A64 90nm Prices

[Garyclaus16]

Hello, all. I have been coming to Anandtech for a month or so. I have been tracking the developments of the athlon64(new winchesters). I was under the impression that the prices were due to go down after the initial launch. I read it somewhere around here. Why are the prices increasing now? Is it because there is only one fab for amd? I guess it goes back the the supply/demand thing? I was just curious and would be grateful if anyone has any insight as to the future of the 90nm prices. Thanks!

 

[imported_Computer MAn]

I think the prices are increasing because they are very popular right now. They are great overclockers and are the first affordable processors on skt 939. Give it a couple of months and let the hype die down and then prices will drop

 

[AnnoyedGrunt]

I think it's only Newegg that is totally jacking up their prices.

I was looking @ Monarch computers, and their 90nm prices are very good. I think they had the 3200+ for $215 and free shipping.

I just ordered a bunch of stuff from newegg (case and DVDRW and card reader), but I think they will no longer be my first stop. Their business practices have gone downhill over that last year.

Here's the A64 section from Monarch. As Computer MAn mentioned, many of the chips are out of stock, but you can order at the low price or just wait for parts to come in I guess.
http://www.monarchcomputer.com...mp;Category_Code=AMD64

-D'oh!

 

[Mik3y]

its also because the demand for htem are so high. they're super overclockable also.

 

[Lithan]

Monarch had a monopoly. They jacked prices up. Newegg got them. They saw monarchs prices and jacked theirs up. Monarch realized they didn't have a monopoly and dropped theirs again.

 

[Mik3y]

holy crap lithan, thats such a harcore overclock you got there on your system! wowwy!

 

[AnnoyedGrunt]

Well dammit!

They both suck then!

But neweggs prices are still messed up. They are selling the 3200+ @ $275, up from $265 earlier today. But then again, they are out of stock so someone was buying @ $265.

Oh well, hopefully by the time NF4 comes out these chips will be more readily available and prices will be more stable.

-D'oh!

 

[Zebo]

wow so many people viing to pay twice for processor and twice for mobo just for dual channel. So you guys have the Carlton Sheets books or tapes?

 

[Lithan]

2800+ +msi nf3 250 754 = ~$250
3000+ +msi nf3 250 939 = ~$310

50-75$ more for a cooler running chip, dual channel, more upgradability, more overclockability and higher resale value. It's not as bad a deal as one might think zebo. Hell, people pay $300 extra for unlocked multis and 512k extra cache.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Lithan
2800+ +msi nf3 250 754 = ~$250
3000+ +msi nf3 250 939 = ~$310

50-75$ more for a cooler running chip, dual channel, more upgradability, more overclockability and higher resale value. It's not as bad a deal as one might think zebo. Hell, people pay $300 extra for unlocked multis and 512k extra cache.

Pfft

Try

$131 for 2800 *RETAIL* + $70 Chaintech VNF3 = $201

VS.

3000$188 + $8 for HSF + MSI mobo $145 = $341


I dunno about you but I don't pay 65% more money for 5% more performance... OC'ed or not, the performance diff is indescerable.

I'd much rather use the extra $140 to buy say a 6800 GT instead of a 6600, which will make a world of difference in performance..

Edit "People" are crazy.

 

[Garyclaus16]

I believe the reason I am going 939 is for the upgrading capabilities over socket 754 for later next year. Other than that, I guess the performance is not too great a factor.

 

[christoph83]

Edit "People" are crazy.

First of all you can get an MSI neo2 platinum for 131 and mwave was selling 3000 .09 chips but sold out today for 168. Thats 299. Second your right people would be crazy if they bought the socket 939 system to run at stock, but I don't think most people will do that. If you were able to OC like anandtech did and hit 2.6ghz, even 2.5ghz...the benchmarks show a minimum of 20% increase in performance and up to 50%. Over 30% in Unreal Tournament and over 50% in quake 3 and Wolfenstien. And thats compared to a socket 754 a64 3000 which is close to 10% faster than a 2800. For 100 extra dollars those number dont seem unworth it. Especially considering the upgradability and cooling. Not to mention the MSI board has more features, 2 more sata spots, 2 dual gigabit lan, firewire, 8 channel sound and the built in nvidia firewall. So its not like those extra 60 bucks on the board aren't going somewhere.

I think it should be said, if your going stock and good system then go with the 754 setup. If you want to overclock the 939 will more than likely fit you needs better if you have a budget to support it. Because your right, spending 300 dollars on a cpu + mobo then buying a 100 dollar video card to game isn't the smartest thing.

