A question for athiests..

[bart1975]

I assume this would be the same as asking if a human soul actually exists or not.

 

[IronWing]

I assume this would be the same as asking if a human soul actually exists or not.

With Sam and Dave and Aretha and Etta and Ray and Otis, I believe.

 

[sandorski]

The best I can fathom is that I will take my last breath and everything will go dark, then Nothing happens after that. If I am wrong, Reincarnation would seem to be the best alternative. After thinking about it though, I can only conclude that even that is worthless. Simply because if it were true, why does this Life seem to be the only one I am aware of?

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

For what it's worth, I do think that individuality and awareness "continues" after death. I say "continues" with quotes because in fact I believe that time does not exist, and rather that all events exist simultaneously in a larger multidimensional, multiverse-like reality. The only real moment is now, the moment-point. That you are conscious now implies that you always have been and always will be conscious. Death, then, is merely a change of focus, not unlike the transition from waking consciousness to dreaming consciousness.

I realize that these beliefs are essentially scientific heresy, and on their face they seem preposterous vis a vis the ordinary "common sense" ideas we have about corporeal existence. I will not purport to have persuasive evidence to justify these beliefs either, but nevertheless they make sense to me, and they make sense of my experience with reality.

Let me also be clear that I believe that this is the way reality simply is -- no gods required.

 

[akahoovy]

I'd like to point out that anyone who says that because they don't remember anything before being born because they were dead and that the same follows after is using inductive reasoning, and that kind of reasoning can be faulty.

Two points:
Saying the sun will rise tomorrow because it rose today and yesterday and will continue to rise always is not true. Without astronomy we wouldn't know that. It's measurable.
Also, when you reach a certain depth of sleep, people always dream. Not everyone remembers all of it or any of it.

My 2 cents.

 

[Angry Irishman]

fucks sake....another trolling thread.

 

[zinfamous]

You dream because...you are alive. that is consciousness. biochemical reactions and such.

to think that something such as a soul is divinely bestowed and exists outside of cells is a bit silly.

I don't outright disparage the notion of other plains of reality--but to argue that dreaming is evidence of an eternal consciousness is downright ignorant.

 

[akahoovy]

Yea, that would be ignorant, but I didn't say it. What I was alluding to is that saying there is nothing before birth (or inception) and nothing after death because no one remembers it, doesn't make it true.

 

[OCGuy]

Yea, that would be ignorant, but I didn't say it. What I was alluding to is that saying there is nothing before birth (or inception) and nothing after death because no one remembers it, doesn't make it true.

But nobody has ever been able to prove otherwise. Until they do, you have to go off of the evidence.

 

[Jeff7]

You dream because...you are alive. that is consciousness. biochemical reactions and such.

to think that something such as a soul is divinely bestowed and exists outside of cells is a bit silly.

I don't outright disparage the notion of other plains of reality--but to argue that dreaming is evidence of an eternal consciousness is downright ignorant.

And then there's the problem that one's personality can be dramatically altered by brain injury. If the soul exists, it certainly seems to be very directly tied to the brain, and requires that the brain be quite fully intact and functioning.


Aside: I see dreaming as something of a software bug. Every day, we basically shut down when the lights go out, just because of life's exposure to a few billion years of cyclical sunlight. So your brain is pretty much mostly offline, but not entirely. Then the neurons do what they do at night, and in the process, call up random memories, which is fed to the parts of your brain responsible for consciousness, which are themselves mostly offline, but not entirely. So your poor brain tries to make sense of all the wacked-out data it's getting, and the result is that you wake up with memories of something that didn't happen.

In this manner, we hallucinate on a regular basis. The best part is that it's considered to be normal. If this was intelligently designed, I've got a long list of glaring flaws and mistakes that that need to be fixed.
"This is not good work. If this is the best god can do, I am not impressed. Results like these do not belong on the resume of a supreme being."

 

[lxskllr]

In this manner, we hallucinate on a regular basis. The best part is that it's considered to be normal. If this was intelligently designed, I've got a long list of glaring flaws and mistakes that that need to be fixed.
"This is not good work. If this is the best god can do, I am not impressed. Results like these do not belong on the resume of a supreme being."

I dunno. I wouldn't consider dreams a bug. It's more like a feature. It's like a random screensaver when you go to sleep :^D

 

[So]

I realize that these beliefs are essentially scientific heresy, and on their face they seem preposterous vis a vis the ordinary "common sense" ideas we have about corporeal existence. I will not purport to have persuasive evidence to justify these beliefs either, but nevertheless they make sense to me, and they make sense of my experience with reality.

The reason these things are heresy is not because they contradict common sense, lots of well grounded scientific principles do. They are not accepted because there is no evidence to support them, and therefore no good reason to believe them to be accurate.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

The reason these things are heresy is not because they contradict common sense, lots of well grounded scientific principles do. They are not accepted because there is no evidence to support them, and therefore no good reason to believe them to be accurate.

Riveting tale, chap! :thumbsup:

 

[jmarti445]

I have a question. Atheists are the abscense in a belief in god, but to me that seems rather narrow minded. IE. Who is to say that with or without god that there is or is not an afterlife, or that you get reborn.

Ever do anything like a past life regression? If you haven't then maybe you should cause it is a eye opening and life changing experience. I don't know if a supreme being exists in certainity but I do know that human's are a lot more complex a being then we have credit for and I believe we are survivorists from the moment of birth till the time of death.(Though past life regression will not work if you in fact are on your first life as a human, for obvious reasons).

I used hypnosis when I did my PLR. You can get an MP3 of it or you can find a PLR file on youtube. Though I recommend that you give it a few tries cause results are not typical on the first try(you have to go under hypnosis about 5-10 times before you start getting results from the files, unless you are really open to suggestion).

