Abit IP35-E Review (500MHz FSB board)...$90 @ NewEgg + $6.61 ship

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cleverest

Member
Sep 13, 2007
83
0
0
Having one persistent problem now....windows won't shut down or restart with my holding the power button and power cycling....everything appears to be steady (granted I haven't played any games or really stressed the system yet), but when I go to START / RESTART or SHUTDOWN, or when a application has be restart, it hangs at "Windows is Shutting down".....from what I can tell I'm not getting disc activity either... (I have no HD LED Activity lights on my new case...) and I can't hear anything accessing....

Possible solutions? I'm scared to change anything in the GURU section of the bios.....even though my cpu still says 8.18ghz at boot up (first screen)....ram says ddr2-2456 as well, but passes memtest twice (ran whole suite once, and test 7 twice)...

Thanks guys....

- Brett
 

ArchAngel777

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2000
5,223
61
91
Ok, decided to post a few pictures of my setup to see if someone can give me any last pointers.

My case

My Tunig Tower

I'll see if I can explain this post a little more thoroughly than my previous ones.

If I run my CPU @ stock speeds - Q6600 @ 2.4Ghz 1.3v (actual is 1.24) - I idle around 54c and load around 75c. This is with speed step and voltage step enabled.

If I run my CPU @ overclocked speeds - Q6600 @ 3.2Ghz 1.38v (actual is 1.34) - I idle around 58c and load around 78c.

The issue here doesn't seem to be related to any overclocking as this CPU runs very hot without doing anything to it. What is worse, though, is that PWM (NB) progressively gets hotter and hotter and it doesn't matter if I am at stock speed or overclocked it just runs damn hot. The longer I run Prime Maximum Heat, the hotter it continues to get. PWM hit 85c earlier today with an ambiant temp around 27c.

So, here are my plans, feel free to take a look at the pictures and tell me if anything is off. Keep in mind that the Tuniq Tower fan is moving air towards the rear exhaust fan and I also have an exhaust fan above it. To the right of my graphics card you will notice an intake fan that blows on the graphics card, slightly around the NB (Blue Heatsink) and then gets exhausted out the rear and top. My Hard Drive is on the lower chamber and any heat is exhasted through the PSU, which is also at the bottom.

Here is what I feel the issue could be

1) Defective Tuniq Tower. This is a real possibility because I have read a few people on the internet that had a bum Tuniq Tower. I might try and use the Intel Heatsink + Fan and see if temps are the same or lower.

2) Sensor is wrong - though I doubt this is the case... The temps raise and I can feel the heat coming out the exhaust fans.

3) Concave CPU and or Heatsink - I am not thrilled with the idea of lapping my CPU. I know it is safe, but it voids the warranty. I eye balled both the bottom of my Tuniq AND my IHS and didn't notice any issues with it. But, I know that isn't a scientific method... I really should have gotten a razor blade to test it with. In any case, lapping my CPU is to be a last resort...

4) It is possible I just have a bad CPU. Maybe the IHS is not bonded to the four cores correctly or something. No way of really knowing for sure.

I guess I have no real way of proving #2 and #4, so I might try #1 and if that fails I might actually RMA this CPU. Though I am not sure NewEgg will appreciate me doing that because it is running hot. I have done everything in good faith to get these temps down and I am pretty much out of ideas.

Note: People keep telling me that I must have the Tuniq Tower mounted wrong - please, don't keep saying that. I have remounted it twice and I am very confident in my ability to apply thermal grease (AS5) and mount a HeatSink. Tuniq Tower is the one of the easiest heatsinks to mount, at least with LGA775. Turn each one full turn them move to then next, and next, and the next, etc... until all of them are tight and bingo, that is all there is. Nothing difficult about that. I can pickup the motherboard with the Tuniq Tower and it does not move. So, again, the Tuniq Tower is mounted properly.

Note: I am also not the only one with abnormally high temps for a Q6600. Been doing a lot of searching, hours actually, and find that there are several reports that others have been running into this. They also had reseated and reseated and reseated their CPU coolers over and over to no avail. Some users reporting 85c under load! I am pretty certain mine would climb up to those temps if I really let it go for 6 hours or so...
 

boglwe

Senior member
Aug 16, 2007
464
0
0
hmmm, I really wish i could help you cuase you have helped me a lot. I have a scythe ninja and my temps are at 50c and 78c load at 3.3. Now, i backed it up to 3.0 and I am at 44c and 68c. I can deal with that. That 75 load at stock speed is what worries me. I mean, what temps are these chips rated at. I think its 70c (I still think thats hot). I have decided in Jan that I will be going to Water cooling either this chip or a new one. IF you rma that chip I would like to know the results of that.

Oh yea, your NB temps are a major issue as well. I am thinking the MB could have problems with voltages somewhere. 85c is absurd. Consider a MB problem as well. Well, I jus heard thunder, gotta shut down. Wish i could help you. you have helped me a TON on my decisions.
 
Oct 1, 2003
156
0
0
Before you mounted the tuniq did you try turning it upside down and set the cpu on top of it? That's probly the easiest way to see if it needs to be lapped. I've seen pictures where the cpu could actually be tilted quite a bit while on the heatsink and was not flat up against it at all. If there's already good case airflow and the heatsink is properly mounted then unless the software is telling you an incorrect temp, there must be a bad connection between the cpu and heatsink to hit 75c when not overclocked. A Thermalright U120 E would be best for the quad but even the Tuniq performs better then 75c at 2.4ghz.

