a ridiculous idea by the music industry? srly you jest

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,414
1,574
126
Text


Digital-strategy consultant Jim Griffin thinks ISPs should be made to collect a music surcharge from broadband users to compensate the copyright holders.
Courtesy U.S. Senate

Having failed to stop piracy by suing internet users, the music industry is for the first time seriously considering a file sharing surcharge that internet service providers would collect from users.

In recent months, some of the major labels have warmed to a pitch by Jim Griffin, one of the idea's chief proponents, to seek an extra fee on broadband connections and to use the money to compensate rights holders for music that's shared online. Griffin, who consults on digital strategy for three of the four majors, will argue his case at what promises to be a heated discussion Friday at South by Southwest.

"It's monetizing the anarchy," says Peter Jenner, head of the International Music Manager's Forum, who plans to join Griffin on the panel.

Griffin's idea is to collect a fee from internet service providers -- something like $5 per user per month -- and put it into a pool that would be used to compensate songwriters, performers, publishers and music labels. A collecting agency would divvy up the money according to artists' popularity on P2P sites, just as ASCAP and BMI pay songwriters for broadcasts and live performances of their work.

The idea is controversial but -- as Griffin and Jenner point out -- hardly without precedent. The concept of collecting a fee for unauthorized use of music was developed in France in 1851 as a way of reimbursing composers whose work was being performed without their permission in cafes and the like.

The practice spread to the United States in 1914 and currently applies to radio airplay and webcasts in addition to live performances. In a 2004 white paper, the Electronic Frontier Foundation called for it to be applied to file sharing, but the Recording Industry Association of America immediately dismissed the proposal.

Things are different now. "The labels are beginning to like the idea of an access-to-music charge," says Jenner, who once managed Pink Floyd and the Clash, "because they're increasingly aware that their current model is broken." U.S. music sales, which peaked in 1999 at nearly $15 billion, dropped to $11.5 billion in 2006. Last year's figures are still being tallied, but with CD sales cratering and online sales overwhelmingly dominated by singles, the only question is how far they'll fall.

Meanwhile, the industry's antipiracy efforts appear more and more futile. Digital rights management, long touted as a solution, has been all but abandoned. And though the RIAA is said to have threatened or taken action against some 20,000 suspected file sharers, the market-research firm NPD Group reports that nearly 20 percent of U.S. internet users downloaded music illegally last year. The score to date: 0.02 million alleged P2P users down, 40.98 million to go.

At the music industry trade show MIDEM last year, John Kennedy, the head of IFPI -- the RIAA's international affiliate organization -- offered modest support for the kind of licensing fee Griffin and Jenner propose. "It's a model worth looking at," he said at a press conference. "If the ISPs want to come to us and look for a blanket license for an amount per month, let's engage in that discussion."

The tone at the January 2008 MIDEM in Cannes, France, was more combative. Longtime U2 manager Paul McGuinness said in a widely reported speech that it was time to hold ISPs responsible for the file sharing deluge. McGuinness wants network operators to cut off those the industry deems offenders -- an approach France's Sarkozy government is already pushing in that country. "If ISPs do not cooperate voluntarily," McGuinness declared, "there will need to be legislation to force them to cooperate," McGuinness said.

Behind closed doors, however, MIDEM attendees discussed the prospect of collecting money from ISPs instead. An invitation-only meeting on the subject drew about 50 people, including representatives of IFPI, Sony BMG, T-Mobile, the giant European ISP and mobile-carrier Orange, and performing-rights organizations like BMI. The response, according to Jenner, "ranged from 'What do we do now?' to 'It sounds good, but can it possibly work?' A lot of people are like rabbits in the headlights: They're terrified they're going to lose their jobs. No one dares to feel that this might be the solution."

Even so, notes Shira Perlmutter, IFPI?s head of legal policy, ?none of our members are ruling anything out. These companies are all very open to creative new ideas that would allow customers to do things they want -- including using file sharing technologies.?

Not everyone sees the two approaches as an either-or situation. "I love Paul McGuinness' idea," says another scheduled SXSW panelist, Dina LaPolt, a Los Angeles attorney who represents Mötley Crüe and the estate of Tupac Shakur. "And I love the idea of trying to make ISPs pay artists and make up for all the free crap that's going on. I support both, so long as artists are getting paid for their work."

Whether ISPs will be willing to ante up remains far from clear, especially since many users can be expected to protest the extra charge. One option would be to introduce different service tiers and impose the surcharge only on customers who buy enough bandwidth to make file sharing feasible. But for ISPs, other music-industry demands could be far more onerous.

In the weeks since MIDEM, antipiracy zealots have been using McGuinness's speech as a rallying cry. Last month the British media reported that a government white paper was about to call for legislation to force ISPs to move against suspected file sharers. As it turned out, the white paper merely included a vague call for "voluntary, preferably commercial solutions" by April 2009.

