A8N-SLI Deluxe: many defective boards identified

[FastEddie]

I agree, however, other SLI boards are going to be very similar electronically. It's the nature of the beast. The only exception I've observed in the released and soon to be released boards is Gigabytes SLI board, where it adds a second layer for 6phase power! I wonder why they did that?

I know this is a real hard thing for some to accept, but do you think that if the dual rail psu's that are branded "For PCI-E//SLI" would have such light amperage on the rail that's needed most? If these were engineered for SLI proper, you'd be seeing these supplies with a 24a 12v rail for the mobo and an 18a 12v rail for the graphics array and drives. That makes sense. To have dual 15a 12v rails works real well in dully boards, where each processor and set of memory banks get their own rail. Alot of peeps had problems with some of these psu's on NF3 Ultra boards, where the main item added was a fourth memory slot.

 

[michaeldorian]

Hi,

Has anyone tried this yet? Any taughts? Does this actually help anybody? Solve any stability problems? I dream of stability.


Beta Drivers - ForceWare

ForceWare Release 65
Version: 67.66
Release Date: January 18, 2005
BETA Driver


http://nzone.com/object/nzone_...ds_winxp_2k_67.66.html

Going to try it when I get home. I hope this addresses some things.

Michael

 

[michaeldorian]

Just wanted to let you guys know that base on GuitarDaddy's advice I lowered the times for my 3200XLPRO DDR to 2-3-2-5 from its stock 2-2-2-5 and it appears to run stable. Running the Sandra Burn in process and on pass 4 with no problems. The weird thing is I was able to pass Memtest86 with stock timing without errors.

 

[TheNiceGuy]

I just read somewhere that Intel was the first one to introduce dual rails to the average home PC - get this - because it reduces the electric shock someone may recieve.

 

[ahurtt]

Originally posted by: michaeldorian
Hi,

Has anyone tried this yet? Any taughts? Does this actually help anybody? Solve any stability problems? I dream of stability.


Beta Drivers - ForceWare

ForceWare Release 65
Version: 67.66
Release Date: January 18, 2005
BETA Driver


http://nzone.com/object/nzone_...ds_winxp_2k_67.66.html

Going to try it when I get home. I hope this addresses some things.

Michael

Those are probably the drivers that disable SLI capability for the nForce 4 Ultra seeing as how those drivers are dated yesterday and very hot on the heels of the news that SLI could be done with a cheaper nForce 4 Ultra chips and not just the advertised SLI chips. I think nVidia tried the old "security by obscurity" trick but they were quickly found out by some sharp engineers.

 

[BigGreenMat]

The motherboard CPU and RAM all have as much access to as much amperage as they want on a NEOPower if Asus's diagrams are correct. The Motherboard is supplied with the FULL 32a. With at least 15a of that being exclusively drawn to the motherboard. The additional 18a rail can either be drawn by the motherboard, the pci-e connector, the sata connectors, or the molex connectors. As far as I can tell the motherboard is NOT being shortchanged at all by this setup. I don't know how other powersupplies are set up, but the Antec NEOpower 480 looks to never shortchange the motherboard, cpu, ram or slots. The only thing that might get shortchanged would be peripherals if too many are added. So basically the formula works out like this motherboard and everything drawing from it get 15a + Xa and then everything else gets 18a - Xa. Seems like a fine design to me.

 

[bradley]

Originally posted by: TheNiceGuy
I just read somewhere that Intel was the first one to introduce dual rails to the average home PC - get this - because it reduces the electric shock someone may recieve.

Yes, dual lines are a suggested part of Intel's ATX12V V2.0 standard.

 

[JMag]

Originally posted by: barkeley
There may be issues between some of these PSU and THIS motherboard. But before only blaming two rails PSU in general as inapropriate for SLI I'd wait how other SLI motherboards behave.

I can and do blame my EPS12v PSU on my stability problems with my a8n-sli. It is a PC Power and Cooling 510w nontheless. I put it back in my p4 rig last night and it works fine, ran prime for 5 hours.
However, if I use it in my a8n-sli machine it will turn off in random intervals, someitmes 5 mins sometimes 45mins, but it is DEFINATELY dual rail PSU related.