 

[Zebo]

First of all you can get an MSI neo2 platinum for 131 and mwave was selling 3000 .09 chips but sold out today for 168. Thats 299.
---------------------------
No it's not. Go look. Plus where's your HSF?


Second your right people would be crazy if they bought the socket 939 system to run at stock, but I don't think most people will do that. If you were able to OC like anandtech did and hit 2.6ghz, even 2.5ghz...the benchmarks show a minimum of 20% increase in performance and up to 50%. Over 30% in Unreal Tournament and over 50% in quake 3 and Wolfenstien. And thats compared to a socket 754 a64 3000 which is close to 10% faster than a 2800. For 100 extra dollars those number dont seem unworth it.
-------------------------
And you can't OC the 2800? I have my 3k at 2600 and most of my friends do 2800's to 2400-2600 negating this supposed advantage.


Not to mention the MSI board has more features, 2 more sata spots, 2 dual gigabit lan, firewire, 8 channel sound and the built in nvidia firewall. So its not like those extra 60 bucks on the board aren't going somewhere.
--------------------
MSI is a POS. I only put it there cause it's the best out of a bunch of POS 939 mobos. You're forgetting 754 has solid choices and cheap solid choices. And since you mention overclcoking I think that's even more important.


I think it should be said, if your going stock and good system then go with the 754 setup. If you want to overclock the 939 will more than likely fit you needs better if you have a budget to support it. Because your right, spending 300 dollars on a cpu + mobo then buying a 100 dollar video card to game isn't the smartest thing.
-----------------
I think overclocked or not you're spending 65% more money for 5% more performance which is a poor value. Add to the fact all 939 boards suck it's stupid and an emotional choice just to have dual channel.

 

[Zebo]

OP I forgot another point...

PM PlatniumGold and ask him how many 939 boards he had to try before finding one that worked with winchester. Most 939 boards, unless you get lucky, ship with a bios that won't even recognise your CPU.

****So If you do decide 939 is for you, be sure and get a tested combo or be prepared to hotflash with another board or have someone with a 939 NC than can flash your mobo.

 

[Nikodem]

Errr, Zebo. You might want to reread what you quoted. He said MWave WAS selling it at that price, unless you were refering to the Motherboard, which IS selling at $131 at Newegg.

 

[christoph83]

Originally posted by: Zebo

First of all you can get an MSI neo2 platinum for 131 and mwave was selling 3000 .09 chips but sold out today for 168. Thats 299.
---------------------------
No it's not. Go look. Plus where's your HSF?


Second your right people would be crazy if they bought the socket 939 system to run at stock, but I don't think most people will do that. If you were able to OC like anandtech did and hit 2.6ghz, even 2.5ghz...the benchmarks show a minimum of 20% increase in performance and up to 50%. Over 30% in Unreal Tournament and over 50% in quake 3 and Wolfenstien. And thats compared to a socket 754 a64 3000 which is close to 10% faster than a 2800. For 100 extra dollars those number dont seem unworth it.
-------------------------
And you can't OC the 2800? I have my 3k at 2600 and most of my friends do 2800's to 2400-2600 negating this supposed advantage.


Not to mention the MSI board has more features, 2 more sata spots, 2 dual gigabit lan, firewire, 8 channel sound and the built in nvidia firewall. So its not like those extra 60 bucks on the board aren't going somewhere.
--------------------
MSI is a POS. I only put it there cause it's the best out of a bunch of POS 939 mobos. You're forgetting 754 has solid choices and cheap solid choices. And since you mention overclcoking I think that's even more important.


I think it should be said, if your going stock and good system then go with the 754 setup. If you want to overclock the 939 will more than likely fit you needs better if you have a budget to support it. Because your right, spending 300 dollars on a cpu + mobo then buying a 100 dollar video card to game isn't the smartest thing.
-----------------
I think overclocked or not you're spending 65% more money for 5% more performance which is a poor value. Add to the fact all 939 boards suck it's stupid and an emotional choice just to have dual channel.

Msi mobo is 131 at newegg here. MSI is not POS. Anandtech even praised the board and most of the boards in the review. Notice they said all these boards are winners? Just because you see some guy say he has issues with a board in the forums doesn't mean squat. People posted problems with the chaintech board here all the time, same with the msi neo platinum. If you dont agree go check out the msi official boards. Most of the time it's user error. Not to mention these socket 939 boards are the same chipset with just dual channel. So go ahead and disagree with anandtech the ones who said both the msi neo platinum, a good 754 board, got just as high of ratings at the current 939 board.

