A war of self-defense

[ChicagoMaroon]

For over 20 years racist Islamic terrorists have been at war with America. Enough is enough.

Sept. 11, 2001: Terrorists hijack four American airliners. Two are flown into the World Trade Center, one into the Pentagon, and the last is taken down by heroic passengers over Pennsylvania. 3,000 innocent Americans are killed on this day. Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda responsible.

Oct. 12, 2000: Terrorist bombing kills 17 U.S. sailors aboard the USS Cole as it refueled in Yemen's port of Aden. Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda responsible.

Aug. 7, 1998: Car bombs explode outside U.S. embassies in Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, within minutes of each other, killing 224 people and wounding thousands. Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda responsible.

June 25, 1996: Truck bomb explodes outside the Khobar Towers in Dharan, Saudi Arabia, killing 19 American servicemen and wounding hundreds of other people. Members of a little-known Saudi militant group, Hezbollah, were indicted for the attack.

Nov. 13, 1995: Car bomb detonates at a U.S. military headquarters in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, killing five American service personnel.

Feb. 26, 1993: A bomb explodes in a parking garage below the World Trade Center in New York, killing six people and wounding more than 1,000. Six Islamic militants were convicted in the bombing and sentenced to life in prison.

Dec. 21, 1988: Pan Am Boeing 747 explodes over Lockerbie, Scotland, on a flight from London to New York, killing 270 people, including residents of the town. Two Libyans are on trial.

Sept. 5, 1986: Hijackers seize Pan Am jumbo jet carrying 358 people at Karachi airport. Twenty people killed when security forces storm the plane.

Oct. 8, 1985: Crippled American Jew Leon Klinghoffer is killed by Palestinian militants who had seized the Italian cruise liner Achille Lauro.

June 14, 1985: Shiite Muslim gunmen seize a TWA Boeing 727, forcing it to Beirut, Lebanon. They demand the release of 700 Arabs held by Israel. A U.S. Navy diver is killed and 39 Americans are held until they are released on July 1st.

Sept. 20, 1984: Car bomb at U.S. Embassy annex in east Beirut kills 16 and injures the ambassador.

Dec. 12, 1983: Shiite extremists set off car bombs in front of the U.S. embassy in Kuwait City, killing five people and wounding 86.

Oct. 23, 1983: Shiite suicide bombers blow up a U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut, killing 241 Marines.

April 18, 1983: Suicide car-bomber blows up U.S. Embassy in Beirut, killing 17 Americans.

Nov. 4, 1979: Islamic students storm U.S. Embassy in Tehran, Iran, holding 52 Americans hostage for 444 days.

 

[zer0burn]

its VERY TWO SIDED


1947-48: U.S. backs Palestine partition plan. Israel established. U.S. declines to press Israel to allow expelled Palestinians to return.



1949: CIA backs military coup deposing elected government of Syria.1



1953: CIA helps overthrow the democratically‑elected Mossadeq government in Iran (which had nationalized the British oil company) leading to a quarter‑century of repressive and dictatorial rule by the Shah, Mohammed Reza Pahlevi.



1956: U.S. cuts off promised funding for Aswan Dam in Egypt after Egypt receives Eastern bloc arms.



1956: Israel, Britain, and France invade Egypt. U.S. does not support invasion, but the involvement of its NATO allies severely diminishes Washington's reputation in the region.



1958: U.S. troops land in Lebanon to preserve "stability".



early 1960s: U.S. unsuccessfully attempts assassination of Iraqi leader, Abdul Karim Qassim.2



1963: U.S. supports coup by Iraqi Ba'ath party (soon to be headed by Saddam Hussein) and reportedly gives them names of communists to murder, which they do with vigor.3



1967‑: U.S. blocks any effort in the Security Council to enforce SC Resolution 242, calling for Israeli withdrawal from territories occupied in the 1967 war.



1970: Civil war between Jordan and PLO. Israel and U.S. discuss intervening on side of Jordan if Syria backs PLO.



1972: U.S. blocks Egyptian leader Anwar Sadat's efforts to reach a peace agreement with Israel.



1973: Airlifted U.S. military aid enables Israel to turn the tide in war with Syria and Egypt.



