a set of man-made legalistic rituals. God isn't involved in that.
Originally posted by: JackBurton
Originally posted by: GuideBot
Originally posted by: RBachman
The basic concept is not the same at all. Like most people I'm well aware of what paper is, what gravity is, and how the two interact. Like most people, I've dropped a piece of paper on the floor. There is a precedent. A villager from a remote uncivilized tribe deep in a desert or jungle somewhere might not have seen paper before though; he might think the way it floats slowly down to the ground is magical, divine. Much like how some people still explain what modern science has yet to unravel... but I digress It's a terrible analogy because jesus' potential status as the son of an evidenceless supernatural being has no precedent.
I guess it just boils down to you cannot show someone what they refuse to see.
No, it all boils down to, you cannot convince someone of something without a shred of evidence.
Originally posted by: JackBurton
Originally posted by: GuideBot
Faith doesn't require giving up your ability to reason, SlitheryDee.
Ummm, you pretty much said you cannot discount people who believe in the Toothfairy. Hey, just because you haven't seen her, doesn't mean she doesn't exist. On the contrary, I think you've given up all your ability to reason.
Originally posted by: GuideBot
Originally posted by: JackBurton
So you're saying Jesus is as believable as Big Foot? If so, that's great. I like to keep Jesus at that level.
1) No, he actually existed. If you don't believe it, educate yourself with historical documentation from the period.
2) Believing that he was the son of god and that the myracles that happened were directly caused by god through him? That's called faith.
History is history and you can't discount or argue faith/
Originally posted by: JackBurton
Originally posted by: GuideBot
Originally posted by: JackBurton
So you're saying Jesus is as believable as Big Foot? If so, that's great. I like to keep Jesus at that level.
1) No, he actually existed. If you don't believe it, educate yourself with historical documentation from the period.
2) Believing that he was the son of god and that the myracles that happened were directly caused by god through him? That's called faith.
History is history and you can't discount or argue faith/
1) When I say Jesus, I thought it was understood we were talking about "the Son of God." Would you like it if I said, "The Son of God" is just as believable as Big Foot?
2) No, following something without question or evidence is called brainwashed. Christians just like to call it "faith" because it sounds better.
Originally posted by: SlitheryDee
I'm haven't read this entire thread and I'm not going to, but I'll treat you to my response to the OP nevertheless.
I will NOT pick up a book, or listen to a sermon, and just believe the message it tries to send unquestioningly. There is no compelling reason to actually, truly, and unwaveringly believe that there is an entity who not only engineered myself and the world I live in, but placed within it absolute proof that the guidebook(s) he gave us to live by is innaccurate. Why would he do this? Why would he have us deny the most magnificent thing he gave us, our ability to reason, and accept the stories in an often retranslated book of vague origin instead of the evidence that we can see plainly around us?
The times for accepting the laws of this "mysterious" deity are past people. The truth is that he's not really that mysterious at all. I hate to burst your bubble but he's US. We made him up because we needed him to fill a void. Oh sure there are real people and places in the bible, just like in every Stephen King book I read in the past decade. Whatever it is you think you "feel", it's all in your head. Your need and desire are so great that it has become something unto itself, a fantasy that has been your security blanket for your entire life. I say step into the light of your own reason and out of the false light of delusion.
[/rant]
Originally posted by: GuideBot
Originally posted by: JackBurton
Originally posted by: GuideBot
Originally posted by: JackBurton
So you're saying Jesus is as believable as Big Foot? If so, that's great. I like to keep Jesus at that level.
1) No, he actually existed. If you don't believe it, educate yourself with historical documentation from the period.
2) Believing that he was the son of god and that the myracles that happened were directly caused by god through him? That's called faith.
History is history and you can't discount or argue faith/
1) When I say Jesus, I thought it was understood we were talking about "the Son of God." Would you like it if I said, "The Son of God" is just as believable as Big Foot?
2) No, following something without question or evidence is called brainwashed. Christians just like to call it "faith" because it sounds better.
