A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones - HERE BE SPOILERS

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smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
Geez, I just get done praising the quality of this thread when the quality goes way down.
Darn, and I had to go and report a certain member......

techs, don't be upset! Arya isn't really blind and Dany just ran into the former blood rider of Drogo!

Oh, and Bran turns into a tree.
 

blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
8,662
492
126
techs, don't be upset! Arya isn't really blind and Dany just ran into the former blood rider of Drogo!

oh boy.... also "I'm reporting a certain someone after coming into the spoiler thread... after spending months talking about how I don't want spoilers..."

Really? definition of WTF?!

but yeah Arya is really blind
but don't worry it's a form of Faceless man super secret squirrel ninja training

...
 
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Homerboy

Lifer
Mar 1, 2000
30,856
4,974
126
Finally watched the finale. Talk about squeezing 10lbs of shit in a 5lb bag. Everything was way too rushed. It's like they realized "Shit, we have 6 major things to do and we only have 1 episode left!! Let's cram em all in!!!"

I wasn't impressed with any of the story lines or how they were fleshed out. I'm definitely going to re-read the book now to get myself more pissed off about it.
 

dainthomas

Lifer
Dec 7, 2004
14,616
3,471
136
Finally watched the finale. Talk about squeezing 10lbs of shit in a 5lb bag. Everything was way too rushed. It's like they realized "Shit, we have 6 major things to do and we only have 1 episode left!! Let's cram em all in!!!"

I wasn't impressed with any of the story lines or how they were fleshed out. I'm definitely going to re-read the book now to get myself more pissed off about it.

Me too, the show writers have botched everything so badly I need to go re-read 4 and 5 to get everything straight in my head.

And eff them for no Aegon.
 

blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
8,662
492
126
Because of what it is? Or because it contains like 5 frames over 3 secs?

I sort of like this one....

It describes a sensible persons reactions to certain events...





As far as complaints about the show goes I wish that the show-runners asked for and that HBO permitted an extra 2 or 3 extra episodes this season to allow a bit more exposition to make the stabbing of Jon Snow a bit less motivated by butt-hurt as Loki8481 noted and more motivated by you know actual reasons.

I really want to know if there is a chance of a Clegane-Bowl as we did not see the Hound die on screen and one of the casting calls mentioned in earlier posts could be match the religious leader in the books who may have saved the Hound.

They don't need Brienne to actually meet that possible in the show character; since the show unlike the books is not limited by the one character's PoV represented in each chapter.





That Clegane-Bowl fan theory is one I do hope happens since the tourney in the first season where Sandor saved Ser Loras from an enraged Mountain hints at a great (if done well on screen) fight and it would be fitting that they actually fight to the death given their history as kids and the state of unGregor in the show now. unGregor's obliteration if it turns out that way may be a mercy.

In the book chapter for that encounter Ned was the PoV and he noted that the Mountain was trying to land harmful blows on his brother while The Hound was pulling blows from (if I recall correctly) the Mountain's unprotected head. So it could be inferred that while Sandor has a certain anger over having half is face burned off he isn't without a sense of morality where his brother is concerned..

I found the text from the Ned chapter...

The silence went on and on, so long that she began to grow afraid once more, but she was afraid for him now, not for herself. She found his massive shoulder with her hand. "He was no true knight," she whispered to him.

The Hound threw back his head and roared. Sansa stumbled back, away from him, but he caught her arm. "No," he growled at her, "no, little bird, he was no true knight."...

But as Gregor lifted his sword for the killing blow, a rasping voice warned, "Leave him be," and a steel-clad hand wrenched him away from the boy.

The Mountain pivoted in wordless fury, swinging his longsword in a killing arc with all his massive strength behind it, but the Hound caught the blow and turned it, and for what seemed an eternity the two brothers stood hammering at each other as a dazed Loras Tyrell was helped to safety. Thrice Ned saw Ser Gregor aim savage blows at the hounds-head helmet, yet not once did Sandor send a cut at his brother's unprotected face...

~snip~

"Is the Hound the champion now?" Sansa asked Ned.

"No," he told her. "There will be one final joust, between the Hound and the Knight of Flowers."

But Sansa had the right of it after all. A few moments later Ser Loras Tyrell walked back onto the field in a simple linen doublet and said to Sandor Clegane, "I owe you my life. The day is yours, ser."