Just Monday, the four majors sued the largest ISP in Ireland in an attempt to force it to block illicit downloads. Attorneys for Eircom retorted that it was not legally obligated to monitor its network traffic.

AT&T has been looking into content-sniffing technology that could turn it into a spy agency for music labels and film studios, but most ISPs seem distinctly unenthusiastic about the idea. They have good reason to be.

Technology experts say it would be impossible to reliably inspect trillions of packets for pirated material, especially if file sharing networks resort to encryption mechanisms. Legal experts point out that any attempt by an ISP to monitor its traffic in this way would jeopardize its status as a common carrier. It could also leave the ISP open to lawsuits from subscribers who get cut off without good reason. And financial experts say it would cost a bundle to implement.

But the bottom line is, it simply won?t work. ?Ultimately there is no real hope of eradicating copyright-infringing technology,? says another SXSW panelist, Eric Garland, CEO of BigChampagne, which tracks the popularity of music online. ?You can push piracy around, discourage people from doing it in this or that venue, but I don?t think in even the most Orwellian scenario you could reduce massive infringement in a comprehensive way.?

So, which will it be: A last-gasp assault on piracy, or a truce that would bring in money and benefit everyone except the lawyers?

At this point, the music industry seems too dazed to decide -- and several nights in Austin probably won't help. Though Jenner and McGuinness are on opposite sides of the debate, their good cop-bad cop routine could ultimately prove synergistic. Pay up, the music people are telling internet providers, or we'll sic Washington on you -- and London and Paris and anybody else we can find.
 

NanoStuff

Banned
Mar 23, 2006
2,981
1
0
No idea that makes money is ridiculous. What would be ridiculous is if this is allowed to pass.
 

paulxcook

Diamond Member
May 1, 2005
4,277
1
0
Hmm. I think a large percentage of broadband users aren't using broadband for piracy. Hence, this won't work. What a retarded idea.
 

NL5

Diamond Member
Apr 28, 2003
3,287
12
81
The music industry is over, or at least the way they were for the last 50-60 years.....they just need to accept it.



 

pulse8

Lifer
May 3, 2000
20,860
1
81
I hope they understand that if I'm charged $5 a month on my DSL bill that I'm going download music like crazy and expect to not get sued.
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,599
19
81
And let me guess, 200 years from now, when everyone's using subspace wireless networks, and music is streamed directly on telepathic wavelengths, there'll still be a "music surcharge" on the books.


Having failed to stop piracy by suing internet users, the music industry's executives are for the first time seriously considering putting on diapers and having a big tantrum in the middle of Times Square. One of them said, "It's what we've been doing in terms of policy over the past few years, and we figured it was time to demonstrate this to the public in a more literal sense."
As of the time of this publication, they had not yet decided if they were going to soil themselves as well, but were "seriously considering" it.
 

lokiju

Lifer
May 29, 2003
18,536
5
0
Originally posted by: pulse8
I hope they understand that if I'm charged $5 a month on my DSL bill that I'm going download music like crazy and expect to not get sued.

Pretty much.
 

jjones

Lifer
Oct 9, 2001
15,425
2
0
Music Industry: $5.00
Movie Industry: $5.00
Software Industry: $5.00

Am I missing anyone? Anyone else need a piece of the pie? eBooks? How about we give a buck or two to every domain holder that has a viable web site. All kinds of copyright infringement going on there.

And exactly why should the 80% of internet users that don't practice copyright infringement pay for the 20% that do?
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,599
19
81
Originally posted by: jjones
Music Industry: $5.00
Movie Industry: $5.00
Software Industry: $5.00

Am I missing anyone? Anyone else need a piece of the pie? eBooks? How about we give a buck or two to every domain holder that has a viable web site. All kinds of copyright infringement going on there.

And exactly why should the 80% of internet users that don't practice copyright infringement pay for the 20% that do?
Addition: Regular cable TV companies and studios - stuff like South Park and Mythbusters can be downloaded from the Internet.
 

TechBoyJK

Lifer
Oct 17, 2002
16,701
60
91
Originally posted by: Nitemare
Originally posted by: Mr Incognito
Originally posted by: pulse8
I hope they understand that if I'm charged $5 a month on my DSL bill that I'm going download music like crazy and expect to not get sued.

Yup.

same

i concur, and I would pay, becuse $5 really isnt much considering that if I knew I had the right of way, I would go full steam downloading the entire internet.
 

fire400

Diamond Member
Nov 21, 2005
5,204
21
81
Originally posted by: Spacehead
My dial-up connection is looking better & better

For some reason I didn't laugh. Minneapolis offers high speed Internet over wifi for just 20 bucks a month, you get 1mb, 30 bucks gets you 3mb.

