A thought on the Challenger and the state of the auto industry.

[Demon-Xanth]

When the Challenger was originally released, it was released right as insurance premiums, emissions, and gas mileage concerns popped up, at which point the top engines got dropped or choked and it got canned only a short time later.

...did Dodge manage to do a repeat performance with the new one given the new CAFE requirements and the 13-18MPG that it gets? I think when Dodge gets set to re-re-release the car, they need to do it in 2040 instead of 2048. :/

 

[The Boston Dangler]

an american car company behind the times? shocking!

 

[Arkaign]

There's just no excuse for the Challenger. Dodge is officially run by fricking idiots.

Lets count some recent mistakes, add some to the list if you wish :

(1)- Killing the iconic Viper, the originator of the modern American Muscle Supercar era. A status symbol that can only do good things for their image. Poor fuel economy hurting their CAFE rating? Drop production numbers back to the point where it doesn't make much of an impact.

(2)- Introducing a fatass car with middling performance (at best) at an insane price.

(3)- Introducing a car that has the fuel economy of cars from 30 years ago.

(4)- Introducing a car with style inspired by people who thought Saturday night fever was the pinnacle of music history. Oh, but let's throw a 90s 240SX rear end on it for the pure weirdness factor.

(5)- Making the already bad (but at least decent-looking) Avenger into a hideously awful blob of below average garbage.

(6)- Making everything in their lineup look like it was inspired by the design of small municipal buildings, with similarly total disregard to the factors of aerodynamics.

(7)- BLARGH!!! Pretty much anyone here in the Garage could do a 1,000x better job of running Dodge than the f*cking idiots in charge there, as they seem dead-set on running it into the ground.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Arkaign
There's just no excuse for the Challenger. Dodge is officially run by fricking idiots.

Lets count some recent mistakes, add some to the list if you wish :

(1)- Killing the iconic Viper, the originator of the modern American Muscle Supercar era. A status symbol that can only do good things for their image. Poor fuel economy hurting their CAFE rating? Drop production numbers back to the point where it doesn't make much of an impact.

(2)- Introducing a fatass car with middling performance (at best) at an insane price.

(3)- Introducing a car that has the fuel economy of cars from 30 years ago.

(4)- Introducing a car with style inspired by people who thought Saturday night fever was the pinnacle of music history. Oh, but let's throw a 90s 240SX rear end on it for the pure weirdness factor.

(5)- Making the already bad (but at least decent-looking) Avenger into a hideously awful blob of below average garbage.

(6)- Making everything in their lineup look like it was inspired by the design of small municipal buildings, with similarly total disregard to the factors of aerodynamics.

(7)- BLARGH!!! Pretty much anyone here in the Garage could do a 1,000x better job of running Dodge than the f*cking idiots in charge there, as they seem dead-set on running it into the ground.

to be fair, it was the old idiots in charge of dodge that gave us the new avenger, rather than the current idiots in charge.

and as the sunk costs for the challenger are already, well, sunk, that the challenger can probably deliver a positive cash flow for a while before cerberus (or whoever they sell dodge to) axes it is good for cerberus.

 

[radioouman]

Each of the auto manufacturers has a personality. If you ever have the opportunity to work with the folks at Chrysler, they appear to be working in a fantasy land. They don't have any realization of what the market wants or needs. Unfortunately, the mentality that has been adopted there comes from management telling them how great their cars are and never telling them how bad they are. Right now, they are so full of themselves that they think that they can pull off a car like this, and it will be successful.

Part of what is feeding this mentality is the need to create a profit on their vehicles, so they scale back on the vehicles that don't make a large profit and try to sell the ones that will make a large profit. They are still stuck in the days when the Durango would pull in $10,000 profit per vehicle while the Neon pulled in $500... Those days are gone, but the Charger is one of those vehicles that would pull in a lot of profit per unit, yet Chrysler doesn't understand that they will never be able to sell at this at high enough volumes.

In the 1960s Chrysler would manufacturer tons of vehicles and for their sales reps to get the dealers to buy them. At the end of the month the reps would have to offer big incentives to get dealers to take them off their hands. Lee Iacocca fixed that situation in the 1980s so that they were only manufacturing what the dealers could sell. Now they are back to their old ways of manufacturing tons of cars and they are sitting in empty lots and farm fields in Michigan (I'm sure that there are other locations near other plants too). It seems like Chrysler can't get the idea of lean-manufacturing down, and they are always going to be the fat kid on the block.

 

[Arkaign]

The guys at Dodge need to look over at GM to see what can be done. I know GM is going though some financial adjustments on the business end of things, but their products have improved VASTLY and are selling at a good clip. They offer decent choices in every segment, including major challenges to the leaders in segments that they had basically been written off in before. Who would have recommended a Cadillac in say '93 against say a BMW? Not many people, their cars had become uninspiring and appealed only to old people who were basically brand/badge loyal. Now? They have killer vehicles that are absolutely of the modern age, competitively priced, and often offering features/performance unmatched by competitors. Ditto in every other segment. Who could have really recommended something like a Cavalier over a Civic or Corolla? Now, the Cobalt is worth looking at. Who could have really recommended a Lumina over Camry or Accord? Now the Malibu is a very decent choice.

Dodge? Are you listening?