Oh ya was just thinking and although I'm sure it's definatly not it, the fan in the Tuniq is definatly blowing air to the back of the case and not the other way around right? Cause since you say the temps keep rising I was thinking maybe the fan is somehow backwards blowing the air into the case and fighting the outtake fan you have at the back. Just a thought cause I really have no other ideas. Even if there was bad airflow and your room was hot I would think 75c would be the stock heatsink temps, not something you would see with the Tuniq. It's a B3 not G0 right? I don't have any first hand experience with the quads but I suppose if your room is hot, a B3 could hit 75c even with the Tuniq. A Q6600 B3 runs HOT and add the heat from the PWM right next to it and it could definatly be possible to hit 75c. Do what I said to check if your Tuniq is flat and even try the stock heatsink to see if that performs better.
 

Mucker

Platinum Member
Apr 28, 2001
2,833
0
0
Originally posted by: rbk123
Originally posted by: SerpentRoyal

That's a poorly programmed benchmark. Garbage in, garbage out. Run Super Pi 1M/32M for a real-world test of CPU crunching power.

You're missing my point - unless it's something like Super Pi or Orthos, the C1E/EIST setting feels you don't need all the horespower and so leaves it running at 2.4Ghz. I don't want that, I want it running at 3.2 all the time, not just when I'm running Super Pi.

Nobody needs to get their underwear all twisted about C1E and EIST. It ain't all that it's cracked up to be.

With C1E and EIST enabled, I only save 9 watts on my system. Roughly $2.15 per year in my area, based on 8 hours of computer use, 365 days per year. My usage is much less than that. Closer to $0.75 per year. Not only that but how often is the computer completely idle? The savings keep decreasing, I'd guess $0.50 per year....why bother.

Proof:

Enabled
Disabled
Q6600 loaded

When the Q6600 is lit up, it consumes 120-130 watts @ 3.4 GHz OC :Q Yowsa!
 

QuixoticOne

Golden Member
Nov 4, 2005
1,855
0
0
Congratulations on your new Q6600 box. I haven't read all the thread
but I thought I'd contribute my ideas (though they may be redundant
wrt. others' comments I haven't seen, or things you've discounted already).

1) There's a specific way to apply AS5 for specific use on the Kentsfield
quad-cores like the Q6600; the diagram / instructions for that process
has a unique link on AS's web site. It is not the same instruction as to
application for a dual core or other kind of CPU. The direction of the
bead of paste has to match the direction the cores are laid out under the
IHS side by side. Double check that you've used a process that's
going to give at least as good paste coverage results as that process.

2) After having used AS5 on the first of my Q6600 boxes
(with a lapped ThermalRight Ultra Extreme 120 HS, NOT-lapped CPU IHS),
I found AS5 to be a bit thick / viscous and I'm not particularly confident
that it'd spread as well as optimum even given their special technique
and using excess amounts of paste. For my next build I think I'll use
a very liberal amount of AS Ceramique instead since I think it'll spread
more widely over the quad core CPU cores and IHS and require less
"break in" time to achieve stable results.

3) I'm running Q6600G0 on a P5K-Deluxe around 35-38C IDLE at stock
volts/frequency, and around 42-48C load temperature also at stock
volts/frequency, and I believe my AS5 isn't applied well for the above
reasons as well as that I had difficulty mounting the HS which resulted in
some smearing as I twisted it around, and in fact the TRUEX120 is loose
so I know it should be tighter for best results.

4) Some temperature monitoring utilities have a known 15C read error on some
Core2 series CPUs; this is an error due to the fact they changed the reference
"Tjunction" temperature that the RELATIVE temperature sensor readings are
RELATIVE TO in some of the chips; some programs written to use 100C
and others use 85C and the "correct" value depends on your particular
chip model; I forget the details of which is which; check the Intel forum on
xtremesystems or google around for tjunction + conroe + 85c or something
like that and you'll find the details.

5) Update to the latest stable BIOS that has explicit CPU support
for your CPU stepping and model, and double check the BIOS's temperature
at BIOS IDLE matches closely your OS utility programs' temperature reading,
and also verify that the version of your temperature utility matches the
right Tjunction value for your stepping / CPU as above. It could be a BIOS
bug or utility bug is just reading all your temperatures as 15C too high maybe??
Clearly a Q6600 should run hot, but I would not expect 75C at either IDLE or at
load anywhere under 3GHz.
Debug the temperature stuff at stock multi/frequency/volts just to avoid
complicating your analysis.

6) Some BIOS versions of some motherboards (I've no idea about yours)
overvolt/overclock BY DEFAULT; this isn't at all what you want for initial
testing / debugging. Ensure it's either at STOCK volts/multi/frequency
(around 1.16V to 1.3V core full load; x9 CPU multi; 266 MHz master clock);
if the BIOS has a bug or overclock setting these could be much too high
and may be causing your problems.

7) When / if you remove the HS carefully look for the actual imprint
of the HS and IHS in the paste; see how far it spread, and how uniformly;
there shouldn't be any unusually thick (as if untouched) or unusually
thin islands due to very nonuniform contact. You can use a flat clear
glass from a small picture frame to print from your IHS or HS base
with a single drop of water in the middle. If the drop spreads out
to cover the whole IHS/HS on the glass then you know it's pretty flat.
Also do the light seeping through the razor edge gap thing behind
a bright light.

8) Check to make sure your CPU socket's loading plate (the hinged one)
isn't bent up or something that might make bad HS contact.

9) check to make sure your "motherboard" temperatures are
reasonable relative to your room temperature to help ensure
the BIOS / utility is reading reasonable temperatures, though
that COULD WELL be INDEPENDENTLY ok/bad to your CPU
reading.

