A64 vs P4 3.2

[Sparky19692]

I'm a new member to this site however; I have always built my own PC's since the 286 days.
This is the first time that I am really at a loss for what to build. My existing home PC is OLD.
I'm looking between P4 540 and Athlon 64 3200. There really is not enough price difference to make the A64 a no brainier. I will be using the PC for MS Office tasks, Solid Works, and AutoCAD as well as gaming.
Here are my big questions

1, is ddr2 worth the extra monies? ddr4200 corsair $110 vs ddr24200 corsair $154 you need different MB
2, PCI-E vs AGP I think PCI-E is the way to go for upgrades later?
3, Sata vs UTA leaning to SATA RAID 0

Guru's please reply with reasons not just opinions.

Thanks in advance

Sparky

 

[RussianSensation]

Business/Office apps
Business Apps 2
A64 seems to be better for Office applications (it's also faster in WinRAR)

Gaming
A64 is better for gaming.

Dont' know much about AutoCAD performance, but based on this, A64 should be fairly adequate.
AutoCAD with XP3200+

Performance Summary

Unless you do a lot of multitasking, for your needs, I'd get A64. With 64-bit operating system, performance should only improve. Get socket 939 so you have a longer upgrade path.

Go with SATA drives since the cables are more convenient to use and newer motherboards are reducing the number of IDE connectors on the motherboards (limiting your future "reuse" of current IDE drives). Get 74 gig raptor if you can afford it, or if you need space get 300gb Maxtor III with 16mb cache (to enable NCQ you'd need a chipset that supports it => so far only 915/925 (intel) and nforce 4 do). NCQ and 16mb advantage review

I don't think PCIe vs. AGP is that big of a concern. Videocard companies should provide to the most common denominator to make $$$. So I am betting that next 1 or 2 videocard cycles, we will still see top of the line AGP cards.

If you want to be on the safe side, just get Nforce 4 mobo and PCIe videocard. DDRII is not worth it (especially since right now it only applies to P4 side - it costs more money, has worse timings, and "overall" system performance is generally not affected - DDR vs. DDRII)

Welcome to Anandtech.

 

[TDiddy]

thanks for helpin him out

 

[Sparky19692]

Great info.
out of curiosity how for can you OC the 64 and what would you recomment for DDR speed? as high as I can offord for OC with FBS taken in for consideration I have heared that the 64 is less fussy with this.

 

[Markfw]

Socket 939 3500+ is what I would get based on what I have read above for your needs. Its only a little more, and just dropped in price. They OC OK, I got my 3200 Winchester (2.0 ghz) to 2235 on air, and plain PC3200 should get you the same or better. I gues I just got unlucky, as many are getting 2400-2600.

 

[RussianSensation]

A64 3200+ 90nm = $185 @ 2.0ghz should hit 2.3-2.4

A64 3500+ 90nm = $252 @ 2.2ghz should hit 2.4-2.5 or higher depending on your luck.

You'll need good heatsink and fan of course.

You'll have to use ram ratios since your ram is rated at PC3200 and you never mentioned if it is "overclockers ram."

good luck.

 

[Sparky19692]

Just bouncing this out there let me know if I'm crazy. A64 3000+ 90nm are repoted stable at 2.6GHZ and A64 3500+ are only stable up to 2.6 would it not be true just to run the 3000 with OC? Also a question on ram all the A64 939 boards out there only support DDR3200, would it be true to say that if you install DDR4200 or DDR4400 that your system would run stable witout having to run a memory ratio? I know a lot of questions. I would rather do it right than do it twice.

 

[fbrdphreak]

Right now, the highest OFFICIAL memory standard is DDR400 (PC-3200). To achieve the higher speeds rated on different memories, an overclock is required. I have heard stories of the 3000+ 90nm hitting 2.4GHz+, but I would say those are the lucky ones. To ensure the best OCing, here is what you need to concentrate on:
High-Quality Memory
HIGH-Quality PSU
Board well known for OCing
Chip well known for OCing

DO NOT skimp on the memory or the PSU, as that will make all the difference in OCing. I know with the 130nm A64's, there were specific core's & lot #'s that OCed very well (IIRC, Newcastle core w/CG stepping). Do some searching and see if this applies to 90nm as well. Also, get feedback on coolers for the A64 as that will also be important to your OC.

