About 200,000 Ohio voters have records discrepancies

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: alchemize
Forget the "calling it for Gore" early by CNN which ended up with many republican voters not voting.

You could go tit-for-tat all day on Florida.

i was absolutely baffled that all the later outrage focused on the WSJ calling the election for bush at 4 am when polls across the country were closed, rather than the earlier call for gore as soon as polls were supposed to close in FL. i remember peter jennings saying it would be practically impossible for bush to win when the networks called it at 7pm. it was still daylight out west! fricking irresponsible and who knows what it did to the election. new mexico was decided by less than 400 votes. that's narrower than FL was! wisconsin by less than 5000. oregon by less than 7000. while i can't say that people necessarily stayed home, i can't say that i'm certain the results would have been the same.




more californians voted for bush in 2000 than texans
:boggle;

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Well, now Non Prof John will get his doggie bone, at the cost of slowing the voting process, each of those 200,000 names with discrepancies will be integrated at the polls, some may have to cast provisional ballots, but the integrity of the election is being protected in advance.

Now its time to ask non Prof John what more he wants?

From what I can see, people want a fraud free election and with ACORN that becomes less likely due to the existing fraud they are committing.

I am all for whatever measures are needed to make sure people who are eligible and want to vote can vote, but only vote once.

Don't be a stupid twat, tell it like it is, you don't mind any result as long as McCain wins, by fraud or otherwise doesn't matter one bit.

There are too many twats on the net, don't be one of them, at least acknowledge your own stance, "if the opposition wins, it's fraud, if it's my guy, i don't care if it's fraud".

pathetic? Indeed.

The only stupid twats are those that think I support McCain or will vote for him. Again, I support whatever measures are needed to make sure our voting system isn't gamed - BY ANYONE.

 

[newmachineoverlord]

"some type of discrepancy" means that some people filled out their name as "Bob" instead of "Robert", or used their middle name on the registration form, or any number of other differences that has absolutely nothing to do with fraud. No evidence of attempted fraud is even implied by the article in the OP.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/13/opinion/13tue1.html

http://www.slate.com/id/2166589/
"he DoJ devoted unprecedented resources to ferreting out polling-place fraud over five years and appears to have found not a single prosecutable case across the country"

http://www.salon.com/opinion/f...ghts/?source=whitelist
"One of the aims of the abortive purge of U.S. attorneys was to punish those who refused to toe the line on the new emphasis on alleged voter fraud. A few fired prosecutors would serve as examples to the rest b

Site Pass Presented by

But the assault on voter fraud was a solution looking for a problem. As part of the Help America Vote Act, Republicans insisted on creating the Election Assistance Commission, which commissioned studies of the asserted problem. When the studies failed to turn up evidence of fraud nationwide, appointed Republican officials on the EAC insisted that the language say only that "there is a great deal of debate on the pervasiveness of fraud in elections" -- the same approach to inconvenient evidence that's made the Bush global-warming policy the envy of the world. "

 

[piasabird]

I have a great Idea. Anyone with more than one address, you just disqualify all the people by that name and last 4 SSN.

Will the real Mr John Smith please stand up and present his Drivers License . . . . .

I think it is a mistake paying people to register voters. It is not like the people at the voting places do not have a list of all known addresses in their district. The post office can get that for any zip code for a fee.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: newmachineoverlord
-snip-
"The DoJ devoted unprecedented resources to ferreting out polling-place fraud over five years and appears to have found not a single prosecutable case across the country"

Really, is that a surprise?

How would they?

Ballots/voting is done on anonymous basis.

Let's say you examine the voter roles (the book/print out where they check your name off as you vote) and find someone who's marked as voting but claims not to have. So? WTH you gonna do? There's no prosecutable case there - who you gonna prosecute?

Jeebus. Hah, No prosecutable cases! More circular logic - no one has been prosecuted - so we know no one does it!

I guess Nicole Simpson wasn't murdered, no one was prosecuted for it.

Fern

 

[DealMonkey]

Hey Fern - if our country seriously lacks basic vote/voter auditing capabilities, perhaps we need a team of international observers to come in and monitor our elections? Sounds like what we need . . . independent, non-partisan poll-watchers.