10) Try manually forcing the CPU / clock / volt settings;
try 1.25Vcore, 266 MHz master clock, x9 multi, and see if
the temps cool down.
If you know your nominal VID/Vcore values from your CPU utility
then of course use that Vcore (slightly higher or slightly lower)
if available, otherwise, 1.15 to 1.25V should be "about right";
using 1.15V shouldn't hurt if it's too low for your particular CPU,
though it could be unstable if it needs a little more (but I doubt it).

11) If you want to really find out what's up, then after you check
the temperature reactions to the above trials, now UNDERCLOCK the
CPU by changing the CPU multiplier to x6 instead of x9
(also with manual low Vcore and 266 MHz) ; if THAT doesn't radically
drop your temperature readings, either your HS is just not working/mounted
right, or your temperature utility is really out to lunch, or your BIOS / MB
is really not setting the expected parameters for the CPU since there's
NO WAY it'd run hot at x6/266Mhz/1.15Vcore.

Good luck!


Originally posted by: ArchAngel777
Ok, decided to post a few pictures of my setup to see if someone can give me any last pointers.

My case

My Tunig Tower

I'll see if I can explain this post a little more thoroughly than my previous ones.

If I run my CPU @ stock speeds - Q6600 @ 2.4Ghz 1.3v (actual is 1.24) - I idle around 54c and load around 75c. This is with speed step and voltage step enabled.

If I run my CPU @ overclocked speeds - Q6600 @ 3.2Ghz 1.38v (actual is 1.34) - I idle around 58c and load around 78c.

The issue here doesn't seem to be related to any overclocking as this CPU runs very hot without doing anything to it. What is worse, though, is that PWM (NB) progressively gets hotter and hotter and it doesn't matter if I am at stock speed or overclocked it just runs damn hot. The longer I run Prime Maximum Heat, the hotter it continues to get. PWM hit 85c earlier today with an ambiant temp around 27c.

So, here are my plans, feel free to take a look at the pictures and tell me if anything is off. Keep in mind that the Tuniq Tower fan is moving air towards the rear exhaust fan and I also have an exhaust fan above it. To the right of my graphics card you will notice an intake fan that blows on the graphics card, slightly around the NB (Blue Heatsink) and then gets exhausted out the rear and top. My Hard Drive is on the lower chamber and any heat is exhasted through the PSU, which is also at the bottom.

Here is what I feel the issue could be

1) Defective Tuniq Tower. This is a real possibility because I have read a few people on the internet that had a bum Tuniq Tower. I might try and use the Intel Heatsink + Fan and see if temps are the same or lower.

2) Sensor is wrong - though I doubt this is the case... The temps raise and I can feel the heat coming out the exhaust fans.

3) Concave CPU and or Heatsink - I am not thrilled with the idea of lapping my CPU. I know it is safe, but it voids the warranty. I eye balled both the bottom of my Tuniq AND my IHS and didn't notice any issues with it. But, I know that isn't a scientific method... I really should have gotten a razor blade to test it with. In any case, lapping my CPU is to be a last resort...

4) It is possible I just have a bad CPU. Maybe the IHS is not bonded to the four cores correctly or something. No way of really knowing for sure.

I guess I have no real way of proving #2 and #4, so I might try #1 and if that fails I might actually RMA this CPU. Though I am not sure NewEgg will appreciate me doing that because it is running hot. I have done everything in good faith to get these temps down and I am pretty much out of ideas.

Note: People keep telling me that I must have the Tuniq Tower mounted wrong - please, don't keep saying that. I have remounted it twice and I am very confident in my ability to apply thermal grease (AS5) and mount a HeatSink. Tuniq Tower is the one of the easiest heatsinks to mount, at least with LGA775. Turn each one full turn them move to then next, and next, and the next, etc... until all of them are tight and bingo, that is all there is. Nothing difficult about that. I can pickup the motherboard with the Tuniq Tower and it does not move. So, again, the Tuniq Tower is mounted properly.

Note: I am also not the only one with abnormally high temps for a Q6600. Been doing a lot of searching, hours actually, and find that there are several reports that others have been running into this. They also had reseated and reseated and reseated their CPU coolers over and over to no avail. Some users reporting 85c under load! I am pretty certain mine would climb up to those temps if I really let it go for 6 hours or so...

 

rbk123

Senior member
Aug 22, 2006
745
348
136
Originally posted by: hokiealumnus
rbk123, go into the "Advanced BIOS Options" in your BIOS and enter the "CPU Features" sub-menu (from memory, if it's not those, it's very similar). You can disable C1E & EIST altogether there.

I know; I had it disabled while I was determining my max OC. I enabled it to save some energy/wear & tear on the chip but it doesn't perform as I would like with it enabled. Again, this isn't a slam on that feature, just a clarification of how it works, and for my needs I prefer not to use it.
 

21stHermit

Senior member
Dec 16, 2003
927
1
81
SerpentRoyal,

While I appreciate all your efforts, you have a lot of assumed knowledge and/or unexplained/vague steps in your posts. By example:

Originally posted by: SerpentRoyal

UPDATE 9-28-07

Installation and overclocking tips...

1. Assemble only CPU/CPU cooler, GPU, mouse, keyboard, RAMs, and boot HDD on non-conductive surface. Zero fill HDD if it contains old data. Use Master/Slave jumper if two devices are connected to IDE. For best compatibility, use JEDEC compliance 1.8V DDR2 667 or 800 RAMs from well-known vendors such as Crucial or Kingston.

