? about Jehovah's Witnesses

[Nemesis77]

OK, here's what I know about JW's:

1. they are not christians. Their belief differs from the "official" christian belief. For example, they do not believe that Jesus is a son of God. Prophet, yes. Son of God, no.

2. They do have some cultish characteristics. JW's who want to leave the organisation face serious pressure from withing the religion and his/hers family. I know cases where parents refuse to have anything to do with their child if he or she leaves JW's. And before they leave, they are pressured to stay in JW's. They threaten him that if he leaves, he will burn in hell. That can cause severe emotional trauma.

3. They are required to make door-to-door calls and distribute their material. If they find out that someone is not interested in their material, the make a note of it and will not bother that person again. If someone is interested, they note it too, and visit him more often.

4. They cannot take part in anything related to the government/nation etc. They believe that countries, governments and even other religions are from satan. They serve "Kingdom of God", not mortal governments. Of course, they obey the local laws and such, but they do not vote for example.

 

[DAM]

<< OK, here's what I know about JW's:

1. they are not christians. Their belief differs from the "official" christian belief. For example, they do not believe that Jesus is a son of God. Prophet, yes. Son of God, no. >>




LOL dude youre way wrong, they do believe he is the one and only son of god, they dont believe in trynity the idea that god, jesus, and the holy spirit are the same, get your facts straight.

<<



2. They do have some cultish characteristics. JW's who want to leave the organisation face serious pressure from withing the religion and his/hers family. I know cases where parents refuse to have anything to do with their child if he or she leaves JW's. And before they leave, they are pressured to stay in JW's. They threaten him that if he leaves, he will burn in hell. That can cause severe emotional trauma. >>



First off, to my knowledge JWs do not believe in Hell, atleast not that bad people go to hell, they believe that when you die, thats it you die, and when Armageddon comes only jesus or god can bring you back if you are deemed righteous enough (or something like that). They do face some pressure to stay, since they believe that the organization is the way to salvation, but then again you would try to persuade a friend to not drink and drive right???

<<



3. They are required to make door-to-door calls and distribute their material. If they find out that someone is not interested in their material, the make a note of it and will not bother that person again. If someone is interested, they note it too, and visit him more often. >>




True, good job!

<<

4. They cannot take part in anything related to the government/nation etc. They believe that countries, governments and even other religions are from satan. They serve "Kingdom of God", not mortal governments. Of course, they obey the local laws and such, but they do not vote for example. >>



Well, this is strange, they dont vote or anything like that, but they completely respect all laws and goverments, I THINK their believe is that god has placed such govermental institutions in order for there to be some civility in the world.



dam(my mother would be proud)

 

[Captain4]

<<

<< The authors of that site seem pretty bitter. JW's are part of a cult? Ouch. :Q >>



Yeah, but I've found that they do a pretty accurate job of describing the basic beliefs of the "mysterious" religions.

-Az >>



I agree. I read some about Mormonism on that site, too. Wow. Pretty scary. I can't believe the Olympics are actually being held there. Bunch of polygamist weirdos. Reading that article sure made me glad that Utah didn't get more congressional seats after the last census. I don't think I want them influencing law in my country, even though Orrin Hatch is a bad ass.

 

[Beau]

<< I believe the reason many Christians will not accept JW or LDS materials is based on the instruction found in the Second Epistle Of John, verses 7 - 11... "7. For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. 8. Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. 9. Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. 10. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: 11. For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds." >>



How does this apply to Mormons (LDS)?

 

[Nemesis77]

<< LOL dude youre way wrong, they do believe he is the one and only son of god, they dont believe in trynity the idea that god, jesus, and the holy spirit are the same, get your facts straight. >>



Well, I might be confusing the beliefs of the muslims in to this (they do not believe that Jesus is a son of God). Yep, I checked. JW's DO believe Jesus is the sin of God. D'oH!