"I am no ser," the Hound replied, but he took the victory, and the champion's purse, and, for perhaps the first time in his life, the love of the commons.


*e2a* I hope this fan theory also turns out to be true... since we also didn't see him die "on screen" although it is heavily implied... but it might be a face of the faceless man.





....
 
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MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
38,751
3,068
121
Gloating about getting someone getting an infraction is also one from my past experience, but why pursue it.

Geez, I just get done praising the quality of this thread when the quality goes way down.
Darn, and I had to go and report a certain member......
 

GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,297
2,001
126
I still suspect Syrio Forel will show up again eventually, he was her dancing master and I suspect he was a Faceless Man to begin with some what, being from Bravos and all.

I suspect Syrio is alive, a lot of clues suggest it. However, I don't think he's a Faceless Man. Perhaps he contacted Jaqen H'ghar when he disappeared.

I suspect Sandor is alive, also a bunch of clues.

And I suspect Jon Snow will be alive too. Very convenient to have a priestess of a god that raises the dead show up right before he gets shish-kebob-ed. Also convenient is that his oath to the Nights Watch is for life. It's fulfilled when he dies, so if Melisandre gives him the Berric Dondarrion treatment he would arise a free man and would then be able to go south and play a part in the action down that way.
 

blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
8,662
492
126
It's fulfilled when he dies, so if Melisandre gives him the Berric Dondarrion treatment he would arise a free man and would then be able to go south and play a part in the action down that way.

In that hypothetical situation I doubt he would go to the south because the Others are still a great threat and even though he'd theoretically not be bound by the Oath of the NW anymore it's hard to think that'd he'd just forget about the threat of the Others.


....
 

GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,297
2,001
126
In that hypothetical situation I doubt he would go to the south because the Others are still a great threat and even though he'd theoretically not be bound by the Oath of the NW anymore it's hard to think that'd he'd just forget about the threat of the Others.


....

He gonna grab a sword and try to do it himself? He doesn't have the backing of the Nights Watch, Stannis has no army left to rally and it's been made abundantly clear on thousands of occasions that nobody except Mance could unite the Wildlings. So don't expect him to give a rousing speech and convince them to fight for him.

Which does raise the question of what exactly he will do if he survives the stabbing. It's not like he has a lot of options or potential allies. Maybe he finds Sansa, learns that Bran and Rickon are alive and goes north to find them and join whatever it is they're doing? I don't believe he'd dead, but it's really hard to see how he can get back into the game.
 
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blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
8,662
492
126
Tormund trusted him. Perhaps Tormund would be wary of a revived Jon Snow but if that doesn't freak out the Wildlings they'd probably still be game to keep the Others from getting to the other side of the wall... especially after seeing what happened at Hardhome.

I mean let's check out the options here... yeah Jon Snow is a bit dense at times... hence his stabbing...

But I just have to ask do you really think he'd be forget the wall get to the South pull some shenanigans and perhaps if he survived them... end up looking at a host of Others and their undead army that is not just comprised of the zombies from Hardhome but from the rest of the Seven Kingdoms North of Kings landing (that they conquered on their own way South) and be saying... "Shit... maybe I should've rallied the Wildlings at the Wall to fight the Others instead of thinking their army wouldn't have gotten massively larger... Ygritte was right I know fucking Nothing."

I mean damn if he is revived and says "Screw it all I'm going South" he's dumber than Hodor.


....
 
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GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,297
2,001
126
Tormund trusted him. Perhaps Tormund would be wary of a revived Jon Snow but if that doesn't freak out the Wildlings they'd probably still be game to keep the Others from getting to the other side of the wall... especially after seeing what happened at Hardhome.

I mean let's check out the options here... yeah Jon Snow is a bit dense at times... hence his stabbing...

But I just have to ask do you really think he'd be forget the wall get to the South pull some shenanigans and perhaps if he survived them... end up looking at a host of Others and their undead army that is not just comprised of the zombies from Hardhome but from the rest of the Seven Kingdoms North of Kings landing (that they conquered on their own way South) and be saying... "Shit... maybe I should've rallied the Wildlings at the Wall to fight the Others instead of thinking their army wouldn't have gotten massively larger... Ygritte was right I know fucking Nothing."

I mean damn if he is revived and says "Screw it all I'm going South" he's dumber than Hodor.