2. Disconnect power from PSU and hit power switch on motherboard to discharge caps. Reset CMOS.

3. Boot into windows and manually adjust RAM voltage and timing per the mfr's specs. Change USB keyboard and mouse support from OS to BIOS. Change memory divider to 1:1 (FSB speed = RAM speed). Set optical drive (name of drive near the bottom of the list) as 1st boot, HDD as 2nd boot, and disable boot support for ALL OTHER DEVICES. Hit F10 to save BIOS.

4. Install OS. No need to hit F6 to load special drivers. Upon completion, load Intel chipset, sound, and LAN drivers from CD. Make an image file of this partition if you have DriveImage, Ghost, BING, or TI for safe-keeping.

5. Go into BIOS and change Vcore to 1.465 (dual core) or 1.400 (quad core).

6. Increase FSB by 5MHz. Hit F10 to save BIOS and boot into windows. Launch CPUz to verify the new FSB speed, and RAM speed. FSB speed should be the same as RAM speed. Also confirm RAM timing. Make sure that FSB speed is within the rated speed of your RAM. Run Memtest86 test #5 for 50 loops as required to check for RAM stability.

7. Boot back to BIOS and repeat step #6 until you can no longer boot into windows. You may need to bump VTT, NB, and SB up one notch if FSB is above 430MHz, or if you have inferior RAMs. Restart the PC about 5 times and you should be able to hit DELETE key on keyboard to access BIOS. Enter the previous bootable FSB setting. Save BIOS and boot into windows.

8. Run Memtest per step #6 to check RAM. If okay, then run Orthos Large mode for one hour. If you cannot pass Memtest or Orthos, then drop FSB by 3 MHz and retest. You may want to add more RAM voltage to overclock the memory. Quality 1.8V modules should be able to absorb 2.0-2.1V. Watch the peak CPU temperature as reported by Coretemp 0.95.4 or S&M V1.90. 60C max for 85C Tjunction chip, and 75C max for 100C Tjunction chip. You need to lower Vcore and FSB if your temp exceeds the maximum safe limit. Load voltage is 0.04-0.05V lower than BIOS for dual core, and 0.07-0.10V lower for quad core. I use Speedfan or Abit EQ to V1111 to check Vcore.

9. Once you've achieved stability with Orthos and Memtest, use the memory divider to overclock the memory. Do this only if you have high-performance RAMs.

Assemble only CPU/CPU cooler, GPU, mouse, keyboard, RAMs, and boot HDD on non-conductive surface.
This implies the MB is outside of the case, why in heavens name?

Zero fill HDD if it contains old data.
Not sure exactly how or what "zero fill" means or again why I would do this?

Disconnect power from PSU and hit power switch on motherboard to discharge caps. Reset CMOS.
Never seen a power switch on a MB, perhaps you mean short the two pins that go to the front panel power switch?

The only reason I'm mentioning this is your thread is aimed at rookies. Every step is new and mysterious to a rookie. So, vague/partially explained steps leave FUD in the rookies mind and they quickly give up and "walk away".

FWIW
Hermit
 

ArchAngel777

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2000
5,223
61
91
Congratulations on your new Q6600 box. I haven't read all the thread
but I thought I'd contribute my ideas (though they may be redundant
wrt. others' comments I haven't seen, or things you've discounted already).

1) There's a specific way to apply AS5 for specific use on the Kentsfield
quad-cores like the Q6600; the diagram / instructions for that process
has a unique link on AS's web site. It is not the same instruction as to
application for a dual core or other kind of CPU. The direction of the
bead of paste has to match the direction the cores are laid out under the
IHS side by side. Double check that you've used a process that's
going to give at least as good paste coverage results as that process.

Yes, I followed the instructions on AS website. They have a PDF instruction sheet specifically for Intel Quad Cores.

2) After having used AS5 on the first of my Q6600 boxes
(with a lapped ThermalRight Ultra Extreme 120 HS, NOT-lapped CPU IHS),
I found AS5 to be a bit thick / viscous and I'm not particularly confident
that it'd spread as well as optimum even given their special technique
and using excess amounts of paste. For my next build I think I'll use
a very liberal amount of AS Ceramique instead since I think it'll spread
more widely over the quad core CPU cores and IHS and require less
"break in" time to achieve stable results.

When I removed it the first time, it was a thin layer and it spread accross the CPU quite well, it looked like it was applied correctly.

3) I'm running Q6600G0 on a P5K-Deluxe around 35-38C IDLE at stock
volts/frequency, and around 42-48C load temperature also at stock
volts/frequency, and I believe my AS5 isn't applied well for the above
reasons as well as that I had difficulty mounting the HS which resulted in
some smearing as I twisted it around, and in fact the TRUEX120 is loose
so I know it should be tighter for best results.

My Tuniq isn't loose one bit... This last time I finally cranked it down as far as it could go. Temps didn't change.

4) Some temperature monitoring utilities have a known 15C read error on some
Core2 series CPUs; this is an error due to the fact they changed the reference
"Tjunction" temperature that the RELATIVE temperature sensor readings are
RELATIVE TO in some of the chips; some programs written to use 100C
and others use 85C and the "correct" value depends on your particular
chip model; I forget the details of which is which; check the Intel forum on
xtremesystems or google around for tjunction + conroe + 85c or something
like that and you'll find the details.

Yes, I did a lot of research on this... It seems that many motherboards were reporting Tcase, rather than Tjunction which happened to be 10-15c cooler. In other words, some people thought they were running cooler than they were. But in my case, the latest BIOS for my board is V13 and it is set to use TJunction for the readings, which should be correct.