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Originally posted by: Arkaign
The guys at Dodge need to look over at GM to see what can be done. I know GM is going though some financial adjustments on the business end of things, but their products have improved VASTLY and are selling at a good clip. They offer decent choices in every segment, including major challenges to the leaders in segments that they had basically been written off in before. Who would have recommended a Cadillac in say '93 against say a BMW? Not many people, their cars had become uninspiring and appealed only to old people who were basically brand/badge loyal. Now? They have killer vehicles that are absolutely of the modern age, competitively priced, and often offering features/performance unmatched by competitors. Ditto in every other segment. Who could have really recommended something like a Cavalier over a Civic or Corolla? Now, the Cobalt is worth looking at. Who could have really recommended a Lumina over Camry or Accord? Now the Malibu is a very decent choice.

Dodge? Are you listening?

I will say the Cobalt is worth looking at (I have an employee discount through GM so I looked), but even so the interior is too similar to Dodge's plasticy interiors. Both have cheap looking interiors. The Civic has just as much plastic sure, but it at least looks like its not all cheap plastic inside.

The Neon is so much better of a car then the Caliber. I have no use for that car. It is way to cheap feeling in materials and construction, not to mention you feel like you are driving a SUV type vehicle not a car thats only a few inches higher then the Neon. Dodge needs to wake up and realize their current lineup sucks.

 

[JulesMaximus]

I would have to agree. This car will sell well the first year but the entry level models will languish in sales quickly IMO and the car will have a run of maybe 3 years before it gets axed.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
I would have to agree. This car will sell well the first year but the entry level models will languish in sales quickly IMO and the car will have a run of maybe 3 years before it gets axed.

Sounds like Prophecy.

Only chance to salvage the thing would be :

V6 model with 20/29mpg ~250hp for $25k.

Midpower V8 Model with 18/25mpg ~320hp for $30k.

 

[MetalMat]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
I would have to agree. This car will sell well the first year but the entry level models will languish in sales quickly IMO and the car will have a run of maybe 3 years before it gets axed.

I agree, 4200+ lbs is wayyy too much for this car.

 

[PricklyPete]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
I would have to agree. This car will sell well the first year but the entry level models will languish in sales quickly IMO and the car will have a run of maybe 3 years before it gets axed.

Totally agreed. It reminds me of the Ford Thunderbird rehash...was popular with a few old babyboomers and retiries...but they people realized it was pretty much a worthless car and sales dropped out of the bottom.

 

[Dunbar]

You guys realize the car is basically a 2-door Charger/300C chassis with 4 inches less wheelbase? The 425HP engine has been available for a while in the SRT8 version of those cars and the Jeep Grand Cherokee. So I don't think the R&D for this car was all that expensive. Dodge has already said there will be V6 and regular V8 Hemi versions for 2009. The SRT8 version is a good image car to raise their media profile. But just like the Mustang they'll probably sell 20 V6 versions for every V8.

 

[BarneyFife]

I question if it will even have good sales in its first year considering how bad the economy is.

 

[thedarkwolf]

You will have to wait till it's second year to figure that out since they are making a very limited number for this year and every one of them will sale and quick.

 

[MetalMat]

Originally posted by: BarneyFife
I question if it will even have good sales in its first year considering how bad the economy is.

Its going to be good, but a little artificial. The second year when they release the other versions will be what you want to look at.

 

[Dunbar]

They've sold out of all of the 5500 SRT8's being produced in MY2008.

 

[destrekor]

Originally posted by: Dunbar
You guys realize the car is basically a 2-door Charger/300C chassis with 4 inches less wheelbase? The 425HP engine has been available for a while in the SRT8 version of those cars and the Jeep Grand Cherokee. So I don't think the R&D for this car was all that expensive. Dodge has already said there will be V6 and regular V8 Hemi versions for 2009. The SRT8 version is a good image car to raise their media profile. But just like the Mustang they'll probably sell 20 V6 versions for every V8.

that's exactly what's gonna happen. This is just the media frenzy of having a car that is similar in performance and styling to a classic. The lower performance, more wallet-friendly versions will hit later this year, and that's where the sales are and they know that.
However, rumor has it that for the 2010 year there could be two intros: convertible and HEMI 392 Crate engine. That 392 needs to be true, and be an advertised option from MOPAR. Bring back the muscle drag. That's exactly why I want this thing. I'd get a basic V8 model, and then in time drop a 392 in there.

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
I would have to agree. This car will sell well the first year but the entry level models will languish in sales quickly IMO and the car will have a run of maybe 3 years before it gets axed.

Sounds like Prophecy.

Only chance to salvage the thing would be :

V6 model with 20/29mpg ~250hp for $25k.

Midpower V8 Model with 18/25mpg ~320hp for $30k.

I think those prices are going to be right about what the lower end will see, except I am envisioning cheaper than $25k for the V6 model, possibly better fuel ratings too. At least, if Chrysler wants this to compete at all.

 

[destrekor]

Originally posted by: Dunbar
They've sold out of all of the 5500 SRT8's being produced in MY2008.

yea they sold out awhile ago. They're also filling up pre-orders for the 2009 model year vehicles. There is hot demand for these things. All the haters want to write that off. Not everyone is looking for fuel economy, not everyone is looking for light-weight racers. The same crowd that is looking to the more powerful Mustangs will undoubtedly at least look in Dodge's direction now, unless of course they have a scathing hatred for all things Chrysler/Dodge.