....


And again, what reason does he have to go north and what army will back him? He might recognize the Others and the undead army as the biggest threat, but in his current situation he has no way to do anything about it.

But, if he goes south he can run into Sansa and that opens things up. She, as is mentioned in every episode, is the key to the north. He could use her to rally the rest of the north to cleanse Winterfell of the Boltons and unite the north against the Others. And, she is also one of the few to know that Bran and Rickon are alive. After rescuing Sansa and reclaiming Winterfell he goes north to find Bran and since he's with the Children of the Forest that gives Jon the kind of powerbase he needs to start thinking about the Others. The COTF and men united to beat back the Others last time, so it's not a big stretch to think of them being the missing piece of the puzzle to give men the power to fight the undead legions this time around.
 

blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
8,662
492
126
I think the Wildlings would still fight with him to protect the South from the Wall. He knows that regardless of the fact that he can't trust the NW anymore to fight with him that if the Others get past the wall that's pretty much an extinction level event for the living.

And unless Bran speaks through him through the Weirwood network he'd have no idea the CotF are working against the Others.


Given the above I don't see him traveling South when the Others aren't taken care of... if ever.

Every Stark who went South since the Rebellion of Robert Baratheon has ended up in dire straights or even dead.


....
 

MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
38,751
3,068
121
And I suspect Jon Snow will be alive too. Very convenient to have a priestess of a god that raises the dead show up right before he gets shish-kebob-ed. Also convenient is that his oath to the Nights Watch is for life. It's fulfilled when he dies, so if Melisandre gives him the Berric Dondarrion treatment he would arise a free man and would then be able to go south and play a part in the action down that way.

:thumbsup::thumbsup:
 

GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,297
2,001
126
I think the Wildlings would still fight with him to protect the South from the Wall. He knows that regardless of the fact that he can't trust the NW anymore to fight with him that if the Others get past the wall that's pretty much an extinction level event for the living.

And unless Bran speaks through him through the Weirwood network he'd have no idea the CotF are working against the Others.


Given the above I don't see him traveling South when the Others aren't taken care of... if ever.

Every Stark who went South since the Rebellion of Robert Baratheon has ended up in dire straights or even dead.


....


It's like talking to a weirwood tree. HE CAN"T DO ANYTHING ABOUT THE OTHERS NOW. The Wildlings don't want to fight, they want to escape, Jon can't unite them and their numbers were decimated by the massacre at HardHome. Forget the wildlings, they're not going to be the key.

But, if Melisandre points Jon south...

He meets Sansa
He uses Sansa to unite the north.
The north retake Winterfell.
Suddenly he's got an army.
He goes in search of Bran because Sansa knows Bran is alive.
Bran uses his growing powers to communicate with Jon, maybe teaches him the finer points of warg-ing.
The re-united Northern armies join with the COTF and together they're strong enough to think about maybe standing up to the Others.

That works. It might not be what happens, but it's plausible and it fits the existing storyline. Your idea doesn't work. It's not even close to plausible. Jon can't do jack-shit about the others without an army and he can't find one by going north now. He'd have to go south first, then and only then could he amass the kind of power that would allow him to think about going north again.
 

blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
8,662
492
126
It's like talking to a weirwood tree. HE CAN"T DO ANYTHING ABOUT THE OTHERS NOW. The Wildlings don't want to fight, they want to escape, Jon can't unite them and their numbers were decimated by the massacre at HardHome. Forget the wildlings, they're not going to be the key.

But, if Melisandre points Jon south...

He meets Sansa
He uses Sansa to unite the north.
The north retake Winterfell.
Suddenly he's got an army.
He goes in search of Bran because Sansa knows Bran is alive.
Bran uses his growing powers to communicate with Jon, maybe teaches him the finer points of warg-ing.
The re-united Northern armies join with the COTF and together they're strong enough to think about maybe standing up to the Others.

That works. It might not be what happens, but it's plausible and it fits the existing storyline. Your idea doesn't work. It's not even close to plausible. Jon can't do jack-shit about the others without an army and he can't find one by going north now. He'd have to go south first, then and only then could he amass the kind of power that would allow him to think about going north again.

Okay... I thought you meant all the way South not just to Winterfell where Sansa is still in the vicinity.