Update to the latest stable BIOS that has explicit CPU support
for your CPU stepping and model, and double check the BIOS's temperature
at BIOS IDLE matches closely your OS utility programs' temperature reading,
and also verify that the version of your temperature utility matches the
right Tjunction value for your stepping / CPU as above. It could be a BIOS
bug or utility bug is just reading all your temperatures as 15C too high maybe??
Clearly a Q6600 should run hot, but I would not expect 75C at either IDLE or at
load anywhere under 3GHz.
Debug the temperature stuff at stock multi/frequency/volts just to avoid
complicating your analysis.

My CPU does have specific support. BIOS idles at around 62c for the CPU core (tjunctio-hottest core). I am curious if my readings are 15c too high, or that if perhaps many people who think they are running cooler are in fact not... I don't really have a good way to figure it, honestly. It certainly could be a BIOS bug... But, again, not sure how I would be able to determine that.

ome BIOS versions of some motherboards (I've no idea about yours)
overvolt/overclock BY DEFAULT; this isn't at all what you want for initial
testing / debugging. Ensure it's either at STOCK volts/multi/frequency
(around 1.16V to 1.3V core full load; x9 CPU multi; 266 MHz master clock);
if the BIOS has a bug or overclock setting these could be much too high
and may be causing your problems.

My Voltages are definitely within specification and set correctly. The VID for my chip is 1.3v which is the lowest the Abit BIO will allow you to go. Additionally, even though it is set at 1.3, the actual temp according to Abit,CPU-Z and many other programs is 1.24v which is under volted. When I enable speed step and voltage step, the voltage drops down to 1.15 or so and clocks the CPU at 1.6Ghz. Problem is, my temps don't get much better.

When / if you remove the HS carefully look for the actual imprint
of the HS and IHS in the paste; see how far it spread, and how uniformly;
there shouldn't be any unusually thick (as if untouched) or unusually
thin islands due to very nonuniform contact. You can use a flat clear
glass from a small picture frame to print from your IHS or HS base
with a single drop of water in the middle. If the drop spreads out
to cover the whole IHS/HS on the glass then you know it's pretty flat.
Also do the light seeping through the razor edge gap thing behind
a bright light.

I am going to do this later today probably if I have enough time. I did, however, set the CPU on top of the heat sink and it looked good at a quick glance.

8) Check to make sure your CPU socket's loading plate (the hinged one)
isn't bent up or something that might make bad HS contact.

Plate looks good, the CPU IHS is higher than the side metal case that forces the CPU to stay in place. So that is fine.

9) check to make sure your "motherboard" temperatures are
reasonable relative to your room temperature to help ensure
the BIOS / utility is reading reasonable temperatures, though
that COULD WELL be INDEPENDENTLY ok/bad to your CPU
reading.

Yeah, extremely difficult figure that out.

10) Try manually forcing the CPU / clock / volt settings;
try 1.25Vcore, 266 MHz master clock, x9 multi, and see if
the temps cool down.
If you know your nominal VID/Vcore values from your CPU utility
then of course use that Vcore (slightly higher or slightly lower)
if available, otherwise, 1.15 to 1.25V should be "about right";
using 1.15V shouldn't hurt if it's too low for your particular CPU,
though it could be unstable if it needs a little more (but I doubt it).

Yes, I have tried that. It drops idle temp by 1-2c to run @ 1.6Ghz @ 1.15v (speed step). Still idles at a high 49c, though...

11) If you want to really find out what's up, then after you check
the temperature reactions to the above trials, now UNDERCLOCK the
CPU by changing the CPU multiplier to x6 instead of x9
(also with manual low Vcore and 266 MHz) ; if THAT doesn't radically
drop your temperature readings, either your HS is just not working/mounted
right, or your temperature utility is really out to lunch, or your BIOS / MB
is really not setting the expected parameters for the CPU since there's
NO WAY it'd run hot at x6/266Mhz/1.15Vcore.

I agree! But as answered in the other sections, I have tried that. It still runs hot. Appreciate you taking the time to help QuixoticOne!

Before you mounted the tuniq did you try turning it upside down and set the cpu on top of it? That's probly the easiest way to see if it needs to be lapped.

Yes sir, I quickly eye balled it like you described above. I didn't spend a lot of time checking it out thoroughly though... I knew QC run hot, but I certainly didn't expect the temps I am seeing here.

Oh ya was just thinking and although I'm sure it's definatly not it, the fan in the Tuniq is definatly blowing air to the back of the case and not the other way around right?

Yes, the air is blowing towards exhaust. I double and triple checked that (along with all my other fans).

Do what I said to check if your Tuniq is flat and even try the stock heatsink to see if that performs better.

Yep, that is my plan... Going to thoroughly clean the CPU up and verify how flat it really is doing the razor blade and light pass through test, also will check the Tuniq Tower for the same thing. Then I have plans to clean it up and use the Stock Intel CPU+Fan. I am not sure when I will get around to doing as it takes a good 1-2 hours being that I need to undo some twisty ties, remove the motherboard complely, then remove the Tuniq Back Plate... Bleh... More work that I am really up for today. Wife has some family come over.

All in all, if I had to leave it at 3.2Ghz @ 80c full load (I will never see that, I only see about 70c CPU and 60c NB in looping 3dMark @ lowest resolution). So, I guess you could say I am not worried about it, but I would like to overclock this puppy farther than she is right now (3.2Ghz) and have lower temperature while I am at it. I do need a good heater this winter...
 