 

[DealMonkey]

Also, I note again that the OP's cited article had no mention of ACORN.

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: jonks

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: RichardE
Let us talk about Florida...

Let's talk about Florida.

Al Gore lost because Democrats couldn't fill out a ballot created by other Democrats properly.

All of the election stories in 2000 were focused on Democrat counties.

forgetting the purging of thousands of black voters because their names were "similar" to felons on no-vote lists are we? convenient...

Forget the "calling it for Gore" early by CNN which ended up with many republican voters not voting.

You could go tit-for-tat all day on Florida.

Ugh, didn't they call it for Gore after 10 pm and weren't the polls closed?

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: piasabird
I have a great Idea. Anyone with more than one address, you just disqualify all the people by that name and last 4 SSN.

Will the real Mr John Smith please stand up and present his Drivers License . . . . .

I think it is a mistake paying people to register voters. It is not like the people at the voting places do not have a list of all known addresses in their district. The post office can get that for any zip code for a fee.

i think paying people to register others is the main factor behind all these extras. though a lot of it could be that the typically disenfranchised might believe they need to do it as many times as possible in order to make sure they are registered.

Originally posted by: techs

Ugh, didn't they call it for Gore after 10 pm and weren't the polls closed?

no. polls were still open for most of the country when CNN called FL for gore. iirc, there were polling places in FL still open (after the official closing time) when CNN et al. called it for gore.

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
i think paying people to register others is the main factor behind all these extras. though a lot of it could be that the typically disenfranchised might believe they need to do it as many times as possible in order to make sure they are registered.

I agree.

I've also heard that these people that are hired for the registrations are basically "unemployable", i.e. about as skilled as the homeless people who are paid to stand outside businesses and hold signs.

When these are the only people you can find, there isn't any real incentive for them not to cheat, they've been cheating someone in one way or another for their whole lives.

 

[Vic]

ACORN is this year's Diebold.

 

[NeoV]

folks, get over the Acorn garbage already - who do you think reported the Acorn problems - that's right, it was Acorn itself - this is a non-story.

As for this Ohio mess, I'm not sure it's surprising that a large percentage of low income people have a different address on file than the one they are currently living at. You still can't vote more than once.

 

[shira]

Originally posted by: Butterbean
Yes this is our first fill blown third world election. Obama's Acorn needs to be broken up using RICO.

Here's a hypothetical for you: If it turns out that actions by the right to counteract "voter fraud" end up suppressing minority voting by a substantial multiple of any actual reduction in voter fraud, do you think that would be a net benefit or loss for elections in America?

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Hey Fern - if our country seriously lacks basic vote/voter auditing capabilities, perhaps we need a team of international observers to come in and monitor our elections? Sounds like what we need . . . independent, non-partisan poll-watchers.

I think we need more than that.

I haven't been impressed with the whole UN/Jimmy Carter thing so far.

I think we need a team of accountants/auditors to devise some good systems with checks and balances, and reviews. Then maybe follw up with some auditing to make sure everything is going as planned.

Voting is too important IMO for our current half-@ssed system.

Given how close elections have been (note past-tense ), I think a few percentages here or there could have a big impact. If they were landslides, I don't think I'd worry as much.

Fern

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: ayabe
Sure as soon as CAD or whoever explains how imaginary people are coming in droves to vote multiple with their imaginary registrations then perhaps I'll be a bit more onboard.
-snip-

Not to speak for CAD, but it's done with (mail-in) absentee ballots.

Once the ballot is removed from the envelope, it cannot be questioned. Ballots themselves have no signature etc.

Fern

Mail-in voter fraud is definitely more prevalent than in person voter fraud. Of course that's not hard to do considering in-person voter fraud is for all intents and purposes nonexistent. Mail voter fraud is still difficult to do because you need to have physical control over the mail to any particular address. Yes, it's possible to register to empty houses, drive by, pick up the ballots, mark them and send them, but it's still an awful lot of work for not a lot of votes. In order to make a significant impact you need a lot of people doing it, and as everyone knows as a secret involves more people... it doesn't stay a secret.