Well, in the book version of the story Jon was leaving the Wall to intercept Ramsey Bolton before all hell broke lose when Wun Wun decided to treat Ser Patrik(?) like a bad dollie and tear his arm off after bad dollie decided it was a good idea to do a frontal assault on a giant....

then he got stabbed.

So that is plausible considering the path Jon was about to take.

And here I was thinking why would he go South South (all the way to King's Landing), when the Others would be up to all sorts of shens in the meantime.



.....
 

sactoking

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2007
7,547
2,759
136
Melissandre can't resurrect Jon as far as we know. I the show thread there's all sorts of speculation about it because they're missing the context, but in the books there's an early Melissandre chapter where she says she cannot do what Thoros does, the Lord of Light has not blessed her with that ability.

Given that the books do a much better job of portraying that the return of magic coincides with the return of dragons and the manifestation of magic is still fickle (Melissandre, Thoros, Moqorro and the red priest in Volantis all have different abilities that none of the others can replicate) to me it's safe to say that Melissandre will be reviving nobody.
 

GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,297
2,001
126
Melissandre can't resurrect Jon as far as we know. I the show thread there's all sorts of speculation about it because they're missing the context, but in the books there's an early Melissandre chapter where she says she cannot do what Thoros does, the Lord of Light has not blessed her with that ability.

Given that the books do a much better job of portraying that the return of magic coincides with the return of dragons and the manifestation of magic is still fickle (Melissandre, Thoros, Moqorro and the red priest in Volantis all have different abilities that none of the others can replicate) to me it's safe to say that Melissandre will be reviving nobody.


There was a scene between Melissandre and Thoros in the show that supposedly doesn't take place in the books. Melisandre meets the Brotherhood without Banners and finds out that Thoros resurrected Berric six times. She claims that he should not have that sort of power and Thoros says he has no power. He just asks and R'hllor chooses whether or not to grant new life to Berric. To me it's safe to say that scene was added for a reason, they wouldn't create it out of thin air if something important isn't said/done. While Melisandre may or may not resurrect Jon that single conversation seems to foreshadow that she could if she merely asked and R'hllor approved.
 

Guurn

Senior member
Dec 29, 2012
319
30
91
Everything just seems to dovetail too nicely. Jons lineage is pretty obvious at this point and his dying will make it more obvious. The wildlings burn bodies, he should be immune to fire and we have a fire priestess right there. Mother of dragons moment part two, viola.

If I were to really speculate long term for him I'd say that since Targarians (sp?) tend to marry brother and sister...
 

Homerboy

Lifer
Mar 1, 2000
30,856
4,974
126
I think it's pretty clear that the WW etc that are north of the wall will eventually face off with Daenerys and her dragons -- you know... "A Song of Fire and Ice". I think odds are that Jon will be with her if R+L=J is true. 3rd head of the dragon is Tyrion if that theory is true as well.

I assume somehow Sansa and Reek will end up rallying somebody (who I have no clue) to re-take Winterfell and the north. That seems to be her destiny. Remember how when she was young, she hated Winterfell and the North? Now she will be the one to save it.

Bran... I dunno. He, along with the children of the forest will somehow end up being the eyes and ears of the "Fire" side of the battle or something.

Arya? I have no idea where her story ends up.

Rikkon? Honestly who cares. He's been out of the picture so long, if they try to reintroduce him and give him some sort of "Hey! This is what I've been doing and now I'm powerful" or something like that filler story... I'll stop reading.

Hound vs Mountain in a deathmatch to end all deathmatches. That's all that matters at this point. I think Arya has something to do with this somehow too?
 

dainthomas

Lifer
Dec 7, 2004
14,616
3,471
136
If I were to really speculate long term for him I'd say that since Targarians (sp?) tend to marry brother and sister...

Well, she'd actually be his aunt. But that should be even less of a problem.

All this is assuming he comes back. That damn book better come out before next season.
 

Homerboy

Lifer
Mar 1, 2000
30,856
4,974
126
Everything just seems to dovetail too nicely. Jons lineage is pretty obvious at this point and his dying will make it more obvious. The wildlings burn bodies, he should be immune to fire and we have a fire priestess right there. Mother of dragons moment part two, viola.

If I were to really speculate long term for him I'd say that since Targarians (sp?) tend to marry brother and sister...

Sorry, but Jon has already proven he is not immune to fire. If you recall he burned his hand as part of the NW.
 
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