SerpentRoyal

Banned
May 20, 2007
3,517
0
0
Originally posted by: rbk123
Originally posted by: SerpentRoyal

That's a poorly programmed benchmark. Garbage in, garbage out. Run Super Pi 1M/32M for a real-world test of CPU crunching power.

You're missing my point - unless it's something like Super Pi or Orthos, the C1E/EIST setting feels you don't need all the horespower and so leaves it running at 2.4Ghz. I don't want that, I want it running at 3.2 all the time, not just when I'm running Super Pi.

Why would you want the CPU to run at full power when it is not crunching a massive amount of data? You don't see a race car at full power when idling or running in yellow laps, right?

Asking the chip to run at full power when not needed will only reduce the life expectancy of the CPU. Since the chip will degrade faster, it will require more Vcore SOONER to achieve stability.

 

SerpentRoyal

Banned
May 20, 2007
3,517
0
0
Originally posted by: WEW
Hey Serpent - I reinstalled the heatsink -- cleaned the thermal pasted good, put some more artic - spread a thin layer around - then went through the hassle to fit it again -- now noticed idle temp is like 35 C when booted for a while.

I ran Vista ultimate again (its a clean install on the HD) -- i dont know of any temp monitoring that would work -- do you know?

actually found speedfan from what I read -- when i was running an anti-virus temp goes from 40-45C

I'm guessing heatsink assembly was the problem.

OK...so user error. Thanks for feedback.

 

SerpentRoyal

Banned
May 20, 2007
3,517
0
0
Originally posted by: cleverest
Having one persistent problem now....windows won't shut down or restart with my holding the power button and power cycling....everything appears to be steady (granted I haven't played any games or really stressed the system yet), but when I go to START / RESTART or SHUTDOWN, or when a application has be restart, it hangs at "Windows is Shutting down".....from what I can tell I'm not getting disc activity either... (I have no HD LED Activity lights on my new case...) and I can't hear anything accessing....

Possible solutions? I'm scared to change anything in the GURU section of the bios.....even though my cpu still says 8.18ghz at boot up (first screen)....ram says ddr2-2456 as well, but passes memtest twice (ran whole suite once, and test 7 twice)...

Thanks guys....

- Brett

Temp is okay. Check the connectors at the MB's pin header. The power switch from the case should go to the two power pins on the MB (page 1-8 pins 6 and 8). Need to make sure all pins from the case are properly connected to the MB. Reversing the LED pins will result in NO LIGHT.

A software or hardware added to this system may prevent PC shutdown. Only you know what has been added to the PC. Try shutdown in safe mode.

 

Mucker

Platinum Member
Apr 28, 2001
2,833
0
0
Originally posted by: SerpentRoyal
Originally posted by: rbk123
Originally posted by: SerpentRoyal

That's a poorly programmed benchmark. Garbage in, garbage out. Run Super Pi 1M/32M for a real-world test of CPU crunching power.

You're missing my point - unless it's something like Super Pi or Orthos, the C1E/EIST setting feels you don't need all the horespower and so leaves it running at 2.4Ghz. I don't want that, I want it running at 3.2 all the time, not just when I'm running Super Pi.

Why would you want the CPU to run at full power when it is not crunching a massive amount of data? You don't see a race car at full power when idling or running in yellow laps, right?

Asking the chip to run at full power when not needed will only reduce the life expectancy of the CPU. Since the chip will degrade faster, it will require more Vcore SOONER to achieve stability.

I don't believe it is as dramatic as you make it out to be. We've all run OC cpu's for years with any degredation. The chip will most likely be outdated before any ill effects are noticed.

Besides, if you are an overclocker, you really don't build a machine to let it idle all day....

 

SerpentRoyal

Banned
May 20, 2007
3,517
0
0
Originally posted by: ArchAngel777
Ok, decided to post a few pictures of my setup to see if someone can give me any last pointers.

My case

My Tunig Tower

I'll see if I can explain this post a little more thoroughly than my previous ones.

If I run my CPU @ stock speeds - Q6600 @ 2.4Ghz 1.3v (actual is 1.24) - I idle around 54c and load around 75c. This is with speed step and voltage step enabled.

If I run my CPU @ overclocked speeds - Q6600 @ 3.2Ghz 1.38v (actual is 1.34) - I idle around 58c and load around 78c.

The issue here doesn't seem to be related to any overclocking as this CPU runs very hot without doing anything to it. What is worse, though, is that PWM (NB) progressively gets hotter and hotter and it doesn't matter if I am at stock speed or overclocked it just runs damn hot. The longer I run Prime Maximum Heat, the hotter it continues to get. PWM hit 85c earlier today with an ambiant temp around 27c.

So, here are my plans, feel free to take a look at the pictures and tell me if anything is off. Keep in mind that the Tuniq Tower fan is moving air towards the rear exhaust fan and I also have an exhaust fan above it. To the right of my graphics card you will notice an intake fan that blows on the graphics card, slightly around the NB (Blue Heatsink) and then gets exhausted out the rear and top. My Hard Drive is on the lower chamber and any heat is exhasted through the PSU, which is also at the bottom.

Here is what I feel the issue could be

1) Defective Tuniq Tower. This is a real possibility because I have read a few people on the internet that had a bum Tuniq Tower. I might try and use the Intel Heatsink + Fan and see if temps are the same or lower.

2) Sensor is wrong - though I doubt this is the case... The temps raise and I can feel the heat coming out the exhaust fans.