Anyway, this thread's interesting because a while back some kid posted an article about recording/publishing studios fighting over which/how-much of their music can be played more in public areas.
Key: as if, anyone seriously cares because of piracy just spikin' sky high. but small laws make up big laws.

good luck music industries..

oh yeah, who's to say who gets the money over dividends?
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
20,657
5,346
136
If they do it, I'll dl everything I want since I'm going to be forced to pay for it. Since a lot of people will have the same attitude, I wonder how bad it will hurt itunes sales?
 

Nitemare

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
35,466
4
76
Originally posted by: Greenman
If they do it, I'll dl everything I want since I'm going to be forced to pay for it. Since a lot of people will have the same attitude, I wonder how bad it will hurt itunes sales?

what sales?

$5 all you can download
 

Injury

Lifer
Jul 19, 2004
13,066
2
0
Originally posted by: pulse8
I hope they understand that if I'm charged $5 a month on my DSL bill that I'm going download music like crazy and expect to not get sued.

I'll just flat out cancel my service out of principal.

I'm not just going to sit around and pay $60/year direct to the RIAA when we all know none of it will reach the artists.

At least they are realizing that pursuing legal action is failing.
 

Soundmanred

Lifer
Oct 26, 2006
10,784
6
81
Originally posted by: pulse8
I hope they understand that if I'm charged $5 a month on my DSL bill that I'm going download music like crazy and expect to not get sued.

When they try to sue you, just say "oh, it's already been paid for".
 

Joemonkey

Diamond Member
Mar 3, 2001
8,862
2
0
Originally posted by: Injury
Originally posted by: pulse8
I hope they understand that if I'm charged $5 a month on my DSL bill that I'm going download music like crazy and expect to not get sued.

I'll just flat out cancel my service out of principal.

I'm not just going to sit around and pay $60/year direct to the RIAA when we all know none of it will reach the artists.

At least they are realizing that pursuing legal action is failing.

exactly. There was a post around here recently that showed that $0 from RIAA action has made it to the artist's pockets anyway
 

NanoStuff

Banned
Mar 23, 2006
2,981
1
0
Originally posted by: Joemonkey
There was a post around here recently that showed that $0 from RIAA action has made it to the artist's pockets anyway

That was never the intention. On the contrary, labels give the RIAA money not the other way around. The idea behind it is an indirect boost of sales. RIAA fear mongering gets people to buy music, and they keep all lawsuit revenue as a means to finance themselves. The music industry never had any expectation of the RIAA to pay them money.
 

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
30,306
10,804
136
Originally posted by: Nitemare
Originally posted by: Greenman
If they do it, I'll dl everything I want since I'm going to be forced to pay for it. Since a lot of people will have the same attitude, I wonder how bad it will hurt itunes sales?

what sales?

$5 all you can download


Yep ... I don't illegally download any music now, but if this craptastic law gets pushed through all bets are off ... not only will I download anything & everything but I'll never pay for a scrap of content ever again.
 

frostedflakes

Diamond Member
Mar 1, 2005
7,925
1
81
The problem is that even if something like this goes into effect, they will probably still go after copyright infringement on a case-by-case basis.

It also annoys me how they try to claim music sales are down, and that it's because of illegal downloading. Digital sales have actually increased dramatically, the only reason sales are "down" is because RIAA counts ten single-track downloads as one album. This method is flawed IMO, because most popular albums only have a few songs that are good, or at least that people care about. Before single-track downloads, people had no choice but to go out and pick up the entire album for those one or two songs, so CD sales were high. With single-track downloads, though, people no longer have to spend $15+ on a few songs. If the RIAA counted two tracks as an album, I'm sure that single-track sales would more than make up for the decline in CD sales. Basically, I don't think the problem anymore is file sharing, it's filler crap that most mainstream albums consist of. I honestly believe that now that options are available (iTunes, Amazon, etc.), more people are legally buying music than ever before.

I also wonder how many "lost" sales are due to people choosing to spend their money on indie and unsigned artists. RIAA seems to think that if a person isn't buying their music, that means they're downloading it illegally. I wonder how many are just sick of their BS and would rather support lesser known bands. I think sites like eMusic, CDBaby, etc. are growing rapidly. It will surely taper off eventually, but for now things seem to be going pretty well. Here's part of a press release about eMusic's growth.

"NEW YORK, Aug. 16, 2007 -- eMusic, the world's largest retailer of independent music and the second-largest digital music service after iTunes, today announced that it has sold more than 150 million downloads ? less than nine months after the company notched its 100 millionth download in December 2006. The milestone demonstrates continued momentum for eMusic, which hit 50 million downloads about 26 months after establishing the current subscription model in 2003 and 100 million downloads just 11 months later. The company is now selling about six million tracks a month."

Just some stuff to think about.
 
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