Originally posted by: SampSon
Whatever you say champ.The Kyoto Treaty was and still is a fvcking joke.
What I say? Please SampSon, the Senate rejected it 95-0 in 1997. So I'm not the only one thinks the treaty is trash.
Originally posted by: SampSon
Whatever you say champ.The Kyoto Treaty was and still is a fvcking joke.
Originally posted by: Robor
The difference is most sedans and sports cars still get better mileage than the average SUV and they aren't difficult to see around and don't blow into your door head high in an accident.Originally posted by: Doggiedog
Where are all the complaints about luxury sedans and sports cars?
They are wasteful too not to mention all too common.
I live in FL and I'm an SUV hater. Why? Because 75% (my guestimate) of the time you see an SUV on the road it's got a single occupant in it. Keep in mind I'm talking about Florida which is very flat and never gets snow so it's not like you need excessive ground clearance or 4WD for traction. And it's sure not for going offroad because there's no way they would take a H2 or Escalade into the woods. Most of the big flashy SUV's are for status and nothing more.
The argument that SUV's have more room is usually empty unless you're talking about the bus-sized SUV's. A large sedan or regular sized minivan will easily hold 5 adults and luggage comfortably and a standard SUV isn't going to do any better than that. One friend I know has a Toyota Sequia (sp?) and another has a Nissan Pathfinder. The SUV has *much* less room than the minivan and is difficult to get in and out of regardless of the seat you're riding in because the doors are so short. The van rides like a big car and has sliding doors on both sides making it easy to get in and out. The kicker? The SUV owner is a couple with 2 kids and despite the fact that a minivan would've made more sense she refused to look at any of them because they don't look "cool" like an SUV. To me that thinking is just stupid but all too common.
The Suburban has always been available with a diesel.Originally posted by: Fingers
I really liked them. Only SUV that I know of that was available in diesel and when you use that option they get comparable milage to explorer sized vehicals.
Originally posted by: Pacfanweb
The Suburban has always been available with a diesel.Originally posted by: Fingers
I really liked them. Only SUV that I know of that was available in diesel and when you use that option they get comparable milage to explorer sized vehicals.
Suburban features a choice of powerful Vortec V8 engines.
Originally posted by: SampSon
Fact: For the limited amount of times a family needs to tow something it is more economically sound to rent a vehicle capable of towing the load. The costs of renting a vehicle capable of towing their load is much less than the costs to own and run this vehicle full time.Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Thraxen
It's not that they don't serve a purpose, it's that the majority of the people that own these things don't need them. I think that is where the rub comes in. Beyond that there are these things called "vans" that have been around for years. Many people who buy vehicles like this and cart their kids and groceries around would be better served by a minivan or van, but they just aren't "cool" like SUVs.Why do people here like ot piss and moan about large SUVs and their owners? There are some people with large families who actually need a vehicle capable of hauling more than 4 people in comfort. Give it a rest already...morons.
Fact: A person who buys a large vehicle for a large family will only have it filled to capacity 50% of the time or, in most cases, a LOT less. That doesn't mean they do not need it.
Fact: You cannot tow a large boat or trailer with most if not all minivans. Many people who buy large SUVs buy them to tow. But most of the time, they are not towing (of course). That doesn't mean they do not neeed them.
Fact: A minivan cannot seat 6-7-8 people AND all their luggage camping/sports/whatever gear. It just isn't going to happen. The full size extended SUVs can do this with ease.
You don't actually expect him to understand that, and then accept that you are correct do you?that leads to overutilization of common resources... look up the problem of 'the commons'
Amused is a complete by product of a throw-away society who's only measure of success is a limited stat such as GDP.
Originally posted by: Pacfanweb
The Suburban has always been available with a diesel.Originally posted by: Fingers
I really liked them. Only SUV that I know of that was available in diesel and when you use that option they get comparable milage to explorer sized vehicals.
Sorry, there were like 150 posts and I didn't feel like doing all that reading. I just read the OP and a few more here and there and gave my opinion. Either way, my arguments are valid.Originally posted by: Doggiedog
Originally posted by: Robor
The difference is most sedans and sports cars still get better mileage than the average SUV and they aren't difficult to see around and don't blow into your door head high in an accident.Originally posted by: Doggiedog
Where are all the complaints about luxury sedans and sports cars?
They are wasteful too not to mention all too common.
I live in FL and I'm an SUV hater. Why? Because 75% (my guestimate) of the time you see an SUV on the road it's got a single occupant in it. Keep in mind I'm talking about Florida which is very flat and never gets snow so it's not like you need excessive ground clearance or 4WD for traction. And it's sure not for going offroad because there's no way they would take a H2 or Escalade into the woods. Most of the big flashy SUV's are for status and nothing more.