Now onto the 2800 64. This is definitely not a garunteed. A 2800 64 hitting 2.4-2.6ghz is a rarity otherwise more people would have been buying them. I have a 3000 that will only run 2.35ghz with 1.7v. Based of anandtechs remarks he made it sound like a .09 should hit 2.5-2.6ghz consistently. If this isn't the case and these chips only hit 2.2 most of the time then this isn't a valid recommendation.

The chip on mwave has a retail fan included. Its the retail version. If you need something better a zalman is always a consideration. ALSO the new winchesters are 2-7% faster according to anandtech with an average of 3%. So that puts us at 8% faster. What we should be comparing is a .13 3000 with a 3000 .09 because they are basically the same with winchester improvements. That puts us at a 70 dollar difference. Now throw in upgradability, cooling, potential 2.6ghz overclocking consistency(which is fx55 + speeds and 800 dollar chip), many more motherboard features, that extra 70 dollars is worth it to some people.

Not to mention chaintech will have an nforce 4 based motherboard coming out more than likely in the sub 100 range, and hopefully other manufactures which will make this whole socket 754 conversation over.

People would not be this interested in a chip hitting 2.6ghz if newcastle were consistantly doing it before. Check the overclockers forums a64 posting and you'll even see the max overclocks on newcastle chips seem to be getting lower with more voltage needed. And I've noticed more and more users are hitting lower overclocks with new setups. Like mine.

I've seen you on these forums trashing socket 939 because of this 70 dollar price difference and crappy 939 boards which is an opinion. I would get it out of your system because its not going to be that way for long.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Nikodem
Errr, Zebo. You might want to reread what you quoted. He said MWave WAS selling it at that price, unless you were refering to the Motherboard, which IS selling at $131 at Newegg.

He said "that's $299" I said " no it's not " It can't be bought now at that price, can it? OOS, Was, shoulda, coulda does'nt mean anything. Futhermore, even at this mythical $299, it's a poor value for reasons stated.

 

[christoph83]

Originally posted by: Zebo
OP I forgot another point...

PM PlatniumGold and ask him how many 939 boards he had to try before finding one that worked with winchester. Most 939 boards, unless you get lucky, ship with a bios that won't even recognise your CPU.

****So If you do decide 939 is for you, be sure and get a tested combo or be prepared to hotflash with another board or have someone with a 939 NC than can flash your mobo.

MSI neo2 platinum works fine. You just need to run the board with one stick of RAM instead of 2 at first, for some reason it has issues with the dual channel. Post it up then flash the bios to the newest and your all set. And thats even if you get an older bios, some people are getting the newest bios without issues.

 

[Zebo]

AT mobo reviews are a JOKE.

Anandtech has problems with an MSI board its 939 roundup article but priase the POS anyway:

"We feel similarly about the MSI K8T Neo2-FIR, which was somewhat a surprise as the socket 754 K8T Neo was a favorite. Our concern is based on the fact that we went through 3 K8T Neo2 boards before we got one that really worked. That may just be coincidence, but it raises concern about the quality assurance of this particular product. "

LOL, They went though 3 mobos before finding one that works but still gives it editors choice? GMAB.
Face it. Class action suits, cheap chineese caps, mobo fires can't all be wrong . MSI sucks. User error has nothing to do with it. Crap QC and componets does. Buy the crap I don't care but you're not going to stop me from telling people what a POS they are.


Re 939 and MSI: I trust real enthusiasts far more than anandtech's cherry picked products delivered form manufactures.
S939 mobos - They all suck, what's the point??


As far as overlocking, All AX core, meaning later rev, NC will hit 2400-2600. No exceptions I've seen. Your's is either a AP core or running on a MSI mobo if you can only hit 2.3.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: christoph83

Originally posted by: Zebo
OP I forgot another point...

PM PlatniumGold and ask him how many 939 boards he had to try before finding one that worked with winchester. Most 939 boards, unless you get lucky, ship with a bios that won't even recognise your CPU.

****So If you do decide 939 is for you, be sure and get a tested combo or be prepared to hotflash with another board or have someone with a 939 NC than can flash your mobo.

MSI neo2 platinum works fine. You just need to run the board with one stick of RAM instead of 2 at first, for some reason it has issues with the dual channel. Post it up then flash the bios to the newest and your all set. And thats even if you get an older bios, some people are getting the newest bios without issues.

Wrong we tried that and so have others.

 

[christoph83]

Originally posted by: Zebo
AT mobo reviews are a JOKE.