It's not as black-and-white as you believe it to be.
Throw out some "evidence." I dare you.Originally posted by: GuideBot
Originally posted by: JackBurton
Originally posted by: GuideBot
Originally posted by: RBachman
The basic concept is not the same at all. Like most people I'm well aware of what paper is, what gravity is, and how the two interact. Like most people, I've dropped a piece of paper on the floor. There is a precedent. A villager from a remote uncivilized tribe deep in a desert or jungle somewhere might not have seen paper before though; he might think the way it floats slowly down to the ground is magical, divine. Much like how some people still explain what modern science has yet to unravel... but I digress It's a terrible analogy because jesus' potential status as the son of an evidenceless supernatural being has no precedent.
I guess it just boils down to you cannot show someone what they refuse to see.
No, it all boils down to, you cannot convince someone of something without a shred of evidence.
Reword that to be you cannot convince someone of something if they refuse to acknowledge the evidence, and I'll agree with you.
Sure it's not. :roll:Originally posted by: Gu:camera:ideBot
Originally posted by: JackBurton
Originally posted by: GuideBot
Originally posted by: JackBurton
So you're saying Jesus is as believable as Big Foot? If so, that's great. I like to keep Jesus at that level.
1) No, he actually existed. If you don't believe it, educate yourself with historical documentation from the period.
2) Believing that he was the son of god and that the myracles that happened were directly caused by god through him? That's called faith.
History is history and you can't discount or argue faith/
1) When I say Jesus, I thought it was understood we were talking about "the Son of God." Would you like it if I said, "The Son of God" is just as believable as Big Foot?
2) No, following something without question or evidence is called brainwashed. Christians just like to call it "faith" because it sounds better.
It's not as black-and-white as you believe it to be.
Originally posted by: JackBurton
Throw out some "evidence." I dare you.
Christians LOVE to say they have all this evidence. But when pressed, they fail to come up with a single shred of evidence and are only left with "you gotta have faith." There is no evidence to deny. There is simply no evidence whatsoever. Sorry.
Originally posted by: SlitheryDee
Actually I think that reality itself is not as black-and-white as YOU believe it to be. There are questions that we don't have the answers to, that noone (tooth-fairy, god anyone) has the answers to. Accept that some things simply are not known and quit trying to fill the gap with God.
Originally posted by: drinkmorejava
OMG, did we just a have a semi-civilized religious thread, he must exist now.
Originally posted by: GuideBot
Originally posted by: JackBurton
Throw out some "evidence." I dare you.
Christians LOVE to say they have all this evidence. But when pressed, they fail to come up with a single shred of evidence and are only left with "you gotta have faith." There is no evidence to deny. There is simply no evidence whatsoever. Sorry.
Sorry, the only evidence I've seen is in my own life. Besides, you'd just discount it as something else. It really doesn't matter what I say, you wouldn't believe it anyway, so why even bother?
Originally posted by: JackBurton
Originally posted by: GuideBot
Originally posted by: JackBurton
Throw out some "evidence." I dare you.
Christians LOVE to say they have all this evidence. But when pressed, they fail to come up with a single shred of evidence and are only left with "you gotta have faith." There is no evidence to deny. There is simply no evidence whatsoever. Sorry.
Sorry, the only evidence I've seen is in my own life. Besides, you'd just discount it as something else. It really doesn't matter what I say, you wouldn't believe it anyway, so why even bother?
I can't discount solid evidence. 2+2=4. I can't do anything to discount that fact. THAT is what you call facts and evidence can easily be produced to prove it. What you have is exactly jack and squat, not evidence.
Originally posted by: GuideBot
Originally posted by: JackBurton
Originally posted by: GuideBot
Originally posted by: JackBurton
Throw out some "evidence." I dare you.
Christians LOVE to say they have all this evidence. But when pressed, they fail to come up with a single shred of evidence and are only left with "you gotta have faith." There is no evidence to deny. There is simply no evidence whatsoever. Sorry.
