A10-7870K vs Athlon 860K + GT730 [AtenRa & cbn]

mohit9206 · Apr 23, 2016

Its crazy when you come to know that a stock 980Ti is 12 times faster than a GT730 Gddr5 and 14 times faster when overclocked!! Its insane!
$60 for Gt730 vs $600 for 980Ti. 10 times the cost but 12 times the performance.So price to performance Gt730 doesn't look too bad.
Against the 970, 970 is 8 times more powerful but costs only 5 times more so here the GT730 looks bad.
Against the GTX960 2gb, 960 is 5 times faster but costs only 3 times more.So GT730 looks bad here was well.
GTX 950 4.4X the performance for 2.3X the price.
GTX 750Ti 3X the performance for 2X the price.
Hey its not all bad for the GT730.
GT730 is 1.7X the cost of GT710 but provides approx 3X the performance so GT730 does look good here atleast.
Just some fun comparisons.Don't take it too seriously.
Like i've found out firsthand while GT730 does a good job playing games from before the PS4/Xbone era,it completely fails on new gen games.
Resolution used 1600*900
Hitman Absolution(2012)- 40 fps avg on High settings.60 fps on Medium.
Lost Planet 3(2013)- 50 fps Max settings. 60fps on High.
Blacklight Retribution(2012) - 60fps max settings.
Ryse Son of Rome(2014)- 20fps on Lowest settings.
AC:Syndicate(2015)- 15fps on Lowest settings.8fps on High.
FireWatch(2016)- 25fps on High settings.
GTA V(2015)- 50fps on Normal settings.

FullHD (1920×1080)

Silverforce11 · Apr 23, 2016

Funny that new games coming out run with a stutter mess on dual cores or some don't even run at all... so at least these QUAD-core APUs can still do it well, or even drive a cheap dGPU upgrade.

The Stilt · Apr 23, 2016

I appreciate the effort you put into this, but personally I wouldn't even consider APUs or harvested Athlons if I had to build a system of a shoe string budget. If the mandatory specs are >= 4 cores and 16GB RAM, and using second hand parts is not allowed:

Code:

AMD FX-4300 Bulk - 56.90&#8364;
GIGABYTE GA-970A-UD3P - 81.90&#8364;
GIGABYTE GV-R736D5-2GD - 104.90&#8364;
Mushkin DIMM 16GB DDR3-1866 Kit - 53.90&#8364;
Thermalright True Spirit 120 M BW Rev.A - 34.99&#8364;

Total: 332.59&#8364; incl. 19% tax.

Code:

AMD Athlon X4 870K - 79.90&#8364;
ASUS A88X-PLUS - 76.90&#8364;
GIGABYTE GV-R736D5-2GD - 104.90&#8364;
Mushkin DIMM 16GB DDR3-1866 Kit - 53.90&#8364;
Thermalright True Spirit 120 M BW Rev.A - 34.99&#8364;

Total: 350.59&#8364; incl. 19% tax

Code:

AMD A10-7860K - 104.90&#8364;
ASUS A88X-PLUS - 76.90&#8364;
Mushkin DIMM 16GB DDR3-2400 Kit - 61.90&#8364;
Thermalright True Spirit 120 M BW Rev.A - 34.99&#8364;

Total: 278.69&#8364; incl. 19% tax

Both of the non-APU systems will have around twice the graphics performance of the APU system. Despite the Piledriver based FX-setup having slightly lower IPC, it will be able to reach higher frequencies and will be consuming less power than the Athlon when they are both clocked to the maximum frequency. Recent Steamroller based parts usually hit 4.4 - 4.5GHz region, while recent 2 CU Visheras will be able to hit 300 - 500MHz higher, when sufficient cooling and motherboard is used.

IMO the harvested APU parts (Athlons) should sell for 49.90€ to make them appealing.

frozentundra123456 · Apr 23, 2016

Silverforce11 said:
Funny that new games coming out run with a stutter mess on dual cores or some don't even run at all... so at least these QUAD-core APUs can still do it well, or even drive a cheap dGPU upgrade.

They can play the game. "Doing it well" is quite another matter, and you can certainly "do it much better" with a cheap cpu and a HD7770 level dgpu for very little additional cost.

