A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones - HERE BE SPOILERS

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MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
38,751
3,068
121
Well I'd never heard of a White Walker either till the series
 
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blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
8,679
502
126
Jon Snow might be
the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark.

that is something I would have used spoiler tags for even in a spoiler thread...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CK9Y...eature=iv&annotation_id=annotation_3617385137

Honest Trailer: Game of Thrones non spoiler edition. All the bleeps and blurred images make the non-spoiler one a bit more funny than the version with spoilers.

If you post any spoilers I'll kill you, but to my book bros R+L=J. You know what I'm talking about.




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quikah

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2003
4,086
664
126
If R+L=J is true I am going to be sort of disappointed. Almost everything I see written about it seems to imply that Lyanna went willingly, that the supposed abduction was a farse. That just seems completely ridiculous to me. Her brother and father were murdered and a war started over it, if she truly ran away with Raegar you would think she could get some word out to stop the madness.

If we accept that R+L is true then I could accept that Rhaegar DID abduct her in an attempt to fulfill the Prince that was Promissed prophecy. He forcefully married her, similar to what happened to Sansa (except he wasn't as gracious about consummating as Tyrion).
 

blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
8,679
502
126
If R+L=J is true I am going to be sort of disappointed. Almost everything I see written about it seems to imply that Lyanna went willingly, that the supposed abduction was a farse. That just seems completely ridiculous to me. Her brother and father were murdered and a war started over it, if she truly ran away with Raegar you would think she could get some word out to stop the madness.

If we accept that R+L is true then I could accept that Rhaegar DID abduct her in an attempt to fulfill the Prince that was Promissed prophecy. He forcefully married her, similar to what happened to Sansa (except he wasn't as gracious about consummating as Tyrion).


We don't know the specific situation and considering the way the hints have been dropped in a subtle manner, I would think that without the internet a majority of book readers would not have guessed it.

As for the ridiculousness of the situation it just shows that even well regarded characters aren't perfect. Rhaegar is really only hated by Robert and other characters seem to think he was a fairly stand up guy. but he became obsessed with a prophecy and stupidly did nothing to let anyone know what happened, or did try to in a way that failed spectacularly as no one seemed to get the message.

for example
In one of his chapters Ned thinks about all the whorehouses in King's Landing and ends up thinking that he doubted Prince Rhaegar wouldn't be the type to visit them.

As for Rhaegar abducting Lyanna
in the Bran chapters Meera and Jojen related a over time that points to Rhaegar naming Lyanna the Queen of Beauty at a tournament before the rebellion and Lyanna weeping over the beauty of a song that Rhaegar performs.
Additionally Ned remembers talking with Lyanna about her betrothal to Robert and trying to convince her that once married Robert will change his whoring/wenching ways. Lyanna remained unconvinced.
Rhaegar on the other hand probably only decided to be unfaithful to his wife when it was clear that she couldn't for health reasons bear him another child. He might also have married Lyanna as well in a secret ceremony, I'm fairly sure that Targs in the past have taken more than one wife while both were still alive

Another fact is that when Ned is in pain from his leg he remembers, in fevered recollections, Lyanna begging him to make a promise to her while she was dying in her bed of blood
perhaps a bed she gave birth in and when Ned promised the fear left her eyes. Much speculation has the promise being to keep her offspring safe. Why would she be so concerned about the child if he/she was a product of a forced marriage and by extension rape?




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quikah

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2003
4,086
664
126
Don't need spoilers in this thread IMO.

Why would she be concerned about a product of forced marraige/rape? Why not, it is still her son. Why wasn't she concerned that thousands of people were dying (including her father and bother) because she supposedly ran off to marry Rhaegar?

It can't be that simple, if it is I will be sorely disappointed. There has to be more to it.
 
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blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
8,679
502
126
It's not a done deal even if it is a good theory.

I'm sure before it's all said and done they'll probably play with that more to screw with people.



I'm leaning toward it's more likely to be the explanation to all of Neds weird recollections of a promise made to his sister just before she died and a message he wanted to send while in jail. He asked for a parchment and messenger bird but then changed his mind when Varys stated that he could not guarantee the confidentiality of any message.

And the stories that Jojen and Meera tell about a young Ned, along with his brothers and sister at a tourney before the rebellion.


However, given all that I don't think any of that means anything in regards to who finally sits on the Iron Throne if it actually still exists to be won by the end.


As we know Mr. Martin likes to upend tropes and it could be more effective to have a common fantasy plot line be true but then do something rather perverse and unexpected with it.


e2a

http://collider.com/game-of-thrones-season-3-4-george-r-r-martin-interview/

here is an interesting interview. George R.R. Martin recalls meeting the show producers David Benioff and Dan Weiss and how he asked them questions to make sure they actually paid attention while reading the books.

One of the questions he asked was "Who is Jon Snow's mother?"
If they had read it and accepted the on the surface answer they would have just said Wylla. As Ned says to Robert that's who he slept with during the war. However the producers recall giving Mr. Martin a more "shocking" answer to which George responded a smile to let them know that the shocking answer was the right one.

Of course R+L=J isn't the only theory about Jon's mother (and it might not be the answer the producers gave) but it is an intriguing theory about the answer to who Jon's mother is.



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Newbian

Lifer
Aug 24, 2008
24,783
845
126
Just watched the classic american movie "Last Action Hero" and saw our tywin being the villain yet again.
 

Gooberlx2

Lifer
May 4, 2001
15,381
6
91
Heh, I swear they tease us bookreaders into thinking Coldhands might show up. Rast running away, cold/snowy/windy, crows cawing...will Rast be skewered by a dead man on an elk? Nope...Ghost.
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
Heh, I swear they tease us bookreaders into thinking Coldhands might show up. Rast running away, cold/snowy/windy, crows cawing...will Rast be skewered by a dead man on an elk? Nope...Ghost.

I'm okay with Coldhands being written out, but Jorah and Tyrion looking less and less likely is going to really piss me off. =(
 

dainthomas

Lifer
Dec 7, 2004
14,617
3,472
136
Heh, I swear they tease us bookreaders into thinking Coldhands might show up. Rast running away, cold/snowy/windy, crows cawing...will Rast be skewered by a dead man on an elk? Nope...Ghost.

Exactly what I was hoping for. Although it would confuse the hell out of show watchers.
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
Exactly what I was hoping for. Although it would confuse the hell out of show watchers.

They are simpletons, so fuck them! And, even if it confused them, him showing up to protect Bran would make sense. I mean, he is able to control the minds of people and is being called by a giant tree to find a 3 eyed crow. A dead man protecting him isn't exactly far out there, especially if he is as important as he is being told.
 

BladeVenom

Lifer
Jun 2, 2005
13,540
16
0
Casterly Rock has run out of gold. Do you think that's a spoiler, or just something they made up for the show?
 

MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
38,751
3,068
121
Heh, I swear they tease us bookreaders into thinking Coldhands might show up. Rast running away, cold/snowy/windy, crows cawing...will Rast be skewered by a dead man on an elk? Nope...Ghost.
I'm loving the things they are doing, I still have a gut feeling he'll show up when they move North.
 

quikah

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2003
4,086
664
126
Um, wow, who wants to berate zin for spoiling GoT with his 24 reference.

Don't of course saying something would be a spoiler. Heres hoping lady stoneheart is in.
 
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smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
I'm loving the things they are doing, I still have a gut feeling he'll show up when they move North.

I have a feeling they don't want to introduce him yet, to keep the Bran story interesting later on. A cripple being carried through the woods isn't exactly great TV.


I like where they are going with Arya, even if it is a lot different than the books. Her story was always my favorite.
 
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