A Third of Valve is Now Working on VR and the Next Generation of Headsets

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Armsdealer

Member
May 10, 2016
181
9
36
VR as a technology has been a gimmick in the past because real VR which *requires* a high resolution screen being rendered at a high framerate in real time wasn't possible.

Now we've hit that threshold. We're in the first generation of headset ergonomics, and it's only going to get better from here.

I see VR headsets being only somewhat more cumbersome than sunglasses in 5-10 years and excellent hand movement recognition software replacing mouse and keyboard as input methods. When you really stop and consider how much more intuitive, convenient, and portable it is for computing to work in this way, you'll come to the conclusion that computing has to and will go the direction of vr/ar.

It's no different than side scrolled games leading to 3d games.
 
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HeXen

Diamond Member
Dec 13, 2009
7,832
38
91
Definitely not. You really have to try it to understand why that won't work.

You are actually standing in the virtual environment physically dodging bullets / arrows/ whatever. You might be shooting at one enemy with a gun in one hand and looking in the direction you're shooting so to aim, while you're blocking bullets with the other hand with a shield in a direction you're not looking, while simultaneously physically dodging bullets coming from a third enemy.

Get it? (and yes it is cool as **** and it makes you feel like a badass)

Watch a video of someone playing hover junkers, space pirate trainer, or holopoint on youtube.

In other games (way less fun in my opinion) that are just walking around / solving puzzle games, you can probably just do it all sitting down, and there is a heightened sense of immersion.

Well the PSVR manages all games to be seated so sounds like I'll have to go that route.

You should try motion controls and roomscale before writing them off. Even sitting games can benefit from 'waving your arms around'. Top down strategy games are an obvious one where you could play on a virtual table and use controllers to move units, place buildings, etc.

Roomscale VR is not the thing to do when you want to zone out and kill 6 hours, but for me it is definitely the most pure fun I've had from gaming in a very long time. 45 minutes to an hour a day is all I really want from that kind of VR.

I didnt say anything about moving my arms around, I"m speaking specifically about room scale. No matter how epic you think it is, or even if I think it is, I'm still not going to do it. I'm not interested in playing my games like that. I also think it's really fun to ride a snowmobile at over 100mph, but I never wanted to buy my own just to do that nor would I if I had one but rare occasion maybe. Same with room scale, I'd maybe do it once in a while but to to play seriously for some 4 hours or whatever...hell no.
 
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sxr7171

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2002
5,079
40
91
I went and bought a GearVR while I was on vacation. I quite like it, but I think it's my limit. I'm not interested in "room scale" or physical movement games. I really do think the "YOU ARE THERE"/telepresence feature is amazing, but I have no interest in moving around or waving my arms to play games. Even having to stand up and spin in place for Affected: The Manor is about the max I'm willing to do.

What I'm drooling for is to strap on my HMD and be inside a race car, a fighter jet, or a giant stompy mech (along with the proper wheel/pedals or joystick setup).

Project cars already does the race car thing.

As a Vive owner I've played that thing and never even gotten off my chair. Not all games work that way but it's surprising how many do. Also room scale IMHO is absolutely needed just to track the controllers properly and that is a huge part of most games.
 

pj-

Senior member
May 5, 2015
481
249
116
I didnt say anything about moving my arms around, I"m speaking specifically about room scale. No matter how epic you think it is, or even if I think it is, I'm still not going to do it. I'm not interested in playing my games like that. I also think it's really fun to ride a snowmobile at over 100mph, but I never wanted to buy my own just to do that nor would I if I had one but rare occasion maybe. Same with room scale, I'd maybe do it once in a while but to to play seriously for some 4 hours or whatever...hell no.

It's partially my fault for not quoting the full post but I don't know why you assumed I was talking to you when your last post was 14 hours and 8 posts before mine. I was talking to Raduque, who posted directly above me and actually used the phrase "waving my arms".

Also you are saying exactly what I said in the post you quoted. I won't be playing roomscale games for many hours at a time either, if for no other reason than it is physically exhausting.
 

Thala

Golden Member
Nov 12, 2014
1,355
653
136
Well the PSVR manages all games to be seated so sounds like I'll have to go that route.

You are drawing the completely wrong conclusion. If all PSVR games can be played seated, it just means that you have a much smaller games library, because room-scale games wont be available for PSVR, while all kind of games can run on the Vive. Why would you restrict yourself already with your purchase decision?