 

[FastEddie]

Originally posted by: JMag

Originally posted by: barkeley
There may be issues between some of these PSU and THIS motherboard. But before only blaming two rails PSU in general as inapropriate for SLI I'd wait how other SLI motherboards behave.

I can and do blame my EPS12v PSU on my stability problems with my a8n-sli. It is a PC Power and Cooling 510w nontheless. I put it back in my p4 rig last night and it works fine, ran prime for 5 hours.
However, if I use it in my a8n-sli machine it will turn off in random intervals, someitmes 5 mins sometimes 45mins, but it is DEFINATELY dual rail PSU related.

I agree. And that's because one rail of a dual 12v psu can't supply enough power to the motherboard.

 

[barkeley]

Originally posted by: JMag

I can and do blame my EPS12v PSU on my stability problems with my a8n-sli. It is a PC Power and Cooling 510w nontheless. I put it back in my p4 rig last night and it works fine, ran prime for 5 hours.
However, if I use it in my a8n-sli machine it will turn off in random intervals, someitmes 5 mins sometimes 45mins, but it is DEFINATELY dual rail PSU related.

You don't get my point. I'm not questioning the fact this PSU doesn't fit with ASUS SLI and it is dual rail related, I am wondering which part isn't where it should be. One says those dual rail PSU are not fit for SLI and shouldn't advertise "SLI ready", I answer wait until you get the same problem with other SLI motherboards first before saying the issue is on the PSU.
Afterall, this Ezplug you don't find on other SLI motherboards sounds like this board has a power issue and needs this shot at the root of video cards to compensate the lost through the motherboard.
I would be curious to compare power consumption between boards with same CPU, video cards etc..

 

[Vtach]

I have a antech true power 550 atx12v for my new a8n sli mb is that ok?

 

[Vtach]

also when I plug in the pws the last 4 connections are open I assume I need an adapter of some sort if so what do i need to get?

 

[Dijital]

Originally posted by: Vtach
also when I plug in the pws the last 4 connections are open I assume I need an adapter of some sort if so what do i need to get?

you need a 20 pin to 24 pin adapter

 

[jelliott]

After questioning OCZ techs in depth, including using the old copy/paste deal as well as pointing them to this thread, this is not true of all dual rail PSU's.

What that guy was saying is that he thinks the board only gets 20A which isn't correct. The ATX plug gets 20A and then the molex lines and the 12V aux connector get the other 18A......so in theory the board could draw all 38A if needed.

The rails are seperate but he is assuming that 20A goes to the board and then 18 to the molex plugs. This isn't the case and that's why he is off. On our PSU's...not sure about antec and the rest but 20A goes to the ATX connector and then 18A goes to the 12V aux connector and molex plugs. The power is very well distributed.

Now, If there is a problem using, say an OCZ 600 watt with 20a/18a, it would be an ASUS problem, but with dual rail, the mobo doesn't care if it has dual rail, as long as the juice is there. Either way, just like circuit breakers in your house, how many 20amp circuits do you have? If you cant add them up, your whole house would be on a limit of 20amps for everything you use. Not only that, there would be a class action suit against MANY PSU companies for advertising "total 38amps" or whatever the number happens to be... IMO

But, I will have my 2 BFG GTOC's tomorrow and we shall find out. there are MANY OCZ 600's and even 520 users that are running fx-55 with dual 6800 Ultras and 4 HD's.. But with anything that is brand new, there MAY be a problem with the Asus board.

i understand some people have swapped the PSU and everythig works fine after than, that PSU may have had a problem, everything thing in the word WILL break, it's a question of when...

 

[GuitarDaddy]

Vtac

Your Antec 550 is fine. I've been using the same PS for over a month now with 0 issue. And you don't need an adapter, just leave the 4 pins closest to the VGA cards open. The 4 pins left open are an extra supply for each of the three rails and a ground.

 

[GuitarDaddy]

Originally posted by: jelliott
After questioning OCZ techs in depth, including using the old copy/paste deal as well as pointing them to this thread, this is not true of all dual rail PSU's.