1973‑75: U.S. supports Kurdish rebels in Iraq. When Iran reaches an agreement with Iraq in 1975 and seals the border, Iraq slaughters Kurds and U.S. denies them refuge. Kissinger secretly explains that "covert action should not be confused with missionary work."4



1975: U.S. vetoes Security Council resolution condemning Israeli attacks on Palestinian refugee camps in Lebanon.5



1978‑79: Iranians begin demonstrations against the Shah. U.S. tells Shah it supports him "without reservation" and urges him to act forcefully. Until the last minute, U.S. tries to organize military coup to save the Shah, but to no avail.6



1979‑88: U.S. begins covert aid to Mujahideen in Afghanistan six months before Soviet invasion in Dec. 1979.7 Over the next decade U.S. provides training and more than $3 billion in arms and aid.



1980‑88: Iran‑Iraq war. When Iraq invades Iran, the U.S. opposes any Security Council action to condemn the invasion. U.S. soon removes Iraq from its list of nations supporting terrorism and allows U.S. arms to be transferred to Iraq. At the same time, U.S. lets Israel provide arms to Iran and in 1985 U.S. provides arms directly (though secretly) to Iran. U.S. provides intelligence information to Iraq. Iraq uses chemical weapons in 1984; U.S. restores diplomatic relations with Iraq. 1987 U.S. sends its navy into the Persian Gulf, taking Iraq's side; an overly‑aggressive U.S. ship shoots down an Iranian civilian airliner, killing 290.



1981, 1986: U.S. holds military maneuvers off the coast of Libya in waters claimed by Libya with the clear purpose of provoking Qaddafi. In 1981, a Libyan plane fires a missile and U.S. shoots down two Libyan planes. In 1986, Libya fires missiles that land far from any target and U.S. attacks Libyan patrol boats, killing 72, and shore installations. When a bomb goes off in a Berlin nightclub, killing three, the U.S. charges that Qaddafi was behind it (possibly true) and conducts major bombing raids in Libya, killing dozens of civilians, including Qaddafi's adopted daughter.8



1982: U.S. gives "green light" to Israeli invasion of Lebanon,9 killing some 17 thousand civilians.10 U.S. chooses not to invoke its laws prohibiting Israeli use of U.S. weapons except in self‑defense. U.S. vetoes several Security Council resolutions condemning the invasion.



1983: U.S. troops sent to Lebanon as part of a multinational peacekeeping force; intervene on one side of a civil war, including bombardment by USS New Jersey. Withdraw after suicide bombing of marine barracks.



1984: U.S.‑backed rebels in Afghanistan fire on civilian airliner.11



1987-92: U.S. arms used by Israel to repress first Palestinian Intifada. U.S. vetoes five Security Council resolution condemning Israeli repression.



1988: Saddam Hussein kills many thousands of his own Kurdish population and uses chemical weapons against them. The U.S. increases its economic ties to Iraq.



1988: U.S. vetoes 3 Security Council resolutions condemning continuing Israeli occupation of and repression in Lebanon.



1990‑91: U.S. rejects any diplomatic settlement of the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait (for example, rebuffing any attempt to link the two regional occupations, of Kuwait and of Palestine). U.S. leads international coalition in war against Iraq. Civilian infrastructure targeted.12 To promote "stability" U.S. refuses to aid post‑war uprisings by Shi'ites in the south and Kurds in the north, denying the rebels access to captured Iraqi weapons and refusing to prohibit Iraqi helicopter flights.13



1991‑: Devastating economic sanctions are imposed on Iraq. U.S. and Britain block all attempts to lift them. Hundreds of thousands die. Though Security Council had stated that sanctions were to be lifted once Saddam Hussein's programs to develop weapons of mass destruction were ended, Washington makes it known that the sanctions would remain as long as Saddam remains in power. Sanctions in fact strengthen Saddam's position. Asked about the horrendous human consequences of the sanctions, Madeleine Albright (U.S. ambassador to the UN and later Secretary of State) declares that "the price is worth it."14



1991-: U.S. forces permanently based in Saudi Arabia.



1993‑: U.S. launches missile attack on Iraq, claiming self‑defense against an alleged assassination attempt on former president Bush two months earlier.15



1998: U.S. and U.K. bomb Iraq over the issue of weapons inspections, even though Security Council is just then meeting to discuss the matter.



1998: U.S. destroys factory producing half of Sudan's pharmaceutical supply, claiming retaliation for attacks on U.S. embassies in Tanzania and Kenya and that factory was involved in chemical warfare. Evidence for the chemical warfare charge widely disputed.16



2000-: Israel uses U.S. arms in attempt to crush Palestinian uprising, killing hundreds of civilians.