Silverforce11 · Apr 23, 2016

frozentundra123456 said:
They can play the game. "Doing it well" is quite another matter, and you can certainly "do it much better" with a cheap cpu and a HD7770 level dgpu for very little additional cost.

You're missing the point. An A8 or A10 gaming APU setup for cheap, can easily acquire a cheap dGPU and drive modern games well because it's a true quad core. Whereas a duo core CPU + dGPU combo right off the bat can't, because it's CPU is limiting.

ie. Someone builds an A8 gaming rig to start of for cheap, if they later want a dGPU because they saved up some $, it will game very well.

Azuma Hazuki · Apr 23, 2016

I dunno about "very well," but this is precisely the reason I refuse to build anything for anyone that has less than 4 execution threads, unless it's a real bitty box for Granny to check her AOL mail on. The A8-7600 has displaced the Intel Pentium and Celeron from my builds, and it's only a little pricier than a good Pentium anyway.

AMD can give excellent value for the money if matched to the proper workload. All the pants-messing excitement over Intel's benchmark numbers means less than zilch in the real world.

AtenRa · Apr 23, 2016

The Stilt said:
I appreciate the effort you put into this, but personally I wouldn't even consider APUs or harvested Athlons if I had to build a system of a shoe string budget. If the mandatory specs are >= 4 cores and 16GB RAM, and using second hand parts is not allowed:

Code:

AMD FX-4300 Bulk - 56.90 GIGABYTE GA-970A-UD3P - 81.90 GIGABYTE GV-R736D5-2GD - 104.90 Mushkin DIMM 16GB DDR3-1866 Kit - 53.90 Thermalright True Spirit 120 M BW Rev.A - 34.99 Total: 332.59 incl. 19% tax.

Code:

AMD Athlon X4 870K - 79.90 ASUS A88X-PLUS - 76.90 GIGABYTE GV-R736D5-2GD - 104.90 Mushkin DIMM 16GB DDR3-1866 Kit - 53.90 Thermalright True Spirit 120 M BW Rev.A - 34.99 Total: 350.59 incl. 19% tax

Code:

AMD A10-7860K - 104.90 ASUS A88X-PLUS - 76.90 Mushkin DIMM 16GB DDR3-2400 Kit - 61.90 Thermalright True Spirit 120 M BW Rev.A - 34.99 Total: 278.69 incl. 19% tax

Both of the non-APU systems will have around twice the graphics performance of the APU system. Despite the Piledriver based FX-setup having slightly lower IPC, it will be able to reach higher frequencies and will be consuming less power than the Athlon when they are both clocked to the maximum frequency. Recent Steamroller based parts usually hit 4.4 - 4.5GHz region, while recent 2 CU Visheras will be able to hit 300 - 500MHz higher, when sufficient cooling and motherboard is used.

IMO the harvested APU parts (Athlons) should sell for 49.90 to make them appealing.

Bulk FX4300 will need a CPU Heat-sink fan, that will increase the total system price.

Personally, today i would wait for the new AM4 platform and start with a Quad-Core 65W TDP BristolRidge.

The Stilt · Apr 23, 2016

AtenRa said:
Bulk FX4300 will need a CPU Heat-sink fan, that will increase the total system price.

Personally, today i would wait for the new AM4 platform and start with a Quad-Core 65W TDP BristolRidge.

It is included to the total price.

AM4 BR is pretty much pointless, since it is nothing but a Carrizo in disguise made available in desktop package. There won't basically be any overclocking either (outside increasing the BCLK, which is a extremely bad idea) since the rumor says AMD won't be releasing any unlocked BRs (for obvious reasons...).

DrMrLordX · Apr 23, 2016

The 3.6/4.0 part won't be unlocked? Blasphemy!

The Stilt · Apr 23, 2016

DrMrLordX said:
The 3.6/4.0 part won't be unlocked? Blasphemy!

Neither FX or "K" SKUs for BR seen so far

I would think that the reason is that there simply is basically no headroom left, CPU frequency wise. If Carrizo requires ~1.6V for ~4.6GHz under sub zero temperatures, the fastest models are definitely already maxed out. The GPU most likely would have some additional headroom despite it's monster default clocks, but then again there is not nearly enough of bandwidth to feed it even at stock clocks.