 

[Thermalrock]

ok the 3500+ is the better part, period. unless someone gets very very lucky with his 3000+ and someone very very unlucky with his 3500+ at the same time the 3500+ will be able to do whatever the 3000+ can do and then some. top clocks havent advanced so far above the clocks of these chips that theyre the same and just underclocked parts. they sell as 3200+ what doesnt meet the 3500+ requirements. if you wait till we see .09 a64s run at 3ghz or more ctock its gonna be safe to assume that 1800 and 2200 mhz parts will just be underclocked xxxx parts and overclock to equal speeds. but right now the 2200 or 3500+ is the fastest winchester and 3200+s and 3000+s arent just underclocked but chips that amd found not capable of running stable at 2200 mhz with stock cooling and stock voltage.

 

[Markfw]

Good example is me. I can NOT get over 2335 STABLE under F@H with a Thermaltake SilenBoost K8 (the same one used by Anand to get to 2.6) and I have an Antec True power 380 PSU, and the old GOOD Kingston Kyperx PC3500 CAS2 memory and a 90nm 3200 939 pin. I have the right parts, but unless I crank the voltage up to where it runs over 70c under load, 2335 is the best at 1.5v running 59c, 76f ambient. Thats as hot as I want to run.

So if I was to have gotten the 3500+ I probably would be at 2535 (just a guess)

 

[Thermalrock]

Originally posted by: Markfw900
Good example is me. I can NOT get over 2335 STABLE under F@H with a Thermaltake SilenBoost K8 (the same one used by Anand to get to 2.6) and I have an Antec True power 380 PSU, and the old GOOD Kingston Kyperx PC3500 CAS2 memory and a 90nm 3200 939 pin. I have the right parts, but unless I crank the voltage up to where it runs over 70c under load, 2335 is the best at 1.5v running 59c, 76f ambient. Thats as hot as I want to run.

So if I was to have gotten the 3500+ I probably would be at 2535 (just a guess)

what you running a silly 3200+ for when you got dual 248s?

 

[Markfw]

Originally posted by: Thermalrock

Originally posted by: Markfw900
Good example is me. I can NOT get over 2335 STABLE under F@H with a Thermaltake SilenBoost K8 (the same one used by Anand to get to 2.6) and I have an Antec True power 380 PSU, and the old GOOD Kingston Kyperx PC3500 CAS2 memory and a 90nm 3200 939 pin. I have the right parts, but unless I crank the voltage up to where it runs over 70c under load, 2335 is the best at 1.5v running 59c, 76f ambient. Thats as hot as I want to run.

So if I was to have gotten the 3500+ I probably would be at 2535 (just a guess)

what you running a silly 3200+ for when you got dual 248s?

Because I need a new toy to play with. When the 939 pin 90nm parts looked like they would OC so great, I thought it would be a great new toy to play with, to see how high I could OC it. I also have a 3000+ Athlon64 (one of the first) at 2100. Won't go much over that though. I also have 3 2500+ @3200+ speeds (well not quite, about 2100 average, more like a 3050 or 3100 speed) One of them won;t go over 184 under F@H. It really is a great tool to see how stable your machine is, and it shows up with probs in less than a day, many times in 30 minutes !

Edit I have 11 rigs now, and plan on building one after black friday sales. I can;t fit them in the "My rigs" page, as that stops at 10.

 

[Thermalrock]

hehe. you do know that gluttony/immoderateness/excess is a deadly sin do you?

 

[AMDbloke]

My athlon 64 socket 754 3000+ is running at 2.5 Ghz on 1.55 Vcore. The amd64's do some decent overclocks. You can use standard PC3200 ram to overclock, but youll have to set the ram down from 400 Mhz to 333 in the bios; the higher fsb will fill in the rest to bring it back up to the 400+ Mhz area. You can also just get PC4000 ram and overclock the system at a 1:1 ratio....the best results are there.