 

[Tab]

Your point is zer0burn? The us goverment isnt perfect, name one that is.

 

[drewshin]

Originally posted by: Tabb
Your point is zer0burn? The us goverment isnt perfect, name one that is.

heh heh, the first post makes the least sense. what are they trying to say?

the u.s. has a HORRIBLE record in the middle east, not even close to anything reasonable.

 

[ChicagoMaroon]

Originally posted by: drewshin

Originally posted by: Tabb
Your point is zer0burn? The us goverment isnt perfect, name one that is.

heh heh, the first post makes the least sense. what are they trying to say?

the u.s. has a HORRIBLE record in the middle east, not even close to anything reasonable.

Let's pull out all the American troops from the Middle East and see how long it takes for Israel to conquer the entire Arab world.

 

[ChicagoMaroon]

So what? We support Israel's right to exist. If they hate us for it, then what can we do? If they kill us for it, then we must fight back. All these Arab states have plenty of land, why don't they give some for a Palestinian state.

Originally posted by: zer0burn
its VERY TWO SIDED


1947-48: U.S. backs Palestine partition plan. Israel established. U.S. declines to press Israel to allow expelled Palestinians to return.
...

2000-: Israel uses U.S. arms in attempt to crush Palestinian uprising, killing hundreds of civilians.

 

[wanders]

What does all these things have to do with a war of agression against Iraq? Or is this the "war on terrorism" we're discussing?

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: ChicagoMaroon
So what? We support Israel's right to exist. If they hate us for it, then what can we do? If they kill us for it, then we must fight back. All these Arab states have plenty of land, why don't they give some for a Palestinian state.

Originally posted by: zer0burn
its VERY TWO SIDED


1947-48: U.S. backs Palestine partition plan. Israel established. U.S. declines to press Israel to allow expelled Palestinians to return.
...

2000-: Israel uses U.S. arms in attempt to crush Palestinian uprising, killing hundreds of civilians.

What of Palestines right to exist?

 

[ChicagoMaroon]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: ChicagoMaroon
So what? We support Israel's right to exist. If they hate us for it, then what can we do? If they kill us for it, then we must fight back. All these Arab states have plenty of land, why don't they give some for a Palestinian state.

Originally posted by: zer0burn
its VERY TWO SIDED


1947-48: U.S. backs Palestine partition plan. Israel established. U.S. declines to press Israel to allow expelled Palestinians to return.
...

2000-: Israel uses U.S. arms in attempt to crush Palestinian uprising, killing hundreds of civilians.

What of Palestines right to exist?

Fine by me and I presume by most Americans as well. Anything to stop the Jews and Muslims from killing each other. The Bush Administration has a plan on the table for a Palestinian state by 2005. Yet, the the Muslims hate us regardless of what we do. Ironic because it's only America's influence that keeps Israel from a complete and all out massarce of the Arab world (see the Six Day War). And if there weren't American troops in Saudi Arabia, where would Saddam have rolled after Kuwait in 1990? Yet they hate us.

As for the other guy, War in Iraq is an element in the set {War on Terrorism}. The entire Arab world declared war on the U.S. 20 years ago, we finally realized it after 9/11.

 

[Siddhartha]

Originally posted by: zer0burn
its VERY TWO SIDED


1947-48: U.S. backs Palestine partition plan. Israel established. U.S. declines to press Israel to allow expelled Palestinians to return.



1949: CIA backs military coup deposing elected government of Syria.1



1953: CIA helps overthrow the democratically‑elected Mossadeq government in Iran (which had nationalized the British oil company) leading to a quarter‑century of repressive and dictatorial rule by the Shah, Mohammed Reza Pahlevi.



1956: U.S. cuts off promised funding for Aswan Dam in Egypt after Egypt receives Eastern bloc arms.



1956: Israel, Britain, and France invade Egypt. U.S. does not support invasion, but the involvement of its NATO allies severely diminishes Washington's reputation in the region.



1958: U.S. troops land in Lebanon to preserve "stability".



early 1960s: U.S. unsuccessfully attempts assassination of Iraqi leader, Abdul Karim Qassim.2



1963: U.S. supports coup by Iraqi Ba'ath party (soon to be headed by Saddam Hussein) and reportedly gives them names of communists to murder, which they do with vigor.3



1967‑: U.S. blocks any effort in the Security Council to enforce SC Resolution 242, calling for Israeli withdrawal from territories occupied in the 1967 war.