AtenRa · Apr 23, 2016

The Stilt said:
It is included to the total price.

AM4 BR is pretty much pointless, since it is nothing but a Carrizo in disguise made available in desktop package. There won't basically be any overclocking either (outside increasing the BCLK, which is a extremely bad idea) since the rumor says AMD won't be releasing any unlocked BRs (for obvious reasons...).

What i mean is that you dont need an extra cooler for the Athlon but you do need for the bulk FX4300.

Also, you can start with a AM4 mobo and BristolRidge and then upgrade to ZEN in late 2016 early 2017.

DrMrLordX · Apr 23, 2016

The Stilt said:
Neither FX or "K" SKUs for BR seen so far

Damn. bclk OC or bust. That's going to cramp my style if I become an early AM4 adopter . . . might have to get a 7870k instead. Or something.

frozentundra123456 · Apr 23, 2016

Silverforce11 said:
You're missing the point. An A8 or A10 gaming APU setup for cheap, can easily acquire a cheap dGPU and drive modern games well because it's a true quad core. Whereas a duo core CPU + dGPU combo right off the bat can't, because it's CPU is limiting.

ie. Someone builds an A8 gaming rig to start of for cheap, if they later want a dGPU because they saved up some $, it will game very well.

No, you are missing the point or more likely trying to obfuscate it. I never advocated a pentium. My point is you can get much better performance from day one with something like an athlon x4 and a 250x level discrete card at a very small additional cost compared to the cost of a complete system. Cheapest is not necessarily a good value. And an apu is an even worse value if one decides later to add a discrete dgpu.

LTC8K6 · Apr 23, 2016

mohit9206 said:
Its crazy when you come to know that a stock 980Ti is 12 times faster than a GT730 Gddr5 and 14 times faster when overclocked!! Its insane!
$60 for Gt730 vs $600 for 980Ti.

This is possibly the fastest GT730 version, though I have never seen any benches to see how much the extra VRAM helps in any games. 384 cores and 2gb of GDDR5.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125775

Silverforce11 · Apr 23, 2016

frozentundra123456 said:
No, you are missing the point or more likely trying to obfuscate it. I never advocated a pentium. My point is you can get much better performance from day one with something like an athlon x4 and a 250x level discrete card at a very small additional cost compared to the cost of a complete system. Cheapest is not necessarily a good value. And an apu is an even worse value if one decides later to add a discrete dgpu.

If you're going with an 250x, why not go with a cheap A8 quad-core and hybrid CF?

http://www.eteknix.com/kaveri-hybrid-crossfire-a10-7850k-a10-7700k-r7-240-250/6/

Cheap setup that punches well above it's weight.

deasd · Apr 23, 2016

DrMrLordX said:
Damn. bclk OC or bust. That's going to cramp my style if I become an early AM4 adopter . . . might have to get a 7870k instead. Or something.

BR would be much more power efficient than Streamroller. Non-K is not that a serious problem, even intel focus on efficiency now, we should rejoice that AMD don't block BCLK OC.

IllogicalGlory · Apr 24, 2016

Silverforce11 said:
If you're going with an 250x, why not go with a cheap A8 quad-core and hybrid CF?

http://www.eteknix.com/kaveri-hybrid-crossfire-a10-7850k-a10-7700k-r7-240-250/6/

Cheap setup that punches well above it's weight.

Dual graphics is a terrible idea - spotty support, general multi-GPU woes, and you're buying overpriced refuse like the R7 240/250.

AtenRa · Apr 24, 2016

frozentundra123456 said:
And an apu is an even worse value if one decides later to add a discrete dgpu.

Why ??

DrMrLordX · Apr 24, 2016

deasd said:
BR would be much more power efficient than Streamroller.

Ehh not really. Voltage/power scaling beyond maybe 3 GHz is going to favor Kaveri. Beyond that, you're leaning on the IPC improvements of XV for it to be "worth it". The main draw is the improved graphics performance (color compression, etc) on Bristol Ridge.

we should rejoice that AMD don't block BCLK OC.

Too bad it can be so hard to do. Maybe bclk OC on AM4 will be easier than FM2+?

Abwx · Apr 24, 2016

DrMrLordX said:
Ehh not really. Voltage/power scaling beyond maybe 3 GHz is going to favor Kaveri.