The argument that SUV's have more room is usually empty unless you're talking about the bus-sized SUV's. A large sedan or regular sized minivan will easily hold 5 adults and luggage comfortably and a standard SUV isn't going to do any better than that. One friend I know has a Toyota Sequia (sp?) and another has a Nissan Pathfinder. The SUV has *much* less room than the minivan and is difficult to get in and out of regardless of the seat you're riding in because the doors are so short. The van rides like a big car and has sliding doors on both sides making it easy to get in and out. The kicker? The SUV owner is a couple with 2 kids and despite the fact that a minivan would've made more sense she refused to look at any of them because they don't look "cool" like an SUV. To me that thinking is just stupid but all too common.
I take it you didn't bother to read all of the thread.
Read through it and get back. All of your arguments have already been discussed.
Originally posted by: Robor
Sorry, there were like 150 posts and I didn't feel like doing all that reading. I just read the OP and a few more here and there and gave my opinion. Either way, my arguments are valid.Originally posted by: Doggiedog
Originally posted by: Robor
The difference is most sedans and sports cars still get better mileage than the average SUV and they aren't difficult to see around and don't blow into your door head high in an accident.Originally posted by: Doggiedog
Where are all the complaints about luxury sedans and sports cars?
They are wasteful too not to mention all too common.
I live in FL and I'm an SUV hater. Why? Because 75% (my guestimate) of the time you see an SUV on the road it's got a single occupant in it. Keep in mind I'm talking about Florida which is very flat and never gets snow so it's not like you need excessive ground clearance or 4WD for traction. And it's sure not for going offroad because there's no way they would take a H2 or Escalade into the woods. Most of the big flashy SUV's are for status and nothing more.
The argument that SUV's have more room is usually empty unless you're talking about the bus-sized SUV's. A large sedan or regular sized minivan will easily hold 5 adults and luggage comfortably and a standard SUV isn't going to do any better than that. One friend I know has a Toyota Sequia (sp?) and another has a Nissan Pathfinder. The SUV has *much* less room than the minivan and is difficult to get in and out of regardless of the seat you're riding in because the doors are so short. The van rides like a big car and has sliding doors on both sides making it easy to get in and out. The kicker? The SUV owner is a couple with 2 kids and despite the fact that a minivan would've made more sense she refused to look at any of them because they don't look "cool" like an SUV. To me that thinking is just stupid but all too common.
I take it you didn't bother to read all of the thread.
Read through it and get back. All of your arguments have already been discussed.
Seriously. Growing up, my parents had a Suburban because they had 6 kids. We needed one. But then again, this was the 70s, when owning an SUV was VERY uncool (and of course no one called them "SUV's" then, that term hadn't been coined yet -- it was simply a truck). And I'd actually be embarassed of it if my mom drove me to school. But remember this was during the energy crisis.Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Why do people here like ot piss and moan about large SUVs and their owners? There are some people with large families who actually need a vehicle capable of hauling more than 4 people in comfort. Give it a rest already...morons. :roll:
Originally posted by: cavemanmoron
Originally posted by: Doggiedog
Rented a brand new one once.
Not very spacious inside despite the large size. Took $100 to fill up when gas was cheap.
The thing rode higher than Suburbans. It was weird to see people in other SUVs looking up at you or being able to see their roofs.
Woooah,are they really that much bigger than a Suburban?
I like the new International Navistar truck,but its too much money.
Now thats a BIG truck,too. LOLhttp://money.cnn.com/2004/09/13/pf/autos/monster_truck/
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Robor
Sorry, there were like 150 posts and I didn't feel like doing all that reading. I just read the OP and a few more here and there and gave my opinion. Either way, my arguments are valid.Originally posted by: Doggiedog
Originally posted by: Robor
The difference is most sedans and sports cars still get better mileage than the average SUV and they aren't difficult to see around and don't blow into your door head high in an accident.Originally posted by: Doggiedog
Where are all the complaints about luxury sedans and sports cars?
They are wasteful too not to mention all too common.
I live in FL and I'm an SUV hater. Why? Because 75% (my guestimate) of the time you see an SUV on the road it's got a single occupant in it. Keep in mind I'm talking about Florida which is very flat and never gets snow so it's not like you need excessive ground clearance or 4WD for traction. And it's sure not for going offroad because there's no way they would take a H2 or Escalade into the woods. Most of the big flashy SUV's are for status and nothing more.