1970: Civil war between Jordan and PLO. Israel and U.S. discuss intervening on side of Jordan if Syria backs PLO.



1972: U.S. blocks Egyptian leader Anwar Sadat's efforts to reach a peace agreement with Israel.



1973: Airlifted U.S. military aid enables Israel to turn the tide in war with Syria and Egypt.



1973‑75: U.S. supports Kurdish rebels in Iraq. When Iran reaches an agreement with Iraq in 1975 and seals the border, Iraq slaughters Kurds and U.S. denies them refuge. Kissinger secretly explains that "covert action should not be confused with missionary work."4



1975: U.S. vetoes Security Council resolution condemning Israeli attacks on Palestinian refugee camps in Lebanon.5



1978‑79: Iranians begin demonstrations against the Shah. U.S. tells Shah it supports him "without reservation" and urges him to act forcefully. Until the last minute, U.S. tries to organize military coup to save the Shah, but to no avail.6



1979‑88: U.S. begins covert aid to Mujahideen in Afghanistan six months before Soviet invasion in Dec. 1979.7 Over the next decade U.S. provides training and more than $3 billion in arms and aid.



1980‑88: Iran‑Iraq war. When Iraq invades Iran, the U.S. opposes any Security Council action to condemn the invasion. U.S. soon removes Iraq from its list of nations supporting terrorism and allows U.S. arms to be transferred to Iraq. At the same time, U.S. lets Israel provide arms to Iran and in 1985 U.S. provides arms directly (though secretly) to Iran. U.S. provides intelligence information to Iraq. Iraq uses chemical weapons in 1984; U.S. restores diplomatic relations with Iraq. 1987 U.S. sends its navy into the Persian Gulf, taking Iraq's side; an overly‑aggressive U.S. ship shoots down an Iranian civilian airliner, killing 290.



1981, 1986: U.S. holds military maneuvers off the coast of Libya in waters claimed by Libya with the clear purpose of provoking Qaddafi. In 1981, a Libyan plane fires a missile and U.S. shoots down two Libyan planes. In 1986, Libya fires missiles that land far from any target and U.S. attacks Libyan patrol boats, killing 72, and shore installations. When a bomb goes off in a Berlin nightclub, killing three, the U.S. charges that Qaddafi was behind it (possibly true) and conducts major bombing raids in Libya, killing dozens of civilians, including Qaddafi's adopted daughter.8



1982: U.S. gives "green light" to Israeli invasion of Lebanon,9 killing some 17 thousand civilians.10 U.S. chooses not to invoke its laws prohibiting Israeli use of U.S. weapons except in self‑defense. U.S. vetoes several Security Council resolutions condemning the invasion.



1983: U.S. troops sent to Lebanon as part of a multinational peacekeeping force; intervene on one side of a civil war, including bombardment by USS New Jersey. Withdraw after suicide bombing of marine barracks.



1984: U.S.‑backed rebels in Afghanistan fire on civilian airliner.11



1987-92: U.S. arms used by Israel to repress first Palestinian Intifada. U.S. vetoes five Security Council resolution condemning Israeli repression.



1988: Saddam Hussein kills many thousands of his own Kurdish population and uses chemical weapons against them. The U.S. increases its economic ties to Iraq.



1988: U.S. vetoes 3 Security Council resolutions condemning continuing Israeli occupation of and repression in Lebanon.



1990‑91: U.S. rejects any diplomatic settlement of the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait (for example, rebuffing any attempt to link the two regional occupations, of Kuwait and of Palestine). U.S. leads international coalition in war against Iraq. Civilian infrastructure targeted.12 To promote "stability" U.S. refuses to aid post‑war uprisings by Shi'ites in the south and Kurds in the north, denying the rebels access to captured Iraqi weapons and refusing to prohibit Iraqi helicopter flights.13



1991‑: Devastating economic sanctions are imposed on Iraq. U.S. and Britain block all attempts to lift them. Hundreds of thousands die. Though Security Council had stated that sanctions were to be lifted once Saddam Hussein's programs to develop weapons of mass destruction were ended, Washington makes it known that the sanctions would remain as long as Saddam remains in power. Sanctions in fact strengthen Saddam's position. Asked about the horrendous human consequences of the sanctions, Madeleine Albright (U.S. ambassador to the UN and later Secretary of State) declares that "the price is worth it."14



1991-: U.S. forces permanently based in Saudi Arabia.