What that guy was saying is that he thinks the board only gets 20A which isn't correct. The ATX plug gets 20A and then the molex lines and the 12V aux connector get the other 18A......so in theory the board could draw all 38A if needed.

The rails are seperate but he is assuming that 20A goes to the board and then 18 to the molex plugs. This isn't the case and that's why he is off. On our PSU's...not sure about antec and the rest but 20A goes to the ATX connector and then 18A goes to the 12V aux connector and molex plugs. The power is very well distributed.

Now, If there is a problem using, say an OCZ 600 watt with 20a/18a, it would be an ASUS problem, but with dual rail, the mobo doesn't care if it has dual rail, as long as the juice is there. Either way, just like circuit breakers in your house, how many 20amp circuits do you have? If you cant add them up, your whole house would be on a limit of 20amps for everything you use. Not only that, there would be a class action suit against MANY PSU companies for advertising "total 38amps" or whatever the number happens to be... IMO

But, I will have my 2 BFG GTOC's tomorrow and we shall find out. there are MANY OZC 600's and even 520 users that are running fx-55 with dual 6800 Ultras and 4 HD's.. But with anything that is brand new, there MAY be a problem with the Asus board.

i understand some people have swapped the PSU and everythig works fine after than, that PSU may have had a problem, everything thing in the word WILL break, it's a question of when...

Buy into that if you want too, but it is wrong! Read a basic electronics book!

The amps on two seperate rails can NOT be added together. If you have two rails one 20a and one 18a, the most any component including the mobo can draw is 20a period. Adding amps together in this fashion is like saying two cars traveling 100mph each are combined traveling 200mph! Just wrong!

A dual rail power supply is essentially two small PS's in one box. Nothing in the box produces more than 20a, therefore nothing can draw more than 20a.

 

[Dug]

Originally posted by: GuitarDaddy
Most everyone having power related problems with this board seem to fall in 2 categories

1. Dual Rail Power Supplies - They are terrible for this board! This board needs 25a to the motherboard. the best dual rail I've seen is 20a and 18a. Most are like 15a and 15a. And regardless of what anybody tells you 15a + 15a = 15a, not 30a. Replace your power supply with a quality single rail PS and your problems will go away. Dual rail power supplies where made for, and best suited for servers supporting multiple hard drive arrays, not SLI motherboards supporting dual graphics cards.

2. Offbrand(cheap) power supplies. Just in the posts you reference I noted AKASA and ULTRA Xconnect. The ULTRA Xconnect has only been out a few months and is already legendary for its poor quality.
With the incredible power requirement created by 2 high end graphics cards using anything less than a top quality power supply rated >=25a from the top makers Antec, Enermax, Fortron, OCZ, Seasonic, PC P&C, etc... is just asking for trouble.

If the motherboard needed 25a alone then no dual rail power supply would work. In fact your computer wouldn't even boot up.

 

[FastEddie]

Originally posted by: jelliott
After questioning OCZ techs in depth,

The rails are seperate but he is assuming that 20A goes to the board and then 18 to the molex plugs. This isn't the case and that's why he is off. On our PSU's...not sure about antec and the rest but 20A goes to the ATX connector and then 18A goes to the 12V aux connector and molex plugs. The power is very well distributed.[/i]

Here's where the OXZ Tech is off base. The 12v AUX Connector supplies the processor and memory traces from the dimm sockets to the processor. It's not used for anythingelse on the board. That connector doesn't supply the PCI-E slots, not the pci slots, or any of the onboard perifs! The amperage at the ATX power connector does that. So, if the ATX connector is maxed at, say 20 amps on the 12v rail, but needs essential 22.5amps from that source---where is it going to get it from? It can't take it from the 12v AUX connector!

 

[scruffles]

hi, I just ordered the asus bla deluxe and i have a new case and power source combo. The 3500AMB from Antec. It comes with a 350w psu. I would jsut test it but i don't know if that can damage any parts(psu, mobo, 3500+ amd 64, etc. Is it something i can jsut try and fail and not lose alot of money! Or, can it burn everything out somehow?