<< First off, to my knowledge JWs do not believe in Hell, atleast not that bad people go to hell, they believe that when you die, thats it you die, and when Armageddon comes only jesus or god can bring you back if you are deemed righteous enough (or something like that). They do face some pressure to stay, since they believe that the organization is the way to salvation, but then again you would try to persuade a friend to not drink and drive right??? >>



I did not know about the hell part, but I do know that they are threated that they lose their eternal salvation (or something along those lines). That would be the same if "normal" christian was threatened by the fires of hell. I have heard of numerous cases of mental breakdown when someone tries to leave the JW.



<< Well, this is strange, they dont vote or anything like that, but they completely respect all laws and goverments, I THINK their believe is that god has placed such govermental institutions in order for there to be some civility in the world. >>



beliefs of JW regarding this is as follows:

1. Satan is invisible ruler of world

Through different religions, governments, organisations (UN etc)

2. Obey human laws that do not conflict with God's laws

Which means that they will obey the laws if they do not conflict with the "laws of god". Since law-system in the western world is (more or less) based on the bible and moral-standards it sets, this is not a problem.

Other things of interest is banning of products and acts that involve blood. Those include blood-based foods, transfusions, donating organs etc.

 

[Blain]

"In A.D. 1823, this same Moroni, then a resurrected personage, visited the Prophet Joseph Smith and subsequently delivered the engraved plates to him."

Many believe that this "Moroni" is exactly the type of thing that the Apostle Paul was speaking of in his second letter to the Corinthians, Chapter 11, verses 14 & 15...

"14. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works."

And again in his letter to the Galatians, Chapter 1, verses 6 - 11...

"6. I marvel that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ to a different gospel;
7. and there isn't another gospel. Only there are some who trouble you, and want to pervert the Gospel of Christ.
8. But even though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you any gospel other than that which we preached to you, let him be cursed.
9. As we have said before, so I now say again: if any man preaches to you any gospel other than that which you received, let him be cursed.
10. For am I now seeking the favor of men, or of God? Or am I striving to please men? For if I were still pleasing men, I wouldn't be a servant of Christ.
11. But I make known to you, brothers, concerning the Gospel which was preached by me, that it is not according to man.

 

[Saltin]

Every JW I've ever known has actively tried to get me and others around them into it.
What makes them think I want to discuss my spirituality with them?
I don't believe that a religion should advocate recruiting others. It stinks of "religious snobbery".
If someone is interested in a faith, let them come to that faith. Anything that needs to be "sold" to me is likely an inferior product.

Also, the whole issue of no celebrations (birthdays, etc) is a bloody joke. Celebrations are part of the human condition. Denying yourself the pleasure they can bring only adds stoic misery to your life, not peace.
When I was in grammar school there was a JW in our class, and he always left the room when the national anthem was played in the morning. I think thats bullsIt too.

Overal, I am not impressed with the organization. To suggest that there is a "limited amount of space in heaven" is buffonery. I don't think "space" is a concept that applies there.

 

[DAM]

<< Every JW I've ever known has actively tried to get me and others around them into it.
What makes them think I want to discuss my spirituality with them?
I don't believe that a religion should advocate recruiting others. It stinks of "religious snobbery".
If someone is interested in a faith, let them come to that faith. Anything that needs to be "sold" to me is likely an inferior product. >>



So I guess, you dont do much shopping? Cause every product I know of it advertised in some way or form. Also, its true there are some over zealous JWs that will try to stick their religion down your throught, if they are true/knowledable JW just tell them to stop it and never bring it up and they will.



<<
Also, the whole issue of no celebrations (birthdays, etc) is a bloody joke. Celebrations are part of the human condition. Denying yourself the pleasure they can bring only adds stoic misery to your life, not peace. >>



Bowling brings me pleasure, yet I dont do it cause it hurst my wrist since I have very weak wrists. The same applies to everything else, some people like to cut themselves, or pierces their genetal.



<<
When I was in grammar school there was a JW in our class, and he always left the room when the national anthem was played in the morning. I think thats bullsIt too. >>



So would you rather him just stand there and perhaps be taunted by all his peers for being different? Lets say he was not a JW but a Muslim kit or a Menonite, would that make things different? Arent you pleadging allegiance to the flag, which represents the Bill of Rights and the Constitution?



