A Young Marine (the real McCoy) Speaks Out

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Ok. Let?s assume this and the letter I posted are both in fact fake.

Now let?s re-look at the two letters and see what each side is trying to tell the American people.

The pro-war letter I posted is full of information about the war, who is fighting and their tactics. It is pretty light on the politics. About the only political thing in the letter is the idea that were are winning because of the 20-1 kill ratio the letter claims.

Now the anti-war letter. The whole thing is full of anti-American BS. There is not one piece of useful factual information. It is all stuff about how bad we are, or Bush, or the invasion. Etc.

The letter I posted had some interesting information that I or many others did not know about Iraq, this letter is just pure propaganda, posted at a fringe web site that claims Lincoln was a war criminal and that the south can still succeed if it wants too.

Once again, I would be embarrassed to have posted this letter. (and I spelt it right this time Dave, happy?)

Frankly, I'm embarrassed by what a partisan hypocrite you are.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Ok. Let?s assume this and the letter I posted are both in fact fake.

Now let?s re-look at the two letters and see what each side is trying to tell the American people.

The pro-war letter I posted is full of information about the war, who is fighting and their tactics. It is pretty light on the politics. About the only political thing in the letter is the idea that were are winning because of the 20-1 kill ratio the letter claims.

Now the anti-war letter. The whole thing is full of anti-American BS. There is not one piece of useful factual information. It is all stuff about how bad we are, or Bush, or the invasion. Etc.

The letter I posted had some interesting information that I or many others did not know about Iraq, this letter is just pure propaganda, posted at a fringe web site that claims Lincoln was a war criminal and that the south can still succeed if it wants too.

Once again, I would be embarrassed to have posted this letter. (and I spelt it right this time Dave, happy?)

Frankly, I'm embarrassed by what a partisan hypocrite you are.

Amen

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
In the spirit of the thread I posted that was also written by a Marine, I think this is fake propaganda.

When I joined I took an oath. In that oath I swore to protect the Constitution of the United States. I didn't swear to build democracies in countries on the other side of the world under the guise of "national security."

And yet it claims he joined only 2 years ago, after we had already invaded Iraq. What exactly did he think he was going to be doing?

Furthermore, he uses the same terms used by the anti-Bushies on here. Calls the people in power fascists, ?Supreme leader Bush? Says Bush used scare tactics to win election. (And yet he signed up 2 years ago, after Bush won one election and was about to win a second.) He is against the Patriot act as well.

Now let?s check out what wikipedia says about lewrockwell.com, the site this came from.

Lew Rockwell's namesake web site features a selection of articles, including opposition to war and imperialism, and occasional articles criticizing the presidency of Abraham Lincoln.[1] No president or policy is held to be a sacred cow on Lewrockwell.com, and all manner of policies and persons are daily analyzed and criticized. The site also includes essays against the United States's participation in the Second World War[2], speculation about an end of the United States as a cohesive union[3], and accusations that fascism and socialism alike threaten the Western world as states and leaders centralize their power.[4] Naturally, these writings are controversial, and have brought on harsh criticism from both the political left and right.

And I was criticized for posting something off National Review.com.

Another comment about this web site:

The site also features regular screeds about how Abraham Lincoln was a murderous war criminal, how the American military is a hotbed of criminal imperialism and murderous warmongering, and why Southern secession not only was honorable and noble but how it still is a viable option.

I would be embarrassed to quote something from this guys web site. Next time get a real source.

Are you going to post one of his articles against World War 2 or Lincoln next?

edit:fixed my spelling, spell check was broke... oops.

You beat me to it!! Very nice post!!!
Its interesting how these people crucify you for posting from sites they disagree with...then they go and post from an obviously slanted bogus site and think its 100% truthful...rofl

 

[jrenz]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Ok. Let?s assume this and the letter I posted are both in fact fake.

Now let?s re-look at the two letters and see what each side is trying to tell the American people.

The pro-war letter I posted is full of information about the war, who is fighting and their tactics. It is pretty light on the politics. About the only political thing in the letter is the idea that were are winning because of the 20-1 kill ratio the letter claims.