 

[Markfw]

Originally posted by: Thermalrock
hehe. you do know that gluttony/immoderateness/excess is a deadly sin do you?

If you check the F@H user list, you will see that I am using this power in what I think is one of the best causes around, to cure cancer, parinsons, altzhemers (Spelling). So there is a method to my madness....(and the kids, my son and his friends, love all the PC's for lan games too.....)

 

[Thermalrock]

well being german and stuff i guess i should help you with that spelling. 'alzheimer' which my grand mother has , 'parkinson' (this word isnt german at all tho so you should have been able to spell that one ) and cancer, what ill have in a few years since i smoke too much, are all not desirable so i probably should take back what i said and let you do your thing?

 

[fbrdphreak]

:thumbsup: Markfw900
Maybe I should take all this idle time my A64 is seeing when I'm in class/studying on my Thinkpad & put it to use, eh?

 

[Markfw]

OK, we got to stop hijacking this thread.

OP, any more info we can provide ?? Sorry about the aside comments.

 

[w00t]

Rofl....that is all i got to say

 

[w00t]

ddr2 is worse that ddr
pci express is not anyfaster we can not utilize 16x unless SLI but i am gonna get it for the nf4 boards so yes i would say its better upgrade but no difference.
and raid 0 is faster than sata

the best processors right now are AMD
amd fx-55 > any intel processor
note: in gaming

 

[stelleg151]

I am going to have to disagree with some comparisons of the 3500+, 3200+ and 3000+, because most people at HardOCP and XtremeSystems have been able to get their 3000+ and 3200+ winchesters to at least 2500, usually 2600, on air. The only thing that really varies is how much voltage they give the chip, but none have had to give anything more than 1.65 volts, as far as I can tell. What really will limit your overclockability is your understanding of all the factors that will limit your OC, your mobo, and your chip, but I do not believe that and of the winchesters coming how now are unable to reach 2500mhz. And btw anyone who thinks that value pc3200 will limit your CPU OC you shouldnt be listening to.

 

[Shenkoa]

OMFG, people her act like the Athlon 64 is the only damn processor around. Stupid fanboys.

The P4 3.2C is just as good as the 64 3200+. At any rate, go with whatever your wallet will handle. You cant go wrong with either setup.

 

[Thermalrock]

yea anyway the athlons better in most cases. keep your crap about ppl saying this being fanboys to yourself. id say 99.5% of the ppl who say the athlon is better say that because the athlon is the better cpu in their opinion. they do not say that because they are built by amd. amd has no nicely shaped boobs it flashes in the movies and doesnt have sexy legs in a video clip mtv runs. theres no reason to have positive feelings about a company if their product isnt superior in some way (assuming you do not work for that company, dont own it,...). yes i buy athlons. because amd makes em? no. need proof? i also buy centrino notebooks and those dont run mobile amd cpus and are more expensive than amd based notebooks. pretty much everyone i know does this too.
buying a product that you believe is the better deal does not make you a fanboy and sharing your opinions with other ppl doesnt either. now had you just said you think the P4 is as good or even better, whatever. that would be you sharing your opinion. however your 'omfg stupid fanboys' is a rather emotional reaction to someone not sharing your opinion, kinda as if your 'p4 3.2c' were your girl friend someone insulted and you feel the urge to stick up for her.

 

[Thermalrock]

and yes, the p4 isnt a bad choice either.

 

[Thermalrock]

Originally posted by: w00t
ddr2 is worse that ddr
pci express is not anyfaster we can not utilize 16x unless SLI but i am gonna get it for the nf4 boards so yes i would say its better upgrade but no difference.
and raid 0 is faster than sata

the best processors right now are AMD
amd fx-55 > any intel processor
note: in gaming

pci-e 1x is alot faster than pci and will give you the option to add cards that can do stuff pci cards cant, and pci has been a bottleneck for quite some time. id take pci-e board over agp/pci board any day even tho the video card performance wont be any better (for now, soon with faster cards it will...) for that reason. i agree about ddr2 being worse than ddr. can get them 533mgh easily with ddr without the higher timings and all that cheaper.