<<

Overal, I am not impressed with the organization. To suggest that there is a "limited amount of space in heaven" is buffonery. I don't think "space" is a concept that applies there. >>



That I know of, its not space dont be so nitpicky, to my knowledge its just a "limit" a "quota" if you will.




dam()

 

[Saltin]

<< So I guess, you dont do much shopping? Cause every product I know of it advertised in some way or form >>



Sure I shop. And I look into my options myself. I dont need the salesman to come to my door. Ill make up my mind and come to his. Thank you.



<< Bowling brings me pleasure, yet I dont do it cause it hurst my wrist since I have very weak wrists. The same applies to everything else, some people like to cut themselves, or pierces their genetal. >>



I don't see how this applies to denying yourself enjoyment. Does wishing a friend happy birthday hurt your wrist too?



<< So would you rather him just stand there and perhaps be taunted by all his peers for being different? Lets say he was not a JW but a Muslim kit or a Menonite, would that make things different? Arent you pleadging allegiance to the flag, which represents the Bill of Rights and the Constitution? >>



I'm actually Canadian, but the concept is the same everywhere. Religion and state should be, and generally are seperate entities. Niether deserves any part in the others sphere. When religion and the state are combined, you get Europe in the 16th century, and Fundamentalist governments like the Taliban.
You live in a country my friend, like it or not it provides, feeds, and defines you. You should show a little homage.



<< That I know of, its not space dont be so nitpicky, to my knowledge its just a "limit" a "quota" if you will. >>



What purpose does this quota serve? Do you actually think God favours some over others? I could understand a religion saying "some will get in, others will not, based on thier actions" if those actions were things like living a just and peaceful life. Let's face it, heaven is a carrot that religion's dangle in front of people's faces. If that carrot dangling results in them getting along with each other, then it has served its purpose. If it is dangled in order to get constiuents to "recruit" more constituents, then its a joke.

It appears that you are a JW. I don't mean to offend you. I'm just saying my piece, as you are.

 

[DAM]

<<
Sure I shop. And I look into my options myself. I dont need the salesman to come to my door. Ill make up my mind and come to his. Thank you. >>



But the bible does say that they have to do that, its part of their doctrine. Like it or not.




<< I don't see how this applies to denying yourself enjoyment. Does wishing a friend happy birthday hurt your wrist too? >>



I say happy bday to the people I know, it doesnt go against any of my beliefs, but maybe it hurt JWs' believes.



<<
I'm actually Canadian, but the concept is the same everywhere. Religion and state should be, and generally are seperate entities. Niether deserves any part in the others sphere. When religion and the state are combined, you get Europe in the 16th century, and Fundamentalist governments like the Taliban.
You live in a country my friend, like it or not it provides, feeds, and defines you. You should show a little homage. >>



This is a moot point, JWs are encouraged to be exemplary(sp?) citizens, but the one thing they dont do is salute (pay homage) to the flag. Techinicallities.



<<
What purpose does this quota serve? Do you actually think God favours some over others? I could understand a religion saying "some will get in, others will not, based on thier actions" if those actions were things like living a just and peaceful life. Let's face it, heaven is a carrot that religion's dangle in front of people's faces. If that carrot dangling results in them getting along with each other, then it has served its purpose. If it is dangled in order to get constiuents to "recruit" more constituents, then its a joke. >>



I am sure god favors some over others, dont you? Hell, if I was god, I would exterminate 90% of all humans in an instant, but alas I am not. But according to JW living a just and peaceful life is not enought, you have to do more, which is in the bible, Jesus didnt just sit on his ass all day long and picked his nose, he went out and did shstuff.



<< It appears that you are a JW. I don't mean to offend you. I'm just saying my piece, as you are. >>



LOL, I am by no means not even remotly close to a JW, I am pretty much the opposite, but I do have family members that are, and I was allowed while growing up to get to know different religions or beliefs.



dam()

 

[Saltin]

<< am sure god favors some over others, dont you? Hell, if I was god, I would exterminate 90% of all humans in an instant, but alas I am not >>



I'm done talking with you.

