A Real Scary Spin on Military & Religion . . .

[JackStorm]

Originally posted by: Jmman
Just because you join the military does not mean you give up your rights to free speech.

True, but once you are in the military, there are certain things you're expected (Don't remember if it's coded into the rules though, been awhile) to refraim from saying, and things of this nature would be one of them, as they might conflict with your duty as a soldier.

Beside, this man linked his personal views and beliefs to his job. Which is something you shouldn't do. Your job, is your job, and your personal beliefs should be just that "personal" all this kinda talk does, is fuels the propaganda machines around the world that would use comments like this to incide violance.

 

[Bigdude]

Originally posted by: alchemize
I'd just assume we maintain a secular military. This guy is an asshat. God doesn't take sides.

Yes he does! He is on the side of the USA!

 

[Jmman]

Originally posted by: JackStorm

Originally posted by: Jmman
Just because you join the military does not mean you give up your rights to free speech.

True, but once you are in the military, there are certain things you're expected (Don't remember if it's coded into the rules though, been awhile) to refraim from saying, and things of this nature would be one of them, as they might conflict with your duty as a soldier.

Beside, this man linked his personal views and beliefs to his job. Which is something you shouldn't do. Your job, is your job, and your personal beliefs should be just that "personal" all this kinda talk does, is fuels the propaganda machines around the world that would use comments like this to incide violance.

Actually, according to the Joint Chief, he did nothing wrong and there is nothing in the "rules" that prevents him from speaking his mind at a private function......

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Whether you think it's OK for this guy to be excercising his right to free speech or not, keep in mind that these are the people that Bush trusts.

 

[Jmman]

Well, he has been in the military for 32 years. He had a great deal of responsiblility under Clinton too..........

 

[JackStorm]

Would also be worth noting "where" the guy will need to get his info from, to do his job. I highly doubt people in Iraq, Afganistan and other places around the world, will give infomation to his people, when he's made staments like "My god is real, your's is a idol" I hope you (Jmman) understand by reading what he said. That he pretty much thinks "HIS GOD" is real, while all others are "fake". You truly think people will work with a man like this if they start thinking this is about god/religion and not terrorists? It's not appropriate for a man in his line of work to speek in such a way (wheather it was MENT to be private or not, he did it among a group off people) remember that this man is supposed to be hunting terrorists. If people in the middle east (for exemple) start to think he's on some kinda crusade against those who don't belive in his god, they'll never cooperate with the people under him.

And this isn't just a "freedom of speech" issue, far from it. This has religious implications aswell. You must keep that in mind when you look at this.

Btw, where did you get your information about the Joint Chief saying "He did nothing wrong" ? I must have missed that. Would be interested in finding out where.

 

[Jmman]

The joint chief made that comment today on Fox during an interview. He said that this was his right to say what he did, and there were no rules against it. As far as him saying these things concerning his god is the only god, well, Christians have been saying that for 2000 years. Not really much new information here.......

 

[Shad0hawK]

Originally posted by: Jmman
Just because you join the military does not mean you give up your rights to free speech. These comments were taken from a private religious conference......being in uniform was probably a poor choice on his part though......

in today's prenatal prelude to orwellianism known as "PC" the only one who truly have a right to free speech are those speaking in agreement with the secular humanistic elitests, anyone else had better be tolerant or there will be hell to pay.

the truly terrifying thing of modern times are the militant atheists. just look at the joy stalin, mao, pol pot..etc. have givin the world. much more suffering and death than any religion has!

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Shad0hawK

Originally posted by: Jmman
Just because you join the military does not mean you give up your rights to free speech. These comments were taken from a private religious conference......being in uniform was probably a poor choice on his part though......

in today's prenatal prelude to orwellianism known as "PC" the only one who truly have a right to free speech are those speaking in agreement with the secular humanistic elitests, anyone else had better be tolerant or there will be hell to pay.

the truly terrifying thing of modern times are the militant atheists. just look at the joy stalin, mao, pol pot..etc. have givin the world. much more suffering and death than any religion has!

Wait a minute here. I thought you were just telling me that Atheists are religious people.

 

[Shad0hawK]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Wait a minute here. I thought you were just telling me that Atheists are religious people.

no... i say it is a viewpoint ON religion. in the other thread since oorooroo and the other guy cannot argue with what i actually say, they try to muddy the water by changing it, scroll up on it some and you will see.

 

[CubicZirconia]

Has anyone here read the book Orientalism by Edward Said?