Nice thing with Vive is, that you can sit down anywhere within your room-scale boundaries and just start playing a seated game. Dont have to move a camera in front of me...
 
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cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,535
13,109
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You won't regret the purchase for even a second.

The idea that people are paying for 4k monitors for what is effectively the SAME GAME and SAME EXPERIENCE as 1080p blows my mind. Does it really affect your enjoyment of the game *that* much? Not only that, we've been playing the same games for 20 years. Honestly, when it comes to FPS, I still go back to QuakeLive because I still think iD perfected the genre then, and nobody has done better yet.

The existing game types won't work in VR - it is genuinely a new medium with new gameplay types, and it is *finally* a breath of fresh air in gaming.

picking it up in a few hours now .. will report back over the weekend with the extend of broken limbs and collateral damages.
 

pj-

Senior member
May 5, 2015
481
249
116
You are drawing the completely wrong conclusion. If all PSVR games can be played seated, it just means that you have a much smaller games library, because room-scale games wont be available for PSVR, while all kind of games can run on the Vive. Why would you restrict yourself already with your purchase decision?

Nice thing with Vive is, that you can sit down anywhere within your room-scale boundaries and just start playing a seated game. Dont have to move a camera in front of me...

My computer is outside my boundaries by a few feet and I'm still able to sit down and NOT check out VR porn without reconfiguring my setup. I'm surprised how well it tracks there considering the only base station that can see me is 4m+ away and at about 8 o'clock relative to the direction im facing.
 

Raduque

Lifer
Aug 22, 2004
13,141
138
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You are drawing the completely wrong conclusion. If all PSVR games can be played seated, it just means that you have a much smaller games library, because room-scale games wont be available for PSVR, while all kind of games can run on the Vive. Why would you restrict yourself already with your purchase decision?

I know you were talking to Hexen, but I'm gonna just throw this out there, because he and I think the same way:

I'm not going to be playing room-scale games, because i'm not interested in moving around that much while playing games.

Were I going to buy a PSVR, whether or not it supported room-scale is irrelevant, because I'm not going to be playing those games even if it did.

I'm only interested in playing cockpit/in-vehicle style games with it. Maybe walking simulators where the HMD basically replaces the mouse for looking.
 

Qwertilot

Golden Member
Nov 28, 2013
1,604
257
126
That final category is (sadly perhaps) seemingly a bit problematic if played with a controller. Body expects to be well, walking

Teleporting and/or treadmills long term perhaps. Or maybe they'll find some other solution - not that good vr based treadmills won't do quite well.
 

poofyhairguy

Lifer
Nov 20, 2005
14,612
318
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I am excited about VR, even at current prices, but here is what I need to jump in:

1. One of the two needs to die. Thanks to exclusive content one of the two will be the VR betamax in a few years and I don't want to either waste my money or try to guess which one. The Vive seems better today, but Oculus has a better backer. You can't even guess which one will win.

2. No pentile screens, they are garbage.
 

Raduque

Lifer
Aug 22, 2004
13,141
138
106
That final category is (sadly perhaps) seemingly a bit problematic if played with a controller. Body expects to be well, walking

Teleporting and/or treadmills long term perhaps. Or maybe they'll find some other solution - not that good vr based treadmills won't do quite well.

I didn't have a problem with the disconnect in Affected: The Manor on my GearVR. I was even sitting for part of it.
 

Thala

Golden Member
Nov 12, 2014
1,355
653
136
My computer is outside my boundaries by a few feet and I'm still able to sit down and NOT check out VR porn without reconfiguring my setup. I'm surprised how well it tracks there considering the only base station that can see me is 4m+ away and at about 8 o'clock relative to the direction im facing.

Right. I was not quite precise. My couch for instance is outside room-scale boundaries but still perfectly within tracking area. Its so convenient to sit down where you like and start a seated game. Since i was outside the room-scale boundaries it was displaying the chaperone all the time, so i disabled it

Were I going to buy a PSVR, whether or not it supported room-scale is irrelevant, because I'm not going to be playing those games even if it did.

Thats perfectly fine. I was just pointing out that having room-scale tracking system is not a disadvantage and it still might be a advantage for the purely sitting experience as you are free where to sit down.
Remember that the assessment i was replying to was:
HeXen said:
Well the PSVR manages all games to be seated so sounds like I'll have to go that route.
My argument is, that the conclusion that one "has to go that route" is just wrong. Because, frankly, "managing all games to be seated" means skipping games which requires room-scale in the first place.
 