That s not true, at the end this rumour need to be put to rest.

http://www.jagatoc.com/2016/03/hands-on-review-overclocking-athlon-x4-845-carrizo-murah-tanpa-igp/7/

frozentundra123456 · Apr 24, 2016

AtenRa said:
Why ??

Obviously because once you add a discrete card, the igpu is going to be wasted. It would have been better to buy a cheaper athlon x4 and the discrete card at the beginning. You would have saved money and enjoyed a better experience from the beginning.

AtenRa · Apr 24, 2016

frozentundra123456 said:
Obviously because once you add a discrete card, the igpu is going to be wasted. It would have been better to buy a cheaper athlon x4 and the discrete card at the beginning. You would have saved money and enjoyed a better experience from the beginning.

You can start with a A8-7650K APU at $95. This is an unlocked APU with the new quiet cooler. With this APU you can play some games even at 1080p and at that price you cannot get the Athlon + better dGPU. Later you can upgrade to a Polaris 11/10 dGPU. There is no problem starting with the APU and later upgrade to a dGPU, in fact you will spend less going this root if you are on a low budget in the first place.

frozentundra123456 · Apr 24, 2016

The apu is only cheaper if you buy an athlon with one dgpu now and upgrade the dgpu later. That is an unusual situation caused by having new dgpus just around the corner. The athlon is about 25.00 cheaper than the apu you listed, so obviously with the same dgpu the cost is less. Plus you can save a few dollars by using cheaper ram. If one absolutely has to have a system now, yes, it might make sense to live with the igpu and wait for the new dgpus. The cost will still be more, not less, but you will have a better dgpu. But that is a temporary situation that will no longer be the case when the dgpu market stabilizes.

The Stilt · Apr 24, 2016

There is basically no metric (other than power consumption) in which APU wins a CPU + dGPU combination.

I decided to test the difference between one of the cheapest R7 360 cards (from 104.90&#8364 and the A10-7870K.

In 3DMark Skydiver R7 360 is 66.9% faster and in Fire Strike 97.2% faster than a A10-7870K.

Even when 2/3 (768SP -> 256SP) of the CUs and half (16 -> 8) of the ROPs are turned off on R7 360, it still matches the A10-7870K in Fire Strike. Shows what kind of waste of die area 1/4 of the GPU CUs are on Steamroller. Even with the highest possible memory frequency of 2400MHz D:

Code:

AMD A10-7870K Boxed (old version, without Wraith) - 127.90&#8364;
ASUS A88X-PLUS - 76.90&#8364;
Mushkin DIMM 16GB DDR3-2400 Kit - 61.90&#8364;

Total: 266.70&#8364; incl. 19% tax

Code:

AMD Athlon X4 870K Boxed - 79.90&#8364;
ASUS A88X-PLUS - 76.90&#8364;
GIGABYTE GV-R736D5-2GD - 104.90&#8364;
Mushkin DIMM 16GB DDR3-1866 Kit - 53.90&#8364;

Total: 315.60&#8364; incl. 19% tax

Performance per €

3DMark Skydiver (A10-7870K): 25.35 / €
3DMark Fire Strike (A10-7870K): 6.719 / €

3DMark Skydiver (Athlon X4 870K + R7 360): 35.75 / € (+41%)
3DMark Fire Strike (Athlon X4 870K + R7 360): 11.197 / € (+66.64%)

In performance per watt APUs usually win, but not nearly always and not by a large margin. There are R7 360 cards which have TDP of 50-85W, so combined with the power consumption of a Athlon X4 870K (~70W), the total consumption will be 120-155W.

ps. GeAPM (3GHz throttling during iGPU activity) was disabled in all runs.

MiddleOfTheRoad · Apr 24, 2016

IllogicalGlory said:
Dual graphics is a terrible idea - spotty support, general multi-GPU woes, and you're buying overpriced refuse like the R7 240/250.

Dual graphics is an excellent idea -- it just hasn't been executed well so far.

DirectX12 can potentially make all iGPU's work in dual graphics without a need for a specific video card. Right now it sucks to not run your iGPU -- 40% of the Skylake's die is the GPU. That's a ton of real estate being wasted by not using it.

A10-7870K vs Athlon 860K + GT730 [AtenRa & cbn]

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