A REAL Iraqi vet spoke out about the "Ranger"

[Specop 007]

Found this on another board. I think it really rings true. Theres forces in this country that want to undermine the Iraqi war so badly that they will do anything to make that happen. Including tweaking stories for maximum impact all the way to telling flat out lies.
Its disgusting. Our men and women over there work damned hard to do thier job as best they can. I thought this deserved to be posted, because this is the truth from a guy who served.

I just spent a few minutes over at DU reading some threads relating to the whole Jesse "Mega-Ranger" MacBeth. I now have a headache and feel nautious. One thing I notice is how convinced the moonbats are that US troops are worse than the Nazis could ever hope to be.

Now I spent 11 months in Iraq as an infantry platoon leader. Spent damned near every single day outside the wire conducting missions. Not ONCE in my entire time there did I witness anything close to a war crime, nor did I hear about any. We shot some civilians, but it wasn't like we ran into their house and gunned them down. First time we were on a dismounted patrol and this car comes up from behind hauling ass. One of my guys waves him down, but he refuses to stop. He fires a couple of warning shots into the dirt and yet the guy keeps coming, so he gets lit the fvck up. Guy got hit a few times, made a quick turn, and drove home where we tracked him down to. His family had taken him to a hospitol. The second time we had a TCP set up, traffic was backed up. One car doesn't want to wait so he swings around and drives right for us and doesn't stop despite our warnings. Another time a ricochet hits a 15 year old kid in the shoulder, we casevaced him. 15-6 investigations on all of them.

Iraqis know that when you see US forces, you stop and wait your turn when you are called, stop and wait until we pass, or go around. You don't rush up because you will get hurt. We have been hit too many times with VBIEDs (3 for my platoon) to be fvcking around.

But yet those moonbats over at DU consider me a war criminal and if they had their way I would be doing life in prison for my "crimes". Yet they revere this fake Ranger for his honesty. I even read staements about even if he is lying, his story still needs to be told. WTF? Are all those people totally insane?

I did my duty in Iraq. I know that Iraq has a better future now than when Saddam ran the place. Should we have invaded? Fvck, I don't know. That's above my paygrade, I only fight the wars, not decide which ones we get into. I don't lose any sleep over the civilians we hit, they were stupid and paid the price. I would do it all again the same way knowing I was doing everything to keep my guys alive. Shoot first and ask questions later. But were they war crimes? Far from it.

I hate those DU psychos.

 

[jrenz]

Of course this guy is a nut, because he doesn't support the degrading testimony of the other guy.

 

[DealMonkey]

I stopped reading after "moonbat." Honestly, I think you'd be much happier over here.

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
I stopped reading after "moonbat." Honestly, I think you'd be much happier over here.

Oh yes, you should immediately discount everything he says because he used the word "moonbat".
Thats simply sound logic there. :beer:

 

[DealMonkey]

How about we start out the article with "sh!thead conservative" and see how far you get?

 

[surreal1221]

Yeah, this guy is a staple of our military. Just another brainwashed uneducated individual. Makes the rest of the military population look like a bunch of redneck hicks who are naive to the world around them. Just don't lump me in with these naive individuals.

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: surreal1221
Yeah, this guy is a staple of our military. Just another brainwashed uneducated individual. Makes the rest of the military population look like a bunch of redneck hicks who are naive to the world around them. Just don't lump me in with these naive individuals.

So you say that because he doesnt come out with gore stories of slaughtering innocents? Or is it because he isnt bashing the war and bashing Bush every second sentence?
Maybe you dont like the thought that most of these horror stories you read really arent grounded in fact, and the handful that are are isolated incidents and do not reflect the war as a whole.

 

[DealMonkey]

Every grunt from Iraq has a story. This guy has one story of a couple hundred thousand stories. And isolated annecdotal "evidence" like this means absolutely nothing. Same reason I don't immediately jump on MacBeth's train and start bashing either.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Every grunt from Iraq has a story. This guy has one story of a couple hundred thousand stories. And isolated annecdotal "evidence" like this means absolutely nothing. Same reason I don't immediately jump on MacBeth's train and start bashing either.