 

[Beau]

<< "In A.D. 1823, this same Moroni, then a resurrected personage, visited the Prophet Joseph Smith and subsequently delivered the engraved plates to him." Many believe that this "Moroni" is exactly the type of thing that the Apostle Paul was speaking of in his second letter to the Corinthians, Chapter 11, verses 14 & 15... "14. >>

I can see how someone who has not been educated in the beliefs of the LDS church could believe this.


<< I marvel that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ to a different gospel; 7. and there isn't another gospel. Only there are some who trouble you, and want to pervert the Gospel of Christ. 8. But even though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you any gospel other than that which we preached to you, let him be cursed. 9. As we have said before, so I now say again: if any man preaches to you any gospel other than that which you received, let him be cursed. 10. For am I now seeking the favor of men, or of God? Or am I striving to please men? For if I were still pleasing men, I wouldn't be a servant of Christ. 11. But I make known to you, brothers, concerning the Gospel which was preached by me, that it is not according to man. >>




have you actually ever read the book of mormon? It in now way "perverts" the gospel that is taught in the King James version of the Holy Bible. The versus further support the teachings of Christ.

 

[DAM]

<<

<< am sure god favors some over others, dont you? Hell, if I was god, I would exterminate 90% of all humans in an instant, but alas I am not >>



I'm done talking with you. >>





Did I say something wrong? :---)



dam()

 

[Nefrodite]

they are the weirdos that won't take blood transfusions even to save their lives. sick.

 

[Alienwho]

<< they are the weirdos that won't take blood transfusions even to save their lives. sick. >>


Actually in my health science class we had a discussion on this today. We watched a tape and these two JW, a mother and daughter got stabbed by some guy on the street. When they got to the hospital the mother was able to sign a document saying her and her daughter should not recieve blood transfusions, then when the father showed up he didn't believe all the JW stuff anyway so he said YES GIVE THEM THE BLOOD TRANSFUSIONS. The docter didn't know what to do, it's a lose lose situation, you can give them the blood transfusion, then get sued by the mother for not doing what her signed document said, or he could not save them, and get sued by the father for not saving their lives when he had the power to.

 

[Blain]

Beau6183,
No I haven't read the book of Mormon.

Is it taught at all that Jesus was/is...
* Michael?
* Gabriel?
* Adam?

Where can I find information about the publication "The Gospel Through the Ages"?

Are these accurate portrails of Mormon doctrines?

 

[jjones]

JW's are okay by me, as long as they knock on somebody else's door and not mine.

 

[TDSLB]

Thanks for all of the info. I had never really known much about the JW religion. Being a devout Christian I ussually try and understand what other people interprete the Bible but I never really understood the JW. Kindof interesting. Strange, unscriptual in my oppinion but anyways...

 

[Beau]

Blain,
First, I am no longer affiliated with any organized religion, as I believe they have fallen too much into the hands of the devil as an instrument of hatred and separtism. However, I was raised LDS.

No, that is not an accurate portrayal of Mormonism. We are not taught to not trust the Bible. The Bible is a what our whole faith is built around. The Book of Mormon may separate from other Christian faiths, but it is tightly entwined with the Bible. All through the BoM the phrases are directly tied to the Bible, further support the teachings of Christ. The only thing that is true from that cartoon is that we do believe that Jesus is th "brother" of Satan. But we also believe that you and I and Steve from the Dell comercials are brothers/sisters of Jesus. I'd recommend that before you follow any presumptions of a faith, other than your own, that is given by your faith, read up on the other faith. It does you no harm to read the BoM.

I'm not looking for an arguement here. That is why I left all religions. I have my beliefs and that's good enough for me.

 

[CTweak]

Trust me, JWs are a cult. If the word 'cult' offends you then lets just call them a 'High control group'.

You play by the rules or you are kicked out. Snap - one announcement from the 'Elders' in the church and at that instant no JW including family will say even ONE word to you again. Not until you grovel at the feet of the 'Elders' and get back in - which takes anywhere from 6 months to year and years depending on what you did, and more important WHO you pissed off.

Its a cult. Plain and simple. I won't get into the rules and regulations you have to live by, but you give up ALL your free time to the religion. You life is work, and JW related duties.