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Headfoot

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2008
4,444
641
126
Well the PSVR manages all games to be seated so sounds like I'll have to go that route.

If you want to stay seated that certainly doesn't mean PSVR is the only option... Oculus is seated for now, and plenty of the lesser known competing headsets like the Razer one are seated / non-room space.

I cant imagine PSVR will be all that great unless its limited only to PS4 Neo since it just lacks the grunt to push the FPS needed with any modern level of graphics
 

WhiteNoise

Golden Member
Jun 22, 2016
1,075
184
106
Which VR set would be best if I don't want to move around the room. I'm starting to get a little interested in this but I would prefer one that I just chill in my seat and play games.
 

Headfoot

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2008
4,444
641
126
Probably Oculus at this point but a lot of folks have stopped buying Oculus because of their approach to Oculus VR exclusives
 

Atreidin

Senior member
Mar 31, 2011
464
27
86
This has actually been a pretty common suggestion, the idea that Valve was waiting to use Half-Life 3 as the big launch title for VR to push adoption. Of course, similar scenarios have been suggested for other technologies, like Source 2, so take it with a grain of salt. Or, like, an entire cavern of salt.

I think that is just an excuse. From what I have read about their weird corporate structure, it sounds like it makes it easy for projects to get started and then abandoned if enough people lose interest in it. If there is a new game, I don't think it's because of some grand plan, it would be because VR was a catalyst to raise enough interest to actually do something.
 

topmounter

Member
Aug 3, 2010
194
18
81
VR as a technology has been a gimmick in the past because real VR which *requires* a high resolution screen being rendered at a high framerate in real time wasn't possible.

Now we've hit that threshold. We're in the first generation of headset ergonomics, and it's only going to get better from here.

I see VR headsets being only somewhat more cumbersome than sunglasses in 5-10 years and excellent hand movement recognition software replacing mouse and keyboard as input methods. When you really stop and consider how much more intuitive, convenient, and portable it is for computing to work in this way, you'll come to the conclusion that computing has to and will go the direction of vr/ar.

It's no different than side scrolled games leading to 3d games.

It's definitely early days and there is a lot still to figure out. I do see VR and non-VR as two separate, but parallel paths. A bit like Hollywood movies and AAA games, rather than one altogether replacing the other.

I do hope that the VR industry is paying attention to the lessons learned by the Wii, Xbox Connect and CE 3DTV, because there are some similarities with regards to what people are willing to accept or not accept on a long-term basis when it comes to gaming (especially in a communal living room environment).

It is good to see that they are continuing to develop the hardware, having demo'd the Rift and Vive at CES and NAB this year, a wireless, light-weight, high-resolution headset w/ access to a library of AAA game titles with both lean-back and lean-forward control modes would go along way to getting me to open up my wallet for VR.
 
Aug 11, 2008
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642
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I know you were talking to Hexen, but I'm gonna just throw this out there, because he and I think the same way:

I'm not going to be playing room-scale games, because i'm not interested in moving around that much while playing games.

Were I going to buy a PSVR, whether or not it supported room-scale is irrelevant, because I'm not going to be playing those games even if it did.

I'm only interested in playing cockpit/in-vehicle style games with it. Maybe walking simulators where the HMD basically replaces the mouse for looking.

Yea, this is pretty much my feeling. I would really like an immersive experience like a 3D movie or for instance an amusement park ride where you seem to be moving but are in your seats all the time, but with a way to interact with the screen as well. I am not interested in room scale games either. Sorry, no offense meant to anyone, but I am an older person, and although I am in pretty good shape and could do it physically, it would just feel too weird jumping around in a darkened room with a headset on pretending to use a sword or light saber or gun.
 

Thala

Golden Member
Nov 12, 2014
1,355
653
136
Probably Oculus at this point but a lot of folks have stopped buying Oculus because of their approach to Oculus VR exclusives

This and the fact that Facebook is controlling it.
 

Armsdealer

Member
May 10, 2016
181
9
36
This and the fact that Facebook is controlling it.

It's going to be interesting to see how this plays out. Right now it seems like just an Oculus vs Vive thing, but I think as more and more steam vr hardware shows up (eg osvr) it's really going to turn into an Oculus vs everyone else thing, and Oculus didn't have a sufficiently strong launch for them to win that fight, and in addition, Oculus store can't just show up out of nowhere and be a stronger platform than steam.

That said, we have seen shady corporate tactics that are detrimental to the consumer pay off in other industries (hint hint)
 
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