Indeed...it's not some random occurance that everybody and his brother out there is able to find some story from some soldier backing up their own personal worldview. Great if all you are looking for is validation of your beliefs, not so good if you are really trying to find out what's going on there.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: surreal1221
Yeah, this guy is a staple of our military. Just another brainwashed uneducated individual. Makes the rest of the military population look like a bunch of redneck hicks who are naive to the world around them. Just don't lump me in with these naive individuals.

So you say that because he doesnt come out with gore stories of slaughtering innocents? Or is it because he isnt bashing the war and bashing Bush every second sentence?
Maybe you dont like the thought that most of these horror stories you read really arent grounded in fact, and the handful that are are isolated incidents and do not reflect the war as a whole.

And you say he's a "REAL Iraq vet" because he says what you want to hear...how is that really any different?

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Every grunt from Iraq has a story. This guy has one story of a couple hundred thousand stories. And isolated annecdotal "evidence" like this means absolutely nothing. Same reason I don't immediately jump on MacBeth's train and start bashing either.

Indeed...it's not some random occurance that everybody and his brother out there is able to find some story from some soldier backing up their own personal worldview. Great if all you are looking for is validation of your beliefs, not so good if you are really trying to find out what's going on there.

I agree with both of you. However the fact remains many jumped on the Rangers tales of death and destruction as if they were the Holy Gospel.

I'm sure questionable acts have been performed. Of that I have no doubt. But I hardly think everyone in the military is a Nazi and should be in jail either. I simply posted this because to some that is the belief. If you wear a uniform your some Gestapo Nazi out killing women and children and rinking thier blood by the full moon light.

Granted, those beliefs arent nearly as widespread here as on some other boards, but none the less..... those beliefs do exist.

 

[AntaresVI]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: surreal1221
Yeah, this guy is a staple of our military. Just another brainwashed uneducated individual. Makes the rest of the military population look like a bunch of redneck hicks who are naive to the world around them. Just don't lump me in with these naive individuals.

So you say that because he doesnt come out with gore stories of slaughtering innocents? Or is it because he isnt bashing the war and bashing Bush every second sentence?
Maybe you dont like the thought that most of these horror stories you read really arent grounded in fact, and the handful that are are isolated incidents and do not reflect the war as a whole.

And you say he's a "REAL Iraq vet" because he says what you want to hear...how is that really any different?

I think that the only thing that we can take from this is that the vast majority of us have not and will never be where the action is, and we can't take every (and in fact any) piece of testimony or information as fact without corroboration or verification.

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: surreal1221
Yeah, this guy is a staple of our military. Just another brainwashed uneducated individual. Makes the rest of the military population look like a bunch of redneck hicks who are naive to the world around them. Just don't lump me in with these naive individuals.

So you say that because he doesnt come out with gore stories of slaughtering innocents? Or is it because he isnt bashing the war and bashing Bush every second sentence?
Maybe you dont like the thought that most of these horror stories you read really arent grounded in fact, and the handful that are are isolated incidents and do not reflect the war as a whole.

And you say he's a "REAL Iraq vet" because he says what you want to hear...how is that really any different?

No, I say he was a REAL Iraqi vet because he IS a real Iraqi vet. He was there. He as much as admits that sh1t didnt always go as planned, and innocents got hurt or killed for one reason or another.
But, I also didnt hear any stories of mass murders and pillaging and raping either. And as I said above, far too many (Not necesarily here) take everything to the extreme. One mans story becomes the standard operating procedure for the military......

 

[JEDIYoda]

AntaresVI -
I think that the only thing that we can take from this is that the vast majority of us have not and will never be where the action is, and we can't take every (and in fact any) piece of testimony or information as fact without corroboration or verification.

Actually if you do speak for the vast majority there are only 2 reasons the vast majority will never be where the action is..

#1 -- your all way to young.
#2 -- no backbone or just being plain chicken comes to mind....lolol

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
AntaresVI -
I think that the only thing that we can take from this is that the vast majority of us have not and will never be where the action is, and we can't take every (and in fact any) piece of testimony or information as fact without corroboration or verification.