3) Concave CPU and or Heatsink - I am not thrilled with the idea of lapping my CPU. I know it is safe, but it voids the warranty. I eye balled both the bottom of my Tuniq AND my IHS and didn't notice any issues with it. But, I know that isn't a scientific method... I really should have gotten a razor blade to test it with. In any case, lapping my CPU is to be a last resort...

4) It is possible I just have a bad CPU. Maybe the IHS is not bonded to the four cores correctly or something. No way of really knowing for sure.

I guess I have no real way of proving #2 and #4, so I might try #1 and if that fails I might actually RMA this CPU. Though I am not sure NewEgg will appreciate me doing that because it is running hot. I have done everything in good faith to get these temps down and I am pretty much out of ideas.

Note: People keep telling me that I must have the Tuniq Tower mounted wrong - please, don't keep saying that. I have remounted it twice and I am very confident in my ability to apply thermal grease (AS5) and mount a HeatSink. Tuniq Tower is the one of the easiest heatsinks to mount, at least with LGA775. Turn each one full turn them move to then next, and next, and the next, etc... until all of them are tight and bingo, that is all there is. Nothing difficult about that. I can pickup the motherboard with the Tuniq Tower and it does not move. So, again, the Tuniq Tower is mounted properly.

Note: I am also not the only one with abnormally high temps for a Q6600. Been doing a lot of searching, hours actually, and find that there are several reports that others have been running into this. They also had reseated and reseated and reseated their CPU coolers over and over to no avail. Some users reporting 85c under load! I am pretty certain mine would climb up to those temps if I really let it go for 6 hours or so...

Need to confirm the flatness of the heat spreader and the CPU cooler with a straight edge. You cannot fix a bad solder or temperature sensor. Need to RMA the chip.

You have inadequate air flow at the MOSFET and NB region. Install the stock CPU cooler. Make sure ALL FOUR PINS are seated on MB. Run with the case open. Set CPU fan suppor in BIOS to 4-pin. The downdraft stock cooler should be able to use room temp air to cool the CPU, MOSFETs, and NB heatsink. This will tell you if the fancy CPU cooler is the problem.

Run CPU at default speed and voltage. Check load temp using Orthos or Prime (make sure all four cores are running at 100%). If you see a significant reduction in temperature, then you need to switch to another high performance downdraft CPU cooler like the Big Typhoon to cool other components on the MB. Change the stock fan to a medium speed 120 x 38 mm Panaflo.

All MOSFETs are soldered to a big heat sink on the MB. You need air flow into the MB to effectively dissipate heat. These big front-to-back cooler are not very effective with CPUs that put a lot of stress on the output devices. Even fancy heat pipe coolers require air flow for proper cooling.

Another solution is to reverse the air flow at the top and back 120mm case fan. Room air will blow into the case to cool the MOSFETs and NB. Also reverse the flow of the CPU cooler and the fan for the GPU. Air will be coming from the back of the care and out the front of the case.

The cheapest and most effective cooling solution is a high performance downdraft CPU cooler with a side air duct.

Another user was able to Prime at 3.7GHz (Q6600) with only 62C PWM using the same MB. This would be consistent with my current PWM load temp of 49-53C on E4300 @ 3.47GHz.

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...AR_FORUMVIEWTMP=Linear
 

WEW

Senior member
Jul 4, 2004
294
0
0
I've got some questions:

1. Does Abit IP35-E have HD Audio? My Antec P180 case has a HD Audio connector and AC97 - which one do I connect?

2. On my Antec P180 case, there are two front USB ports, but one of them is not working, I switched the connector to another one of the USB-1 and USB-2 but still same result, I switched the pin connector thinking maybe I have it wrong, but it woulnd't boot, I had it right the first time? Not sure if this is a problem with the USB port on my case or on the motherboard or am missing something else.

3. I think in my device manager i see one question mark that is the SC Controller or something like that. Not sure what that is it, I'll boot it up and post about it again.
 

SerpentRoyal

Banned
May 20, 2007
3,517
0
0
Originally posted by: WEW
I've got some questions:

1. Does Abit IP35-E have HD Audio? My Antec P180 case has a HD Audio connector and AC97 - which one do I connect?

2. On my Antec P180 case, there are two front USB ports, but one of them is not working, I switched the connector to another one of the USB-1 and USB-2 but still same result, I switched the pin connector thinking maybe I have it wrong, but it woulnd't boot, I had it right the first time? Not sure if this is a problem with the USB port on my case or on the motherboard or am missing something else.

3. I think in my device manager i see one question mark that is the SC Controller or something like that. Not sure what that is it, I'll boot it up and post about it again.

See page 1-15 for HD audio.

Each group of USB header can support up to two USB plugs. Connect the dead USB port to the working USB header on the MB. If no activity, then the cable/connector is defective.

Get a pic of that screen and post the OS used.

 

SerpentRoyal

Banned
May 20, 2007
3,517
0
0
Originally posted by: Mucker
Originally posted by: SerpentRoyal
Originally posted by: rbk123
Originally posted by: SerpentRoyal

That's a poorly programmed benchmark. Garbage in, garbage out. Run Super Pi 1M/32M for a real-world test of CPU crunching power.

You're missing my point - unless it's something like Super Pi or Orthos, the C1E/EIST setting feels you don't need all the horespower and so leaves it running at 2.4Ghz. I don't want that, I want it running at 3.2 all the time, not just when I'm running Super Pi.

Why would you want the CPU to run at full power when it is not crunching a massive amount of data? You don't see a race car at full power when idling or running in yellow laps, right?

Asking the chip to run at full power when not needed will only reduce the life expectancy of the CPU. Since the chip will degrade faster, it will require more Vcore SOONER to achieve stability.