Now the anti-war letter. The whole thing is full of anti-American BS. There is not one piece of useful factual information. It is all stuff about how bad we are, or Bush, or the invasion. Etc.

The letter I posted had some interesting information that I or many others did not know about Iraq, this letter is just pure propaganda, posted at a fringe web site that claims Lincoln was a war criminal and that the south can still succeed if it wants too.

Once again, I would be embarrassed to have posted this letter. (and I spelt it right this time Dave, happy?)

Frankly, I'm embarrassed by what a partisan hypocrite you are.

I'm assuming that was directed toward everyone who hasn't spoken up about this letter... right?

 

[jrenz]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Ok. Let?s assume this and the letter I posted are both in fact fake.

Now let?s re-look at the two letters and see what each side is trying to tell the American people.

The pro-war letter I posted is full of information about the war, who is fighting and their tactics. It is pretty light on the politics. About the only political thing in the letter is the idea that were are winning because of the 20-1 kill ratio the letter claims.

Now the anti-war letter. The whole thing is full of anti-American BS. There is not one piece of useful factual information. It is all stuff about how bad we are, or Bush, or the invasion. Etc.

The letter I posted had some interesting information that I or many others did not know about Iraq, this letter is just pure propaganda, posted at a fringe web site that claims Lincoln was a war criminal and that the south can still succeed if it wants too.

Once again, I would be embarrassed to have posted this letter. (and I spelt it right this time Dave, happy?)

Frankly, I'm embarrassed by what a partisan hypocrite you are.

Amen

Says King Dave of the Hypocrites.

 

[Uhtrinity]

Originally posted by: palehorse74
I do not know a single soldier or marine who thinks or feels that way about our current situation; even those who oppose the war in Iraq or object to Bush's decisions. Not one!

Nearly every sentence in that entire letter is a far-left talking point. Every sentence! It's as if Cindy Sheehan or Michael Moore wrote the letter... it's that ridiculous.

And I can say the exact opposite .. guess it depends who your friends are, or the circles you hang in.

Also remember I am a veteran myself, so we do exist, not all current and former military are supporters of this war. I stated earlier that my friends and associates have been roughly 75% anti and 25% for. Was really funny (not literally) when one of my friends was deployed, who was also a rabid Bush supporter, and to see how his views changed. Unlike the Marine the OP quotes this guy was a 12 year, now 15 year, veteran of the National Guard. Weird how someones views can change once they see how they were used.

 

[Fox5]

The letter is fake, no young man would write something like that. Not one that would join the marines anyhow, it speaks heavily of someone who majored in communications and thus is a liberal bastard with little concept of how the world truly works. Probably a hippie left over from the Vietnam era.

 

[nutxo]

Originally posted by: Uhtrinity

Originally posted by: palehorse74
I do not know a single soldier or marine who thinks or feels that way about our current situation; even those who oppose the war in Iraq or object to Bush's decisions. Not one!

Nearly every sentence in that entire letter is a far-left talking point. Every sentence! It's as if Cindy Sheehan or Michael Moore wrote the letter... it's that ridiculous.

And I can say the exact opposite .. guess it depends who your friends are, or the circles you hang in.

Also remember I am a veteran myself, so we do exist, not all current and former military are supporters of this war. I stated earlier that my friends and associates have been roughly 75% anti and 25% for. Was really funny (not literally) when one of my friends was deployed, who was also a rabid Bush supporter, and to see how his views changed. Unlike the Marine the OP quotes this guy was a 12 year, now 15 year, veteran of the National Guard. Weird how someones views can change once they see how they were used.

National gaurd?? So he supported everything until he was actually asked to do something more than go to drill once a month and collect a paycheck for 12 years?

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: jrenz

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Ok. Let?s assume this and the letter I posted are both in fact fake.

Now let?s re-look at the two letters and see what each side is trying to tell the American people.

The pro-war letter I posted is full of information about the war, who is fighting and their tactics. It is pretty light on the politics. About the only political thing in the letter is the idea that were are winning because of the 20-1 kill ratio the letter claims.