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: Bigdude

Originally posted by: alchemize
I'd just assume we maintain a secular military. This guy is an asshat. God doesn't take sides.

Yes he does! He is on the side of the USA!

I've got to stop the flames.

I am interested in seeing the logic behind your statement.

 

[JackStorm]

Shad0hawK, I have less fear of "militant atheists" then I have of religious extremists in todays world (think of why people like bin laden exist today) although "militant atheists" can be just as bad at times as you've pointed out. But look at history, I hope you not going to disagree that brutal things and much "butchering" has happened in the name of religion (although one can debate whether these actuly belive in the religion they use as reasons for their action) and as for "militant atheists" causing "much more suffering and death than any religion has" well, depends on wheater you start singling out a few people or look at the whole picture. Just look at the middle east, it's in the state it's in because people can't live in peace due the the fact that they can't seem to tolerate others religion or views.

And if you want to talk about modern day butcher's, one could also argue that hitler had a religious undertone in his ways and he "butchered" people, and made his "chosen people" remarks as he hounded and had the jews killed. And that is just one exemple of modern day butchering done by someone high on religious ideals. I just hope we're not going to have to further back to talk about the "butchering" done in the name of religion. The crusades, inquisition and all the countrys who had their own religion and lifes destroyed to replace their "heathen" ways with the "one true way". And I'm sure there were kings and emperors who did the same things as stalin, but in the name of religion.

Basicly, you have to remember that these kinda ways aren't exclusive to "militant atheists" they also been done by "religous extremists". But it would be quite pointless to argue this of matter "who has done more damage" or more "butchering" as you done in your posts here on the forum, much further. As I'm pretty sure most of us realize that human nature is at the heart of this all. Can't really blame it all on "religion" or "militant atheists" as hate, greed and things of that natrue will always exist in human kind (unless we manage to kill all emotion by the use of some drug, which I doubt will happen) but feel free to disagree with what I said so far and give some counter arguments (if you feel there's any point in continuing down this path, I don't)

Anyway, we're geting a bit off topic here. Lets try to get back on topic.

 

[B00ne]

Originally posted by: Shad0hawK

Originally posted by: Jmman
Just because you join the military does not mean you give up your rights to free speech. These comments were taken from a private religious conference......being in uniform was probably a poor choice on his part though......

in today's prenatal prelude to orwellianism known as "PC" the only one who truly have a right to free speech are those speaking in agreement with the secular humanistic elitests, anyone else had better be tolerant or there will be hell to pay.

the truly terrifying thing of modern times are the militant atheists. just look at the joy stalin, mao, pol pot..etc. have givin the world. much more suffering and death than any religion has!

By definition (or selftelling) they might be atheists but in reality they are more similar to religious extremists. I mean c'mon those ppl where treating their "thing" as if it were a religion (communism/stalinism/maoism). So I dont see much of a difference in their actions to i.e. the crusades.

 

[LilBlinbBlahIce]

Originally posted by: CubicZirconia
Has anyone here read the book Orientalism by Edward Said?

An excellent read.

 

[LilBlinbBlahIce]

Originally posted by: Jmman

Originally posted by: JackStorm

Originally posted by: Jmman
Just because you join the military does not mean you give up your rights to free speech.

True, but once you are in the military, there are certain things you're expected (Don't remember if it's coded into the rules though, been awhile) to refraim from saying, and things of this nature would be one of them, as they might conflict with your duty as a soldier.

Beside, this man linked his personal views and beliefs to his job. Which is something you shouldn't do. Your job, is your job, and your personal beliefs should be just that "personal" all this kinda talk does, is fuels the propaganda machines around the world that would use comments like this to incide violance.

Actually, according to the Joint Chief, he did nothing wrong and there is nothing in the "rules" that prevents him from speaking his mind at a private function......

Yeah, but in full military uniform?

 

[Jmman]

Evidently even in full uniform it is not a breach of military rules......

 

[Rilescat]

Originally posted by: BOBDN
OMG - this nut sounds like Base Commander Ripper in "Dr. Strangelove"!

Purity Of Essence!

POE!

OUR religious fanatics are just as bad as THEIR religious fanatics. No excuse for any of them.

YES! The greatest conspiracy is the communist infiltration of floride in our precious waters!

 

[JackStorm]

Originally posted by: Jmman
Evidently even in full uniform it is not a breach of military rules......

Ok, if you say it's not a "breach of military rules" And since I can't remember anymore if it was or not. I guess i'll have to take your word for it. But you have to agree it was very inappropriate. Specialy considering how unstable things are at the moment.