ABORTION - Why we know what we're doing is wrong.

[flavio]

*takes a dump*

 

[Amused]

<< Amused one: Your point was that we should keep abortion legal, so that we help keep the crime rate down. >>



No, my point was to minimize unwanted children. It's not MY fault that unwanted children, on average, end up committing more crime.

In the end, it comes down to a person's right to control their own body, and anything that may be attached to it.

 

[Atlantean]

It isn't killing human beings though. In order to be human one must be capable of thought. A small mass of cells is not capable of thought, therefore is not a human, and if it is not a human then what is it? Just a small mass of worthless cells that have yet to develop any specialization. It is not killing a human, rather it is killing an unwanted growth.

 

[Turin39789]

Time to eat cheese!

 

[Fausto]

<< I'm fighting against the notion that we can only defeat those things by making abortion legal. That's my point. Killing human beings should never be the answer. >>



News flash: abortion is legal, genius.

And as far as I can tell, you don't have a point. Gonad made some really good points previously about what would happen if abortion were outlawed:



<< 1. Abortions performed on the black market, unsafely and by unqualified people.
2. More birth defects from people attempting to self-abort through alcohol, drugs, etc.
3. More unwanted children either being traded around foster homes or neglected by their natural parents.
>>



and all you could come up with was "Legalization of abortion is not the answer though. You can't remove something bad by declaring it's good. Abortion isn't good for anybody. " WTF is that supposed to mean? How does that pathetic excuse for three sentences in any way rebut the points made previously? Either support your end of the discussion (you did start this after all, troll-boy) or shut the hell up.

Fausto

 

[vi edit]

I didn't read any responses, but I am going to respond to the initial post about taking the "morning after pill"...

My response: The pile of phlem that I just coughed up from the bacterial infection that I have in my sinuses has more life to it than the nearly microscopic pile of goo that is evacuated from the use of the morning after pill.

 

[Turin39789]

And I dont beleive that the article that shows that abortions have reduced the number of children at risk of commiting crime and leading degenerate lives is an evolutionary argument.

Those fetuses are not aborted because they were genetically unfit to survive rather because society does not have the means to care for them. It is on overpopulated world, and with tax cutbacks we cannot afford to stop the child abuse and poverty that leads to degenerate value systems.

 

[ToBeMe]

Well...........read it.............I'm still Pro-Choice......................wonder what went wrong???????

 

[lebe0024]

You can leave the insults out Fasto. I obviously know that abortion is legal.

I'm fighting against the notion that we can only defeat those things by making abortion legal. That's my point. Killing human beings should never be the answer.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

If this is a religious question for you, think about this: Is it man's right to threaten others to adhere to God's will or face their wrath?

I'm not saying there is a definite yes or no answer to it, it's just something for you to think about.

 

[lebe0024]

I already said I didn't mean genetic mutation. All of you are bickering about my word choice when my points are clear.

You goo arguements are rather irrelavent, seeing how almost all abortions are commited after 10 weeks, because that's what doctors insist. It is much more than goo at 10 weeks.

 

[lebe0024]

OK, forget about it. You guys are totally disreguarding things I'm saying. I said in the first post that THIS WASN"T A RELIGIOUSLY DRIVEN THING. I've had more things attributed to me than I can count in this thread. So, read the artical, if you don't agree, you don't agree. I think it's TOTALLY OBVIOUS WHAT WE"RE DOING IS WRONG. A BABY IN THE WOMB IS NOT A WART ON THE SKIN. I am sick of making the same arguments over and over and not having them addressed.

 

[Fausto]

<< I'm fighting against the notion that we can only defeat those things by making abortion legal. That's my point. Killing human beings should never be the answer. >>



I repeat: type out a reasonable rebuttal to the points Gonad and others have made, or just drop it. Don't just cut and paste the above absurdity over and over in the hope that you'll wear us down and we'll agree with you. A good discussion is all fine and well, but mindless assertation that you are right and abortion is "just plain wrong" while ignoring all points leveled against your stance is just stupid.

Fausto

 

[Amused]

<< OK, forget about it. You guys are totally disreguarding things I'm saying. I said in the first post that THIS WASN"T A RELIGIOUSLY DRIVEN THING. I've had more things attributed to me than I can count in this thread. So, read the artical, if you don't agree, you don't agree. I think it's TOTALLY OBVIOUS WHAT WE"RE DOING IS WRONG. A BABY IN THE WOMB IS NOT A WART ON THE SKIN. I am sick of making the same arguments over and over and not having them addressed. >>



No, you're sick of having people refuse to change their minds and think like you. Sorry, but I will NEVER agree to any law that forces a person to do anything with their body against their will. It's that simple.