I follow an Alternative spiritual path btw which is basically me following my path of my own choosing. I faced my own issues growing up with what I was told by religious leaders and had became Atheist. Heck if I hadn't met people of Alternative faith's I'd probably remain atleast Agnostic in nature.

 

[DominionSeraph]

^^ Where the hell do these people come from???

 

[akahoovy]

I think what the guys above are getting at is that empirical evidence isn't provided, so it can't be even proposed that it's a possibility. I was coming at the idea a little more philosophically, that no one can say definitely one way or the other.

The denial of mortality thing though... I for one am greedy, and do not wish my ability to sense and experience things to cease, and am charmed by the idea of an afterlife. That doesn't color my perception though.

 

[jmarti445]

^^ Where the hell do these people come from???

The planet Pluto...dude, from a normal white middle class Catholic family located in the mid-atlantic region of the country. Just because my beliefs are different then yours, doesn't mean that I'm wrong or right, cause I'm just a human being, WTF do I really know anyway other then what I've experienced?

 

[DominionSeraph]

WTF do I really know anyway other then what I've experienced?

Experience more. And fast.

 

[jmarti445]

Experience more. And fast.

LOL! Dude, trust me, I have.

Ok, I'm into studying Metaphysics and stuff. But other then that, I live a pretty normal mundane life. The moment I start claiming that I am "the one" you can start screaming at me saying "TAKE THE BLUE PILL!!"

Cause believe me, I've ran into people that have gone into deep into this stuff way too often.

Let me just say this, there is one thing that I'm in search of in my life, The Truth. There is no religion higher then the truth and thats why I've chosen this path. If the truth is there is no god and there is no life after this one then guess what, I've found the truth on the day I die.

 

[Blitzvogel]

I often hypothesize about what happens when we die. The issue is you just don't know until you actually die.

TBH I have no problem talking philosophy and metaphysics in relation to religion and beliefs. What I don't like is when people get ugly or pretentious about it. I'm perfectly accepting and respectful of atheists, agnostics, and religious persons and have friends from all camps. What a person feels is entirely up to them. While yes, some may have beliefs taught to them that others may see as lies, in the end it's the experiences and thoughts of the person that will determine their world view and what they believe.

 

[jmarti445]

I often hypothesize about what happens when we die. The issue is you just don't know until you actually die.

TBH I have no problem talking philosophy and metaphysics in relation to religion and beliefs. What I don't like is when people get ugly or pretentious about it. I'm perfectly accepting and respectful of atheists, agnostics, and religious persons and have friends from all camps. What a person feels is entirely up to them. While yes, some may have beliefs taught to them that others may see as lies, in the end it's the experiences and thoughts of the person that will determine their world view and what they believe.

Dude, I couldn't have said that better myself.

 

[Ancalagon44]

What happens when we die? Sweet, pure oblivion. Nothingness, and the inability to even recognize that there is now only nothingness.

I dont get why that depresses some people. I think its childish to want to cling to life. I mean, everyone dies, your family and friends will all die, and religion is a nice fairy story to provide people with hope that they will see them again. The short and ugly answer is that you wont - you will never see any of those people again, and they will never see you again. Its a harsh reality that as an Atheist you have to accept.

On the plus side, I dont take people for granted. I cant make things better in the afterlife, because there is none. I only have this one chance. And only I am responsible for my behaviour. I cant claim that the devil made me do it or wait for redemption in the afterlife. Once the curtain goes down, thats it.

 

[Jaepheth]

 

[J-Money]

Why do religious people always fall back on a fucked up theory that it is up to non-believers to prove the non-existence of a God, where in every other aspect of life it is up to the person claiming something exists to prove existence.

It has to be the absolutely most retarded thought process ever.

 

[jmarti445]

What happens when we die? Sweet, pure oblivion. Nothingness, and the inability to even recognize that there is now only nothingness.

I dont get why that depresses some people. I think its childish to want to cling to life. I mean, everyone dies, your family and friends will all die, and religion is a nice fairy story to provide people with hope that they will see them again. The short and ugly answer is that you wont - you will never see any of those people again, and they will never see you again. Its a harsh reality that as an Atheist you have to accept.

On the plus side, I dont take people for granted. I cant make things better in the afterlife, because there is none. I only have this one chance. And only I am responsible for my behaviour. I cant claim that the devil made me do it or wait for redemption in the afterlife. Once the curtain goes down, thats it.

Ok, but explain this fact, energy cannot be created or destroyed. And it require's something in order to maintain it. When we die, the energy in our bodies siezes to exist. Where does it go? And more so then not where did it come from in the first place. I'm not saying that you are wrong cause I can agree with a lot of what you have said....I'm trying to grasp of how I want to phrase this cause it could come off the wrong way...

In Japan, they leave departed bodies out due to the belief that it takes 3 days to for the person's essence to completely leave the body. There is a non-theistic belief system in Japan and china but they believe in Reincarnation. There is also a belief in Judaism(more specifically Kabbalaistic beliefs) that the body doesn't obtain a soul until 9 1/2 weeks after you were conceived. Knowing that energy cannot be created or destroyed due to a scientific fact, then an essence would have to be obtained from somewhere or something, if you say your parents then I say how is that possible due to it being threatening to the mother and therefore she would likely die from this process.

I'm not saying that there is a god or that there isn't a god, or that there is an afterlife, cause until you die you don't know, and I don't believe in a Hell or an everlasting Heaven. All I'm saying is this, humanity is flawed in nature, therefore how can one expect to know everything that there is to know when they haven't even researched it or studied it? I have my take on it, but how can you say that my take on things is wrong when you haven't even studied the possiblity that you may have overlooked something?

There is no religion or belief system higher then the truth. What is the truth? Hell if I know, I'm searching for it still.