I know that 350 is a bit low but antec psu's are rated really high everywhere i look, so i figure they're pretty good. The amp on the psu is 5v-35a, 12v-21a, and 3l3v-28a.

any insight would be greatly appreciated. I'm a noob at this stuff, just don't want to screw everythign up.

The psu would have to power:

AMD 3500+64
1 gig corsair value ram
74 gig raptor 10,000rpm
1 Chaintech 6600 gt
1 stock cpu fan.
1 120 mm fan at back of case.

 

[FastEddie]

Originally posted by: scruffles
hi, I just ordered the asus bla deluxe and i have a new case and power source combo. The 3500AMB from Antec. It comes with a 350w psu. I would jsut test it but i don't know if that can damage any parts(psu, mobo, 3500+ amd 64, etc. Is it something i can jsut try and fail and not lose alot of money! Or, can it burn everything out somehow?

I know that 350 is a bit low but antec psu's are rated really high everywhere i look, so i figure they're pretty good. The amp on the psu is 5v-35a, 12v-21a, and 3l3v-28a.

any insight would be greatly appreciated. I'm a noob at this stuff, just don't want to screw everythign up.

The psu would have to power:

AMD 3500+64
1 gig corsair value ram
74 gig raptor 10,000rpm
1 Chaintech 6600 gt
1 stock cpu fan.
1 120 mm fan at back of case.

That will probably run your basic config. And no, it shouldn't harm any of your components if it's a little light. The problems you'd experience due to light psu are issues of stability.

 

[scruffles]

look at that BLAZING SPEED on the responce. It's much appreciated. Tahnks FASTEddie

 

[TheNiceGuy]

theres quite a few people running ocz powerstream psu's, go check at bleeding edge, or ive seen people at xtreme systems, and even here anandtech.

Thats becasue its a !SINGLE FVCKING RAIL
(and only the new 600Ws are dual channel).

Do your god-damn research before you shoot at someone else and clog up the thread.

 

[jelliott]

nevermind

 

[F4810]

I have spoken to ASUS and Antec support and they both say my PSU (Neopower 480) will be fine. They seem to think that if anything its a mobo issue and I may need to RMA. ASUS said to wait a bit for a new final bios as my problems only really occur when trying to O/C.

What they were saying is that what the manual states is the total amps needed to power a system of those specs and that it doesnt need to be on one rail, as no single item would draw over 15 amps on its own. As one rail powers part of the mobo and the other rail the other part and the hard drives etc there will be sufficent amps to power even the most powerfull SLI system. I am not sure how the maths work out but they seem to think that the rail that supplies the mobo has more than enough amps for what will be drawn from it and the same goes to the rail that supplies the rest of the mobo and add ons.

They sounded honest but it may be bull to get me off the phone. It did seem to make sense to me. We are assuming that the mobo on its own will need to draw more that 15amps from either of the rails.

 

[FastEddie]

Originally posted by: FastEddie

Originally posted by: jelliott
After questioning OCZ techs in depth,

The rails are seperate but he is assuming that 20A goes to the board and then 18 to the molex plugs. This isn't the case and that's why he is off. On our PSU's...not sure about antec and the rest but 20A goes to the ATX connector and then 18A goes to the 12V aux connector and molex plugs. The power is very well distributed.[/i]

Here's where the OXZ Tech is off base. The 12v AUX Connector supplies the processor and memory traces from the dimm sockets to the processor. It's not used for anythingelse on the board. That connector doesn't supply the PCI-E slots, not the pci slots, or any of the onboard perifs! The amperage at the ATX power connector does that. So, if the ATX connector is maxed at, say 20 amps on the 12v rail, but needs essential 22.5amps from that source---where is it going to get it from? It can't take it from the 12v AUX connector!

F4810 This still applies. The dual rail psu's don't have variable amp 12v rails, where if one real needs more amps, it can draw it from the other. These dual rails are fixed which is why they list max amps on each of the two rails. The AUX 12 connector (CPU) can't majically send the needed amps on through trace paths that don't exist.