I don't believe it is as dramatic as you make it out to be. We've all run OC cpu's for years with any degredation. The chip will most likely be outdated before any ill effects are noticed.

Besides, if you are an overclocker, you really don't build a machine to let it idle all day....

I simply state the facts. C1E and EIST save power and extend the life of the CPU with very little impact on system performance. The system can automatically ramp up in less than one millisecond. Run any real world application with these features ON and retest with them OFF. Use a stopwatch to check run time. See any difference?

A cooler CPU translates to a quieter PC. My overclocked rig will rarely hit 60% load during normal use.
 

Mucker

Platinum Member
Apr 28, 2001
2,833
0
0
Do some honest calculations and I'll know you'll find that C1E and EIST, while good in theory, are nearly a complete waste of time for desktop use. Great for a mobile battery operated machine, but a gimmick otherwise....
 

SerpentRoyal

Banned
May 20, 2007
3,517
0
0
Originally posted by: Mucker
Do some honest calculations and I'll know you'll find that C1E and EIST, while good in theory, are nearly a complete waste of time for desktop use. Great for a mobile battery operated machine, but a gimmick otherwise....

I transcode DVD. That's my most CPU intensive application. Couldn't see any statistical improvement with those option OFF. The other real world application is the calculation of the number Pi (Super Pi). I see less than 0.1 second differential at 1M and 3 seconds at 32M.

What would you recommend as a good real world test that would reveal the deficiency of C1E and EIST?

 

IEC

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Jun 10, 2004
14,362
5,033
136
C1E and EIST are worthless for me, as I run F@H's SMP client 24/7 and it eats up all my spare CPU cycles. I never keep a processor more than 2.5 years so I've noticed no ill effects from overclocking and running full tilt.
 

WEW

Senior member
Jul 4, 2004
294
0
0
Thanks Serpent - I retried it again with both the USB connector and hte HD audio it works - i think I got the HD conenctor wrong the firs time, but for some reason -- fortunately the front USB ports strted working again, both of them.

In regards to device manager the ? is on the SM Bus Controller.
 

rbk123

Senior member
Aug 22, 2006
745
348
136
Originally posted by: SerpentRoyal
Why would you want the CPU to run at full power when it is not crunching a massive amount of data? You don't see a race car at full power when idling or running in yellow laps, right?

Asking the chip to run at full power when not needed will only reduce the life expectancy of the CPU. Since the chip will degrade faster, it will require more Vcore SOONER to achieve stability.

Um, why would I want the CPU to run slower when it can run faster, particularly at the stock/spec'd voltage? When I surf and do Quickbooks, it's much faster at 3.0Ghz running stock volts, then at 2.4Ghz running undervolted. Yet EIST thinks that I don't need the extra juice. Why is this so hard to comprehend?

Now when I ramp up to Photoshop or something more power hungry than your typical daily apps, it ramps up just fine and I would agree with you. But everything else it runs noticeably slower.

Finally, since full volts isn't full power, your car analogy doesn't hold. But you know enough about electricity that I'm not telling you anything you don't already know; just disappointed you're trying to reach so hard to defend something that I'm not even attacking.

 

imported_BS

Senior member
Mar 8, 2005
375
1
81
Originally posted by: WEW
Thanks Serpent - I retried it again with both the USB connector and hte HD audio it works - i think I got the HD conenctor wrong the firs time, but for some reason -- fortunately the front USB ports strted working again, both of them.

In regards to device manager the ? is on the SM Bus Controller.

Update your chipset drivers at intels website. Inf utility update.
 

RocKKer

Member
Dec 10, 2000
47
0
66
I can't seem to get my E2180 beyond 255 X 10. My components:

Abit IP35 v13 bios
E2180 (255 x 10 = 2550 MHz) 1.520v
AC Freezer 7 pro (core 41c idle)
Crucial Ballistix (2 x 1 GB) 1:1.25 DDR2 638 MHz 5-5-5-18 2.20v
Seagate 7200.7 80 GB WinXP
PNY 7300 GT (stock)

All other voltages/settings are stock. I have tried upping the CPU voltage even higher, but can't still can't seem to post above the 255. I was thinking this CPU might go a bit higher? What to try next please.
 

Mucker

Platinum Member
Apr 28, 2001
2,833
0
0
Originally posted by: SerpentRoyal
Originally posted by: Mucker
Do some honest calculations and I'll know you'll find that C1E and EIST, while good in theory, are nearly a complete waste of time for desktop use. Great for a mobile battery operated machine, but a gimmick otherwise....

I transcode DVD. That's my most CPU intensive application. Couldn't see any statistical improvement with those option OFF. The other real world application is the calculation of the number Pi (Super Pi). I see less than 0.1 second differential at 1M and 3 seconds at 32M.

What would you recommend as a good real world test that would reveal the deficiency of C1E and EIST?

I never said it would improve performance, or for that matter, mention anything about performance.

I am simply saying that having it disabled or enabled simply doesn't matter at all. If you work out the math, figuring your total computer usage over a years time, determining the wattage difference at idle with and without C1E/EIST enabled, using the cost of your power ($/kW-H) over that year, and estimate the percentage of time that your machine is actually in an idle state for that year, I think you'd agree that C1E and EIST on a desktop platform is really a moot issue. The extra wear on the cpu is practically nil.

Mobile usage, where battery management comes into play, is a whole other story. Power conservation is much more relevant.

Not trying to create an arguement, just stating the facts about the irrelevance of C1E and EIST on the desktop.

A much better way to conserve energy is to shut off your computer when you are not using it.
 
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