 

[Elledan]

lebe0024,

If you've read the news lately, you'll have noticed the couple of which the female is pregnant. She is carrying a Siamese twin.

However, these twins are sharing one heart. They can not survive outside the womb. This means that either one of them is surgically removed, and dies, allowing the other to live, or they both die.

What would be your choice? The death of one, or both children?

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

That article is religious crap dude. It pisses me off that 9/10 'Christians' out there rely on someone else's interpretation of the events in the Bible to dictate what they beleive. And why would you even use that article as justification for your argument if it's not religiously based?

 

[waggy]

For those against abortion what about in cases of rape? child molestation? girl of 10-18 who got knocked up?
in the rape would you make the women carry the baby of a guy that raped her?
would you make a child taht was molested carry that child? wich WILL destroy any future for her? might kill the baby anyway because she is to young?
i guess the same can be said for girls 10-18 (though heard of them young as 8 getting knocked up) would you really want to destroy there life and sanity?

i have worked for the last 8 years with DCFS (department of children and foster service) and i have seen girls young as 10 pregnant by there father/brother/uncle/etc and they now have to live with a child they didnt want or ask for. NONE of them wanted to even have sex.

i personaly think a women should have the right to choose. i have seen way to many kids in foster care that there parents dont want. There arent enough places for kids to go. i feel sorry for them.

 

[xirtam]

- If I use a hammer to build a piece of furnature, it's morally and ethically 'just'.
- If I use the same hammer to smash someone's skull with, it's morally and ethically 'wrong'.

How about if I use a pair of scissors to stab a baby through the head and suck out its brains with a vacuum cleaner? OK in the case of rape? And by your "standards," how is anything morally and ethically "wrong"? No sanctity of life, right?

 

Women have control over what is in their bodies, PERIOD.

 

[Elledan]

<< i have worked for the last 8 years with DCFS (department of children and foster service) and i have seen girls young as 10 pregnant by there father/brother/uncle/etc and they now have to live with a child they didnt want or ask for. NONE of them wanted to even have sex. >>

Now THAT is what I call sick :|



<< i personaly think a women should have the right to choose. i have seen way to many kids in foster care that there parents dont want. There arent enough places for kids to go. i feel sorry for them. >>

You're a good person

 

[pyonir]

i think everyone should just die. KILL 'EM ALL!!!!!!!

 

[Elledan]

<< - If I use a hammer to build a piece of furnature, it's morally and ethically 'just'.
- If I use the same hammer to smash someone's skull with, it's morally and ethically 'wrong'.

How about if I use a pair of scissors to stab a baby through the head and suck out its brains with a vacuum cleaner? OK in the case of rape? >>

You've no idea how an abortion is done, have you?


<< And by your "standards," how is anything morally and ethically "wrong"? No sanctity of life, right? >>

Uh uh, just like all atheists are without morals and ethics.

'Sanctity of life' is something made up by theists. This does not mean that it's totally wrong, far from that. However, we should not limit ourselves in our decisions whether to apply the 'tool' of abortion or not. The decision should be made right there and not be predetermined.

There are of course some guidelines, which I listed earlier in this thread. These rely on logic and common sense only. Not on superstition, something pro-life people seemingly rely on, based on their 'arguments'.



<< I do hold humans at a higher dignity than the other animals. Humans have a higher dignity than ants. That doesn't mean I'm for the destruction of life >>

So... Humans are some kind of 'Uber'-animals? They're more complex, alright, but during development of the embryo, there's very little difference between the embryo of a Human, a newt and a monkey.

I see no reason to call us Humans superior to animals.

 

[pyonir]

<<
I see no reason to call us Humans superior to animals. >>


because we have opposable(sp?) thumbs.

 

[waggy]

I read once a saying

animals sleep when tired
animals wake when not
animals eat when hungry
animals have sex to reproduce

and humans go te bed when not tired
get up when they are tired
eat because food is there.
and have sex for enjoyment

Shrug looks to me the animals are not as dumb as people say heh

heh only good thing about humans is we are on the top of the food chain!

 

[Elledan]

<< only good thing about humans is we are on the top of the food chain! >>

I think that hungry lion over there thinks otherwise