The vast, vast majority of fraud that takes place takes place by poll workers/people with access. They are the ones with access to large numbers of votes where a single actor CAN make a difference. This is the type of fraud we should be on the lookout for, not these ridiculous specters of a coordinated mail in fraud campaign, or legions of in person voter fraud cases.

See bolded.

Yeah, who'd ever think to get hold of a box of (unused) ballots?

Not to mention register fake names in different precincts and spend the day going around and voting numerous times, just at different locations.

Never mind, it doesn't matter. No one must raise questions.

Fern

Once again, your scenarios require a lot of work for not a lot of votes. This hypothetical fraudster needs to first case the district for abandoned addresses, then take the time to fraudulently register these addresses, and finally have access to a polling station and a 'box of unused ballots' that's just sitting around that he can take home, fill out, and mail in. Likely this would require the conspiracy of several people, a lot of time, and for what? A few dozen votes? Once again, not a good use of your fraud-making time. It's going to take such a huge number of people to steal an election that way that they are nearly certain to get caught long before they actually make a difference.

As I've told you quite a few times, the real danger is inside the polling station where that same fraud minded person could get hold of large numbers of real votes and mess with them in one way or another. That is what a smart voter fraud guy is doing, because then he can affect hundreds or thousands of votes. That's what we should be looking for, not this Rube Goldberg election thief.

But hey, that's not what's important is it? All you guys care about is finding some way, no matter how absurd, to justify voter suppression. People (rightfully) make fun of the left for complaining about how Diebold machines are being used to steal the election. You know what? Your paranoia is even stupider and less likely.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: NeoV
folks, get over the Acorn garbage already - who do you think reported the Acorn problems - that's right, it was Acorn itself - this is a non-story.

As for this Ohio mess, I'm not sure it's surprising that a large percentage of low income people have a different address on file than the one they are currently living at. You still can't vote more than once.

How so?

Have they changed the rules?

I'm guessing we 30 or more precincts where I live.

So far all they get is a name and address. If I get registered in each precinct using a different address I can vote all day long - once in each precinct.

Maybe it's different now, but h3ll they registered my wife when she got her drivers license here even though she told them"no" that she wasn't a US citizen. They registered her anyway.

I gotta see if ACORN is active down here. I'll get one of them to register me in the other 29 precincts.

Fern

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: NeoV
folks, get over the Acorn garbage already - who do you think reported the Acorn problems - that's right, it was Acorn itself - this is a non-story.

As for this Ohio mess, I'm not sure it's surprising that a large percentage of low income people have a different address on file than the one they are currently living at. You still can't vote more than once.

How so?

Have they changed the rules?

I'm guessing we 30 or more precincts where I live.

So far all they get is a name and address. If I get registered in each precinct using a different address I can vote all day long - once in each precinct.

Maybe it's different now, but h3ll they registered my wife when she got her drivers license here even though she told them"no" that she wasn't a US citizen. They registered her anyway.

I gotta see if ACORN is active down here. I'll get one of them to register me in the other 29 precincts.

Fern

If you do you have the worst local board of elections in the United States.

In NC if you were previously registered to vote in another county or State, you must fill out information on your previous registration to cancel the prior registration. If your street address is difficult to find you have to draw a map.

If you do not have a driver?s license or social security number, if the form is submitted by mail, and you have never registered to vote in the county in which you are registering, you must send with the application, either

a) a copy of current and valid photo identification; or
b) a copy of a current utility bill, bank statement, government check, paycheck, or other government document that shows your name and address.

You and your buddies are reaching way too far, Fern. It makes you look desperate.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: eskimospy
Once again, your scenarios require a lot of work for not a lot of votes. This hypothetical fraudster needs to first case the district for abandoned addresses, then take the time to fraudulently register these addresses, and finally have access to a polling station and a 'box of unused ballots' that's just sitting around that he can take home, fill out, and mail in. Likely this would require the conspiracy of several people, a lot of time, and for what? A few dozen votes? Once again, not a good use of your fraud-making time. It's going to take such a huge number of people to steal an election that way that they are nearly certain to get caught long before they actually make a difference.

That's an incredibly important point - voter fraud is a high risk/low return proposition.

 

[fskimospy]

Good article in Slate today on voter fraud, or to be more specific the lack thereof.

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