Actually if you do speak for the vast majority there are only 2 reasons the vast majority will never be where the action is..

#1 -- your all way to young.
#2 -- no backbone or just being plain chicken comes to mind....lolol

Its a matter of money for me. They dont pay enough.
Selfish? Perhaps.
Honest? Yes.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Its a matter of money for me. They dont pay enough.
Selfish? Perhaps.
Honest? Yes.

Why not take an officer's commission?

 

[AntaresVI]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
AntaresVI -
I think that the only thing that we can take from this is that the vast majority of us have not and will never be where the action is, and we can't take every (and in fact any) piece of testimony or information as fact without corroboration or verification.

Actually if you do speak for the vast majority there are only 2 reasons the vast majority will never be where the action is..

#1 -- your all way to young.
#2 -- no backbone or just being plain chicken comes to mind....lolol

This has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand. The fact is that the majority of people participating in this forum will never serve in the military, for a million different reasons. As such, most of us will never have the opportunity to see what the "real" story is. Every account we hear has to be taken with a grain of salt until its truth and representativeness can be verified.

edit: removed the "As such" extravaganza.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: surreal1221
Yeah, this guy is a staple of our military. Just another brainwashed uneducated individual. Makes the rest of the military population look like a bunch of redneck hicks who are naive to the world around them. Just don't lump me in with these naive individuals.

So you say that because he doesnt come out with gore stories of slaughtering innocents? Or is it because he isnt bashing the war and bashing Bush every second sentence?
Maybe you dont like the thought that most of these horror stories you read really arent grounded in fact, and the handful that are are isolated incidents and do not reflect the war as a whole.

And you say he's a "REAL Iraq vet" because he says what you want to hear...how is that really any different?

No, I say he was a REAL Iraqi vet because he IS a real Iraqi vet. He was there. He as much as admits that sh1t didnt always go as planned, and innocents got hurt or killed for one reason or another.
But, I also didnt hear any stories of mass murders and pillaging and raping either. And as I said above, far too many (Not necesarily here) take everything to the extreme. One mans story becomes the standard operating procedure for the military......

Of course he's a real vet, but based on how you used the phrase, the implication is that anyone who offers a different view is NOT a "real vet". At least that's my take on the topic, otherwise I don't see why stories like this are made into a big deal, while negative stories from equally "real" soldiers are ignored or dismissed as fake.

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Its a matter of money for me. They dont pay enough.
Selfish? Perhaps.
Honest? Yes.

Why not take an officer's commission?

Its simply this. I have a mortgage and 3 kids. I simply wouldnt make enough to pay my bills. I wont ask my wife to live in a smaller house while I'm off doing my part.
Maybe when the kids get older things will be different. They upped the enlistment age to 43, so I'm not out of the loop yet.

That said, there is one stipulation that would get me to sign the dotted line money be damned. Let me fly. Since you dont get to choose what you do when you go in, I have to look at the financial aspect of it.

And I've thought of taking the paycut now to go out and kick ass and take names then go for Blackwater when I get out, but Blackwater isnt a surefire deal. So.....Whats a guy with bills to do?

 

[keird]

Ummm.... http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=38&threadid=1865718

I think he's been discredited, now. I believe Jesse Macbeth is an idiot and will likely be charged for his fraud. There are federal agents that are tasked with investigating and preferring charges against individuals such as this.

 

[brandonbull]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
AntaresVI -
I think that the only thing that we can take from this is that the vast majority of us have not and will never be where the action is, and we can't take every (and in fact any) piece of testimony or information as fact without corroboration or verification.

Actually if you do speak for the vast majority there are only 2 reasons the vast majority will never be where the action is..

#1 -- your all way to young.
#2 -- no backbone or just being plain chicken comes to mind....lolol

Don't understand how not choosing something you don't believe in makes you chicken.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Its simply this. I have a mortgage and 3 kids. I simply wouldnt make enough to pay my bills. I wont ask my wife to live in a smaller house while I'm off doing my part.
Maybe when the kids get older things will be different. They upped the enlistment age to 43, so I'm not out of the loop yet.