 

[DAM]

<< Trust me, JWs are a cult. If the word 'cult' offends you then lets just call them a 'High control group'.

You play by the rules or you are kicked out. Snap - one announcement from the 'Elders' in the church and at that instant no JW including family will say even ONE word to you again. Not until you grovel at the feet of the 'Elders' and get back in - which takes anywhere from 6 months to year and years depending on what you did, and more important WHO you pissed off.

Its a cult. Plain and simple. I won't get into the rules and regulations you have to live by, but you give up ALL your free time to the religion. You life is work, and JW related duties. >>




Wow youre so well informed, I see that the National Inquierer subscription really paid off.

you are completely wrong, its great to see how a few bad examples shape the way you think about the whole organization, I hope you do not apply the same principals to the human race, and if you do, I hope no one ever does something that they are not supposed to do to you.


dam()

 

[CTweak]

Oh, and on the blood thing, the amazing thing is that the average JW does not understand what he is and is not allowed to take as far as blood items go. The parent corporation has printed materials outlining what blood factions JWs can take, and the long and short of it is that they CAN take MOST bllod factions, but NOT whole blood! How F'ed up is that.

And the sick part is that they will take blood factions, things that might take dozens or hundreds of pints of blood to create, (since it must be filtered/distilled out of whole blood) but they won't DONATE blood at all because it's against their religion! They're leeches on societies back.

 

[CTweak]

DAM, I know that you are a JW, and you are lieing about this. You know full well that if a person is disfellowshipped or disassociates from the religion JWs will NOT speak to that person. Don't you DARE try and invalidate the thousands of truely f'ed up people out there that have been shafted by this religion - when their own parents, children, brothers and sisters disown them for leaving the religion.

The long and short of it is, if you are a JW, and you decide to leave, you will loose EVERY JW friend, family, and business contact. Your entire social world will colapse around you. Many people have been true hurt - try and imagine your entire social structure being ripped away from you. NOT pleasant.

 

[DAM]

<< Oh, and on the blood thing, the amazing thing is that the average JW does not understand what he is and is not allowed to take as far as blood items go. The parent corporation has printed materials outlining what blood factions JWs can take, and the long and short of it is that they CAN take MOST bllod factions, but NOT whole blood! How F'ed up is that.

And the sick part is that they will take blood factions, things that might take dozens or hundreds of pints of blood to create, (since it must be filtered/distilled out of whole blood) but they won't DONATE blood at all because it's against their religion! They're leeches on societies back. >>




LOL wow, youre just a fountain of truth, to my knowledge which is quite limited, this is not true, they can not take any blood, or blood derivative, if they follow the "guidelines" that come from the Watchtower they cant do that.

Oh, and I have heard of cases were JWs were given a blood transfussion without their consent and they live happily among the other JWs and stuff, its not the end of the world.



dam()

 

[DAM]

<< DAM, I know that you are a JW, and you are lieing about this. You know full well that if a person is disfellowshipped or disassociates from the religion JWs will NOT speak to that person. Don't you DARE try and invalidate the thousands of truely f'ed up people out there that have been shafted by this religion - when their own parents, children, brothers and sisters disown them for leaving the religion.

The long and short of it is, if you are a JW, and you decide to leave, you will loose EVERY JW friend, family, and business contact. Your entire social world will colapse around you. Many people have been true hurt - try and imagine your entire social structure being ripped away from you. NOT pleasant. >>






<< DAM, I know that you are a JW, and you are lieing about this. You know full well that if a person is disfellowshipped or disassociates from the religion JWs will NOT speak to that person. Don't you DARE try and invalidate the thousands of truely f'ed up people out there that have been shafted by this religion - when their own parents, children, brothers and sisters disown them for leaving the religion. >>




LOL lets get this fu*king straight I am not a JW, I never was, my mom is and thats it, my sister was disfallowedship, and she is still welcomed in the home of all JWs and my mom still talks to her and treats her like nothing, I am sorry if your experience was different and now you feel that you must attack something which you seem to know nothing about.



dam()