Anandtech has problems with an MSI board its 939 roundup article but priase the POS anyway:

"We feel similarly about the MSI K8T Neo2-FIR, which was somewhat a surprise as the socket 754 K8T Neo was a favorite. Our concern is based on the fact that we went through 3 K8T Neo2 boards before we got one that really worked. That may just be coincidence, but it raises concern about the quality assurance of this particular product. "

LOL, They went though 3 mobos before finding one that works but still gives it editors choice? GMAB.
Face it. Class action suits, cheap chineese caps, mobo fires can't all be wrong . MSI sucks. User error has nothing to do with it. Crap QC and componets does. Buy the crap I don't care but you're not going to stop me from telling people what a POS they are.


Re 939 and MSI: I trust real enthusiasts far more than anandtech's cherry picked products delivered form manufactures.
S939 mobos - They all suck, what's the point??


As far as overlocking, All AX core, meaning later rev, NC will hit 2400-2600. No exceptions I've seen. Your's is either a AP core or running on a MSI mobo if you can only hit 2.3.

You mean you trust one board with 5 pages of posts. Wow? Put in VNF3 in search in the motherboard section and see how many problems pop up. And maybe if you went to the link I gave you, you'll see that most people were hitting 2.4ghz recently on AX chips with 1.7 + Voltage which starts to get into a possible unsafe area. EVEN on 2.2ghz chips they were topping at 2.4ghz. Mines an AX and its not the board holding me back, the cpu fails prime over 2.35ghz at 10x235 and will run 9x260 fine so its not a max FSB issue. It's not a memory issue as ive run it at 133 divider on p3200 ram and run memtest. These chips don't seem to be doing as well as before.

Read the anandtech article again. The K8T Neo2 didn't get editor's choice. You must be confusing the board with the K8N. Not to mention anandtech bashes the K8T board, a sentence you conveniently left out.

However, we think that this board needs to mature a bit more before it turns into a board that will satisfy most enthusiasts. We feel similarly about the MSI K8T Neo2-FIR, which was somewhat a surprise as the socket 754 K8T Neo was a favorite. Our concern is based on the fact that we went through 3 K8T Neo2 boards before we got one that really worked. That may just be coincidence, but it raises concern about the quality assurance of this particular product.

You really seem to be trying your hardest to trash 939 over 70 bucks.939 boards are fine, get over it. Many users at overclockers are having no problems with these boards. But you dont see that much, you see all the problems. Maybe you should start a poll in the motherboard or general hardware section and see how many users are happy with their 939 board, and others who had too many problems and had to drop them.

It's not like were comparing a .13 2800 to an fx-55 and trying to see if its really worth it or not. It's 70 bucks, and its not like your not getting extra features for it. Some people do find value in upgradability you know. The overclocking and motherboard features are just another big plus.

And BTW, if you think anandtech sucks for reviews go find a review that trashed the msi neo2 platinum. Most if not all of the reviews are good.

 

[Gnoad]

God, listen. Socket 939 for who can afford it, socket 754 for those that want to save a couple bucks. Whats it matter to other people if they buy something different than you do because they have a different financial situation? It's neither a waste of money nor lack of intelligence.

 

[christoph83]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: christoph83

Originally posted by: Zebo
OP I forgot another point...

PM PlatniumGold and ask him how many 939 boards he had to try before finding one that worked with winchester. Most 939 boards, unless you get lucky, ship with a bios that won't even recognise your CPU.

****So If you do decide 939 is for you, be sure and get a tested combo or be prepared to hotflash with another board or have someone with a 939 NC than can flash your mobo.

MSI neo2 platinum works fine. You just need to run the board with one stick of RAM instead of 2 at first, for some reason it has issues with the dual channel. Post it up then flash the bios to the newest and your all set. And thats even if you get an older bios, some people are getting the newest bios without issues.

Wrong we tried that and so have others.

People over at the MSI forums are having no issues with winchesters if you follow those steps.
If you have a 1.1 bios make sure only one stick is in and it will post then upgrade to the 1.3 bios.
Some users even came with 1.3 . These are enthusiasts right? People you trust? Maybe you guys fall into that category of user error like most of the motherboard problems that crop up.

 

[christoph83]

Originally posted by: Gnoad
God, listen. Socket 939 for who can afford it, socket 754 for those that want to save a couple bucks. Whats it matter to other people if they buy something different than you do because they have a different financial situation? It's neither a waste of money nor lack of intelligence.

:thumbsup:

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Gnoad
God, listen. Socket 939 for who can afford it, socket 754 for those that want to save a couple bucks. Whats it matter to other people if they buy something different than you do because they have a different financial situation? It's neither a waste of money nor lack of intelligence.

Duh. However obviously price is a concern for the OP or he would'nt be whineing about thier expense. Did you even read the orginal post?

I was addressing his concern, pointing out 939's price to performance ratio sucks right now and he'd be better off with an affordable 754 solution.