That said, there is one stipulation that would get me to sign the dotted line money be damned. Let me fly. Since you dont get to choose what you do when you go in, I have to look at the financial aspect of it.

And I've thought of taking the paycut now to go out and kick ass and take names then go for Blackwater when I get out, but Blackwater isnt a surefire deal. So.....Whats a guy with bills to do?

If you would be prepared to take a commission if they'd let you fly, the money obviously can't be a complete show-stopper. It strikes me as a rather thin excuse. I actually joined the military after I graduated from law school - obviously there are sacrifices, but it's either worth it to you, or it isn't.

 

[jimkyser]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
AntaresVI -
I think that the only thing that we can take from this is that the vast majority of us have not and will never be where the action is, and we can't take every (and in fact any) piece of testimony or information as fact without corroboration or verification.

Actually if you do speak for the vast majority there are only 2 reasons the vast majority will never be where the action is..

#1 -- your all way to young.
#2 -- no backbone or just being plain chicken comes to mind....lolol

Nope, not too young. I turn 44 in a month, so that can't be it. As to why I've never served, well I went to college (on my own dime) to be an electrical engineer and work for a major corp like IBM or HP, and that's exactly what I did. I spent 4 years in undergrad and got my masters while working full-time for IBM. I have absolutely no regrets for my decisions, either. I don't think the military lifestyle is something I was/am truly interested in living. While the career paths available to me in the military after undergrad were interesting in some ways, the life I've lived due to the choices I made is something I would never give up.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Its a matter of money for me. They dont pay enough.
Selfish? Perhaps.
Honest? Yes.

Why not take an officer's commission?

Its simply this. I have a mortgage and 3 kids. I simply wouldnt make enough to pay my bills. I wont ask my wife to live in a smaller house while I'm off doing my part.
Maybe when the kids get older things will be different. They upped the enlistment age to 43, so I'm not out of the loop yet.

That said, there is one stipulation that would get me to sign the dotted line money be damned. Let me fly. Since you dont get to choose what you do when you go in, I have to look at the financial aspect of it.

And I've thought of taking the paycut now to go out and kick ass and take names then go for Blackwater when I get out, but Blackwater isnt a surefire deal. So.....Whats a guy with bills to do?

Getting a commission will allow you on-base housing that will provide for the housing that you require. Most officer housing will be a minimum of 3 bedrooms.
As a officer, you do not expect to be compensate dollar for dollar.
There are additional benefits (some non-taxable) to military service.
Flying will not be a reasonable option if you are more than 30.

The benefits of military service come after you prove yourself, not as a bribe to join.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Its a matter of money for me. They dont pay enough.
Selfish? Perhaps.
Honest? Yes.

Why not take an officer's commission?

Its simply this. I have a mortgage and 3 kids. I simply wouldnt make enough to pay my bills. I wont ask my wife to live in a smaller house while I'm off doing my part.
Maybe when the kids get older things will be different. They upped the enlistment age to 43, so I'm not out of the loop yet.

That said, there is one stipulation that would get me to sign the dotted line money be damned. Let me fly. Since you dont get to choose what you do when you go in, I have to look at the financial aspect of it.

And I've thought of taking the paycut now to go out and kick ass and take names then go for Blackwater when I get out, but Blackwater isnt a surefire deal. So.....Whats a guy with bills to do?

Getting a commission will allow you on-base housing that will provide for the housing that you require. Most officer housing will be a minimum of 3 bedrooms.
As a officer, you do not expect to be compensate dollar for dollar.
There are additional benefits (some non-taxable) to military service.
Flying will not be a reasonable option if you are more than 30.

The benefits of military service come after you prove yourself, not as a bribe to join.

And remember, military service isn't the only way to defend and serve your country. Although I'm not sure "intelligence" is really your (Specop 007) field, our national intelligence services pay pretty well and could always use more help.