Now the anti-war letter. The whole thing is full of anti-American BS. There is not one piece of useful factual information. It is all stuff about how bad we are, or Bush, or the invasion. Etc.

The letter I posted had some interesting information that I or many others did not know about Iraq, this letter is just pure propaganda, posted at a fringe web site that claims Lincoln was a war criminal and that the south can still succeed if it wants too.

Once again, I would be embarrassed to have posted this letter. (and I spelt it right this time Dave, happy?)

Frankly, I'm embarrassed by what a partisan hypocrite you are.

I'm assuming that was directed toward everyone who hasn't spoken up about this letter... right?

Why would you think that? I think my point is very clear. He's doing exactly what he's accusing the liberals of doing, the very definition of a hypocrite.

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Real or not, it doesn't matter. In fact it's beside the point. It blows my mind how some people will take a blog entry from a total unknown and trumpet it as real and legitimate without even checking into it just because it echos their views. And of course it doesn't hurt that the author claims to be in the military...

This has been floating around out there for about three weeks now. It's on every lefty and anti-war blog site in the known universe. It would be nice to know if this guy is real or if this is just another lame attentention grabber.

"I saw it on the intarweb so it must be true."

 

[jrenz]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: jrenz

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Ok. Let?s assume this and the letter I posted are both in fact fake.

Now let?s re-look at the two letters and see what each side is trying to tell the American people.

The pro-war letter I posted is full of information about the war, who is fighting and their tactics. It is pretty light on the politics. About the only political thing in the letter is the idea that were are winning because of the 20-1 kill ratio the letter claims.

Now the anti-war letter. The whole thing is full of anti-American BS. There is not one piece of useful factual information. It is all stuff about how bad we are, or Bush, or the invasion. Etc.

The letter I posted had some interesting information that I or many others did not know about Iraq, this letter is just pure propaganda, posted at a fringe web site that claims Lincoln was a war criminal and that the south can still succeed if it wants too.

Once again, I would be embarrassed to have posted this letter. (and I spelt it right this time Dave, happy?)

Frankly, I'm embarrassed by what a partisan hypocrite you are.

I'm assuming that was directed toward everyone who hasn't spoken up about this letter... right?

Why would you think that? I think my point is very clear. He's doing exactly what he's accusing the liberals of doing, the very definition of a hypocrite.

And what are the liberals doing? The very same thing they accuse him of doing daily.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: jrenz

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: jrenz

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Ok. Let?s assume this and the letter I posted are both in fact fake.

Now let?s re-look at the two letters and see what each side is trying to tell the American people.

The pro-war letter I posted is full of information about the war, who is fighting and their tactics. It is pretty light on the politics. About the only political thing in the letter is the idea that were are winning because of the 20-1 kill ratio the letter claims.

Now the anti-war letter. The whole thing is full of anti-American BS. There is not one piece of useful factual information. It is all stuff about how bad we are, or Bush, or the invasion. Etc.

The letter I posted had some interesting information that I or many others did not know about Iraq, this letter is just pure propaganda, posted at a fringe web site that claims Lincoln was a war criminal and that the south can still succeed if it wants too.

Once again, I would be embarrassed to have posted this letter. (and I spelt it right this time Dave, happy?)

Frankly, I'm embarrassed by what a partisan hypocrite you are.

I'm assuming that was directed toward everyone who hasn't spoken up about this letter... right?

Why would you think that? I think my point is very clear. He's doing exactly what he's accusing the liberals of doing, the very definition of a hypocrite.

And what are the liberals doing? The very same thing they accuse him of doing daily.

Perhaps you should speak out against hypocrites of all stripes then? Not just the liberals you love to hate.

 

[jrenz]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: jrenz

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: jrenz

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Ok. Let?s assume this and the letter I posted are both in fact fake.

Now let?s re-look at the two letters and see what each side is trying to tell the American people.

The pro-war letter I posted is full of information about the war, who is fighting and their tactics. It is pretty light on the politics. About the only political thing in the letter is the idea that were are winning because of the 20-1 kill ratio the letter claims.

Now the anti-war letter. The whole thing is full of anti-American BS. There is not one piece of useful factual information. It is all stuff about how bad we are, or Bush, or the invasion. Etc.