1993‑: U.S. launches missile attack on Iraq, claiming self‑defense against an alleged assassination attempt on former president Bush two months earlier.15



1998: U.S. and U.K. bomb Iraq over the issue of weapons inspections, even though Security Council is just then meeting to discuss the matter.



1998: U.S. destroys factory producing half of Sudan's pharmaceutical supply, claiming retaliation for attacks on U.S. embassies in Tanzania and Kenya and that factory was involved in chemical warfare. Evidence for the chemical warfare charge widely disputed.16



2000-: Israel uses U.S. arms in attempt to crush Palestinian uprising, killing hundreds of civilians.

US's foreign policy has been driven by anti communism, support of Israel, and stabilization of oil supplies. Anyone in the way of these
objectives were ran over. A lot of muslims were and are in the way of US's foreign policies.

 

[HappyGamer2]

"
"Let's pull out all the American troops from the Middle East and see how long it takes for Israel to conquer the entire Arab world. "

it would take longer than you think maybe, the jews have better air power, but land power? the arabs have a plenty of M1A1/M1A2 tanks plus plenty of m60's

 

[ChicagoMaroon]

Originally posted by: HappyGamer2
"
"Let's pull out all the American troops from the Middle East and see how long it takes for Israel to conquer the entire Arab world. "

it would take longer than you think maybe, the jews have better air power, but land power? the arabs have a plenty of M1A1/M1A2 tanks plus plenty of m60's

See History of the Six Day War. Okay, so it might take them two weeks this time. No Arab state has a credible military.

 

[HappyGamer2]

Eygpt has about 600 M1A1 alone and the that number is increasing

 

[HappyGamer2]

yep I know all about the six day war, that was then this is now
what about the time egypt pushed the mighty Israel back?

edited for reason listed on page two

 

[ChicagoMaroon]

Originally posted by: HappyGamer2
Eygpt has about 600 M1A1 alone and the that number is increasing

Yeah, my money is still on Israel. A professional and highly skilled military, proven in battle. But that's beside the point. My point is that American influence is the only thing keeping Israel from going nuts on the entire Middle East. If America pulls out, turns isolationist (which is a real possiblity given the current level of anti-Americanism), the next time Hamas sends a suicide bomber, Ariel Sharon will - as Shakespeare wrote - "cry Havoc and let slip the dogs of war".

They're a lot of seething anger in America right now, and that might be manifested in an isolationist movement. God help us if America says screw it and withdraws our troops from Germany. Germany, for the first time in 60 years, will have to pay for and raise its own military capable of defending its borders. I'll give it 20 years before German nationalism and militarism is on the rise again (there's already suggestions of it). And once that happens, Germans march into Paris (again) and World War III is upon us. Except maybe this time, we'll let Germany keep France.

 

[ChicagoMaroon]

Originally posted by: HappyGamer2
yep I know all about the six day war, that was then this is now
what about the time egypt pushed the mighty jews back?

What time was that?

 

[HappyGamer2]

it's true, eygpt has beat the Israel's in a few big battles
what if the USA dropped all the war aid it gives the Israelies, LOL

edit for reason on page 2

 

[ChicagoMaroon]

Originally posted by: HappyGamer2
it's true, eygpt has beat the jews in a few big battles
what if the USA dropped all the war aid it gives the jews, LOL

When, where, links!?!?!

Yeah, we sell military equipment to Israel, we also sell it to Egypt and other Arab states. Those M1A1 tanks you talk about are American made.

I'm all for America not selling military equipment to ANYBODY.

 

[HappyGamer2]

what about all the M1A2's and m60's Saudi has
Kuwait has M1's too

 

[HappyGamer2]

yes american made,
well the eygptian m1's are made in Eygpt, they are a make'n all they can more

 

[HappyGamer2]

Bush loves to sell tanks, just like his daddy

 

[Lonyo]

Originally posted by: ChicagoMaroon
So what? We support Israel's right to exist. If they hate us for it, then what can we do? If they kill us for it, then we must fight back. All these Arab states have plenty of land, why don't they give some for a Palestinian state.

Originally posted by: zer0burn
its VERY TWO SIDED


1947-48: U.S. backs Palestine partition plan. Israel established. U.S. declines to press Israel to allow expelled Palestinians to return.
...

2000-: Israel uses U.S. arms in attempt to crush Palestinian uprising, killing hundreds of civilians.