Sorry, the only evidence I've seen is in my own life. Besides, you'd just discount it as something else. It really doesn't matter what I say, you wouldn't believe it anyway, so why even bother?
I can't discount solid evidence. 2+2=4. I can't do anything to discount that fact. THAT is what you call facts and evidence can easily be produced to prove it. What you have is exactly jack and squat, not evidence.
Like I said, you're most likely just like everyone else who simply doesn't have the capacity or isn't willing to see it, even if it could be proven over the internet. It's not something you can prove over the net. I can talk up a storm, but it's just words on the internet and they'll have absolutely zero impact on your life.
Originally posted by: SlitheryDee
One could argue that everything you are defending is based on words from a book or from a preacher/priest's mouth. If words are so weak then why do they influence you so much?
Originally posted by: JackBurton
Originally posted by: GuideBot
Originally posted by: JackBurton
Throw out some "evidence." I dare you.
Christians LOVE to say they have all this evidence. But when pressed, they fail to come up with a single shred of evidence and are only left with "you gotta have faith." There is no evidence to deny. There is simply no evidence whatsoever. Sorry.
Sorry, the only evidence I've seen is in my own life. Besides, you'd just discount it as something else. It really doesn't matter what I say, you wouldn't believe it anyway, so why even bother?
I can't discount solid evidence. 2+2=4. I can't do anything to discount that fact. THAT is what you call facts and evidence can easily be produced to prove it. What you have is exactly jack and squat, not evidence.
Riiiiight, I'm sure that what it is. It sounds like you may have a problem dealing with reality.Originally posted by: GuideBot
Originally posted by: JackBurton
Originally posted by: GuideBot
Originally posted by: JackBurton
Throw out some "evidence." I dare you.
Christians LOVE to say they have all this evidence. But when pressed, they fail to come up with a single shred of evidence and are only left with "you gotta have faith." There is no evidence to deny. There is simply no evidence whatsoever. Sorry.
Sorry, the only evidence I've seen is in my own life. Besides, you'd just discount it as something else. It really doesn't matter what I say, you wouldn't believe it anyway, so why even bother?
I can't discount solid evidence. 2+2=4. I can't do anything to discount that fact. THAT is what you call facts and evidence can easily be produced to prove it. What you have is exactly jack and squat, not evidence.
Like I said, you're most likely just like everyone else who simply doesn't have the capacity or isn't willing to see it, even if it could be proven over the internet. It's not something you can prove over the net. I can talk up a storm, but it's just words on the internet and they'll have absolutely zero impact on your life.
Originally posted by: Babbles
Originally posted by: JackBurton
Originally posted by: GuideBot
Originally posted by: JackBurton
Throw out some "evidence." I dare you.
Christians LOVE to say they have all this evidence. But when pressed, they fail to come up with a single shred of evidence and are only left with "you gotta have faith." There is no evidence to deny. There is simply no evidence whatsoever. Sorry.
Sorry, the only evidence I've seen is in my own life. Besides, you'd just discount it as something else. It really doesn't matter what I say, you wouldn't believe it anyway, so why even bother?
I can't discount solid evidence. 2+2=4. I can't do anything to discount that fact. THAT is what you call facts and evidence can easily be produced to prove it. What you have is exactly jack and squat, not evidence.
Well 2 + 2 doesn't always equal 4, but I suppose you wouldn't understand that because it does take a whole different set of mathematical rules to reach that conclusion.
Your evidence is really no stronger than that other guy's evidence for faith. In fact your evidence is evidence of faith: you believe that 2 + 2 = 4, even thought that isn't always the case.
When you attempt to compare something like mathematics, or science in general, with religion it, in my book, just shows how little you understand. I say this because when you get down to it science and religion are essentially identical, it's just the details that differ.
Originally posted by: JackBurton
Riiiiight, I'm sure that what it is. It sounds like you may have a problem dealing with reality.
Originally posted by: ducci
This is the best post in this thread.