The letter I posted had some interesting information that I or many others did not know about Iraq, this letter is just pure propaganda, posted at a fringe web site that claims Lincoln was a war criminal and that the south can still succeed if it wants too.

Once again, I would be embarrassed to have posted this letter. (and I spelt it right this time Dave, happy?)

Frankly, I'm embarrassed by what a partisan hypocrite you are.

I'm assuming that was directed toward everyone who hasn't spoken up about this letter... right?

Why would you think that? I think my point is very clear. He's doing exactly what he's accusing the liberals of doing, the very definition of a hypocrite.

And what are the liberals doing? The very same thing they accuse him of doing daily.

Perhaps you should speak out against hypocrites of all stripes then? Not just the liberals you love to hate.

With people like Dave posting every day, my hands are full as it is

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: jrenz
With people like Dave posting every day, my hands are full as it is

Have you ever contributed anything substantive to any thread here? Just curious.

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: jrenz
Taking a cursory glance around the military blog sites, there is a lot of talk about how this guy is a fraud.

One guy went so far as to call some personnel office and ask if there was a Philip Martin stations at 29palms, and there is not. There are a few Philip Martin's in the marines, but none of them are at 29 palms.
So either it is fake, or he is using someone else name. But why use a fake name and post a picture of yourself?

You conveniently neglected a couple of other possibilities. Perhaps "one guy" was lying, or perhaps he or his contact at the "personnel office" didn't try very hard. I found this story, dated June 2005, on what appears to be the University of North Texas campus newspaper or in-house newsletter. It's a human interest feature about a UNT employee, Cheryl Martin, and her older son Todd, safely returned from Iraq. It paints a glowing picture of her dedication and her support for the troops. It also mentions in passing a younger son, Phillip, then 19 years old, who had just finished boot camp and was also a Marine. Hmmm.

I'll acknowledge it is possible this is an elaborate forgery. Given the date, the tone, and the context of the article, however, it seems far more likely that it is exactly what it appears to be, and that at least in June of 2005, there was a Philip Martin just beginning his adventures in the USMC. Is it the same Philip Martin who allegedly wrote the letter in the OP? Who knows. The timeline is about right, but that could just be a coincidence. If "one guy" and his personnel buddy missed this Phil Martin, they may have missed others (I don't think they were very motivated to find him).

Now if only you had a name and branch for your "letter", we might be able to do a similar investigation into its authenticity.

 

[jrenz]

If "one guy" and his personnel buddy missed this Phil Martin, they may have missed others (I don't think they were very motivated to find him).

It wasn't some guy's "buddy", it was a member of the Marine corps. personnel office, and apparently he wasn't the first guy calling looking for this kid.

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: jrenz

If "one guy" and his personnel buddy missed this Phil Martin, they may have missed others (I don't think they were very motivated to find him).

It wasn't some guy's "buddy", it was a member of the Marine corps. personnel office, and apparently he wasn't the first guy calling looking for this kid.

Possibly, if you are naive enough to believe every anonymous poster on the Internet. The fact that they apparently missed at least one Philip Martin doesn't help their credibility.

 

[Uhtrinity]

Originally posted by: nutxo

Originally posted by: Uhtrinity

Originally posted by: palehorse74
I do not know a single soldier or marine who thinks or feels that way about our current situation; even those who oppose the war in Iraq or object to Bush's decisions. Not one!

Nearly every sentence in that entire letter is a far-left talking point. Every sentence! It's as if Cindy Sheehan or Michael Moore wrote the letter... it's that ridiculous.

And I can say the exact opposite .. guess it depends who your friends are, or the circles you hang in.

Also remember I am a veteran myself, so we do exist, not all current and former military are supporters of this war. I stated earlier that my friends and associates have been roughly 75% anti and 25% for. Was really funny (not literally) when one of my friends was deployed, who was also a rabid Bush supporter, and to see how his views changed. Unlike the Marine the OP quotes this guy was a 12 year, now 15 year, veteran of the National Guard. Weird how someones views can change once they see how they were used.