Say someone took 75% of the US' land and opressed the US citizens. Would the American's be happy? Would they say "yeah, sure!" if someone said, "Canada has land, why not move them there"?

The Israel situation is a major factor in the battle between the US and middle east. And it's not all one sided, as someone poined out, both sides have aggravated the situation at different times. Hell, someone even said the Arabs get in the way of US foreign policy, this is why the two sides are opposed, it is in a big way the US' fault, they have antagonised the Arabs, who have replied with terrorism, the only way they really have to make a point, in their eyes.

 

[HappyGamer2]

"Yeah, we sell military equipment to Israel, we also sell it to Egypt and other Arab states. Those M1A1 tanks you talk about are American made."

it's not always sell, it can be give, free AID, well a bribe

see I can take the other side very easily
there are two side to this story, well maybe even three sides

 

[ChicagoMaroon]

Originally posted by: Lonyo

Originally posted by: ChicagoMaroon
So what? We support Israel's right to exist. If they hate us for it, then what can we do? If they kill us for it, then we must fight back. All these Arab states have plenty of land, why don't they give some for a Palestinian state.

Originally posted by: zer0burn
its VERY TWO SIDED


1947-48: U.S. backs Palestine partition plan. Israel established. U.S. declines to press Israel to allow expelled Palestinians to return.
...

2000-: Israel uses U.S. arms in attempt to crush Palestinian uprising, killing hundreds of civilians.

Say someone took 75% of the US' land and opressed the US citizens. Would the American's be happy? Would they say "yeah, sure!" if someone said, "Canada has land, why not move them there"?

The Israel situation is a major factor in the battle between the US and middle east. And it's not all one sided, as someone poined out, both sides have aggravated the situation at different times. Hell, someone even said the Arabs get in the way of US foreign policy, this is why the two sides are opposed, it is in a big way the US' fault, they have antagonised the Arabs, who have replied with terrorism, the only way they really have to make a point, in their eyes.

The "prior claim to land" by the Palestinians is a false argument. The history of the world is that terrority is won and controlled by military power. Only in the American superpower imposed peace of the last 60 years are borders of the "weak" respected. 100 years ago who would have cared that Iraq rolled into Kuwait to take over land in 1990.

But if you want to go that route, wanna tell me the Bibical borders of Israel? From the Nile to Euphrates, so it was the Arabs that took Israel's land and oppressed them. The "prior claim to land" argument is a bad one because you can always go back to some prior "owner".

As for your other point, if the Arabs want to respond by terrorism that kills Americans then America has every right to protect Americans, by whatever means America sees fit.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: ChicagoMaroon

Originally posted by: Lonyo

Originally posted by: ChicagoMaroon
So what? We support Israel's right to exist. If they hate us for it, then what can we do? If they kill us for it, then we must fight back. All these Arab states have plenty of land, why don't they give some for a Palestinian state.

Originally posted by: zer0burn
its VERY TWO SIDED


1947-48: U.S. backs Palestine partition plan. Israel established. U.S. declines to press Israel to allow expelled Palestinians to return.
...

2000-: Israel uses U.S. arms in attempt to crush Palestinian uprising, killing hundreds of civilians.

Say someone took 75% of the US' land and opressed the US citizens. Would the American's be happy? Would they say "yeah, sure!" if someone said, "Canada has land, why not move them there"?

The Israel situation is a major factor in the battle between the US and middle east. And it's not all one sided, as someone poined out, both sides have aggravated the situation at different times. Hell, someone even said the Arabs get in the way of US foreign policy, this is why the two sides are opposed, it is in a big way the US' fault, they have antagonised the Arabs, who have replied with terrorism, the only way they really have to make a point, in their eyes.

The "prior claim to land" by the Palestinians is a false argument. The history of the world is that terrority is won and controlled by military power. Only in the American superpower imposed peace of the last 60 years are borders of the "weak" respected. 100 years ago who would have cared that Iraq rolled into Kuwait to take over land in 1990.

But if you want to go that route, wanna tell me the Bibical borders of Israel? From the Nile to Euphrates, so it was the Arabs that took Israel's land and oppressed them. The "prior claim to land" argument is a bad one because you can always go back to some prior "owner".

As for your other point, if the Arabs want to respond by terrorism that kills Americans then America has every right to protect Americans, by whatever means America sees fit.

The UN had set out an Israeli state and a Palestinian state, that's the claim for both. It's not based on Biblical territories.