National gaurd?? So he supported everything until he was actually asked to do something more than go to drill once a month and collect a paycheck for 12 years?

Don't demean his service just because he doesn't agree with you now. He may have only been National Guard, but he did spend about 18 months being deployed. I have made the mistake in the past thinking of National Guard as being a joke, but I don't anymore.

 

[WHAMPOM]

Originally posted by: palehorse74
I do not know a single soldier or marine who thinks or feels that way about our current situation; even those who oppose the war in Iraq or object to Bush's decisions. Not one!

Nearly every sentence in that entire letter is a far-left talking point. Every sentence! It's as if Cindy Sheehan or Michael Moore wrote the letter... it's that ridiculous.

By the logic of that statement you must not know any soldiers or marines. Or just not any single ones.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: WHAMPOM

Originally posted by: palehorse74
I do not know a single soldier or marine who thinks or feels that way about our current situation; even those who oppose the war in Iraq or object to Bush's decisions. Not one!

Nearly every sentence in that entire letter is a far-left talking point. Every sentence! It's as if Cindy Sheehan or Michael Moore wrote the letter... it's that ridiculous.

By the logic of that statement you must not know any soldiers or marines. Or just not any single ones.

lol. touche'! But you know what I meant... and since I'm in the Army, and have been deployed three times now, I know plenty of each. As I said, even those opposed to the war, or how its being fought, do not sound like the left-wing nutjob in the OP.

nutxo - I spent several years in the National Guard, and even deployed with them in 04-05, so please do not think for a minute that they are a joke. I would put most of them up against the AD soldiers I've also served with; in terms of courage, tenacity, ability, and skill. There are good Joes in every branch of the Army. I'm no longer in the NG, but I have a lot of respect for them and I am very proud of my service in the NG.

 

[operaman1]

Once again great reading. I can sum up the thread pretty much like this: Either a left-leaning or right-leaning person posts something from a "source". Then the usuals go about calling each other ignorant bastards that are brainwashed into a particular viewpoint.

No wonder the rest of the world laughs at America. If P & N is an example of "Thinking Americans" they must think Americans are morons.

Does anyone ever have a meaningful debate on here that does not end up disintegrating into a name-calling propaganda fest? I am guessing not.

Though the entertainment value is quite high. Reading this section of the forums is like a Super-Sized Version of Crossfire or some ilk: Even though it is an incoherent train wreck, damn it is sure entertaining. Keep it coming guys...

 

[ScottMac]

The OP and article indicate that the guy is a Marine, not National Guard.

National Guard is affiliated with the Army, not the Marine Corps.

Operationally, aside from being different branches, the difference is that a Reserve member (any branch) can be called up as an individual, but National Guard must be called up as a unit.

FWIW

 

[Rainsford]

This is as stupid as ProfJohn's thread. It's one guy, who may or may not be in the military, sourced from some partisan fake "news" site, posted just because it happens to support the opinion of the folks who posted it.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: dahunan
Dude.. they will call him a coward or they will say he is a democrat or that democrats paid him.. then they go on with their lives and forget about all the most courageous and proud american soldiers who are dying over there everyday and forget about the people our tax dollars kill all the time in places where our enemy was not...

Originally posted by: palehorse74
I do not know a single soldier or marine who thinks or feels that way about our current situation; even those who oppose the war in Iraq or object to Bush's decisions. Not one!

Nearly every sentence in that entire letter is a far-left talking point. Every sentence! It's as if Cindy Sheehan or Michael Moore wrote the letter... it's that ridiculous.

its ridiculous that someone in the military might actually think this huh? Normal people don't see this as that farfetched.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Now the anti-war letter. The whole thing is full of anti-American BS. There is not one piece of useful factual information. It is all stuff about how bad we are, or Bush, or the invasion. Etc.

The letter I posted had some interesting information that I or many others did not know about Iraq, this letter is just pure propaganda, posted at a fringe web site that claims Lincoln was a war criminal and that the south can still succeed if it wants too.

The fact that you do not agree with it does not make it "anti-american bs."

Unthinking subservience to the state is not patriotism, sorry.