The argument that SUV's have more room is usually empty unless you're talking about the bus-sized SUV's. A large sedan or regular sized minivan will easily hold 5 adults and luggage comfortably and a standard SUV isn't going to do any better than that. One friend I know has a Toyota Sequia (sp?) and another has a Nissan Pathfinder. The SUV has *much* less room than the minivan and is difficult to get in and out of regardless of the seat you're riding in because the doors are so short. The van rides like a big car and has sliding doors on both sides making it easy to get in and out. The kicker? The SUV owner is a couple with 2 kids and despite the fact that a minivan would've made more sense she refused to look at any of them because they don't look "cool" like an SUV. To me that thinking is just stupid but all too common.
I take it you didn't bother to read all of the thread.
Read through it and get back. All of your arguments have already been discussed.
No, they are not valid. Your "the majority of SUVs I see have single occupants therefore the owners must not need them" argument has been smashed. Your "SUVs have less room than a minivan" argument is absurd.
In short, had you read the thread, you may not have parroted the same old tired and debunked myths.
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Why do people here like ot piss and moan about large SUVs and their owners? There are some people with large families who actually need a vehicle capable of hauling more than 4 people in comfort. Give it a rest already...morons. :roll:
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Thraxen
Fact: A person who buys a large vehicle for a large family will only have it filled to capacity 50% of the time or, in most cases, a LOT less. That doesn't mean they do not need it.
Fact: You cannot tow a large boat or trailer with most if not all minivans. Many people who buy large SUVs buy them to tow. But most of the time, they are not towing (of course). That doesn't mean they do not d them.
Fact: A minivan cannot seat 6-7-8 people AND all their luggage camping/sports/whatever gear. It just isn't going to happen. The full size extended SUVs can do this with ease.
OK, and your point would be what exactly? All I said was most people do not need them.
My point is: YOU DON'T KNOW THAT.
You are making that assumption based on seeing people alone in their SUVs and not towing a trailer. You have NO IDEA what size family they have or if they own a large boat or trailer.
Originally posted by: thomsbrain
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Thraxen
Fact: A person who buys a large vehicle for a large family will only have it filled to capacity 50% of the time or, in most cases, a LOT less. That doesn't mean they do not need it.
Fact: You cannot tow a large boat or trailer with most if not all minivans. Many people who buy large SUVs buy them to tow. But most of the time, they are not towing (of course). That doesn't mean they do not d them.
Fact: A minivan cannot seat 6-7-8 people AND all their luggage camping/sports/whatever gear. It just isn't going to happen. The full size extended SUVs can do this with ease.
OK, and your point would be what exactly? All I said was most people do not need them.
My point is: YOU DON'T KNOW THAT.
You are making that assumption based on seeing people alone in their SUVs and not towing a trailer. You have NO IDEA what size family they have or if they own a large boat or trailer.
yes, we do know that, because if they all did need to tow trailers, we'd see 10 million more trailers on the road than we did 2 decades ago, when the exact same vehicles existed but magically, hardly anyone seemed to "need" them. there would be so many boats that every lake would be filled from shore to shore. there would be so many campers that every campground in the nation would have a waiting list until 2015.
and yet, despite driving ~600 miles a week past some great camping and boating areas, i'm surprised if i see one trailer a day (and yes i notice them because they block the road). i probably average one a week. i see far more cargo trailers being pulled by full-size vans or refuse trailers pulled by gardeners in pickup trucks. on my last trip up the mountains, 150 miles past many popular state parks, lakes, and resevoirs, i saw a grand total of zero recreational trailers being pulled. none. i did however, scream past countless lumbering SUV's crawling their way up the highway, spewing road sand and mud everywhere. my car: a 4-banger, FWD, with no chains, no traction control, and no ABS. see, when you don't weigh 6,000 pounds and you're not top-heavy, slippery conditions really aren't so scary afterall, and 400 lb/ft of torque doesn't do you much good if your vehicle is so useless that you can only go 25 MPH.
Debunked according to who? You? I didn't say all SUV owners don't need them. For those with a very large family or those who haul trailers an SUV is a good option - not the only option but a good option.Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Robor
Sorry, there were like 150 posts and I didn't feel like doing all that reading. I just read the OP and a few more here and there and gave my opinion. Either way, my arguments are valid.Originally posted by: Doggiedog
Originally posted by: Robor
The difference is most sedans and sports cars still get better mileage than the average SUV and they aren't difficult to see around and don't blow into your door head high in an accident.Originally posted by: Doggiedog
Where are all the complaints about luxury sedans and sports cars?
They are wasteful too not to mention all too common.
I live in FL and I'm an SUV hater. Why? Because 75% (my guestimate) of the time you see an SUV on the road it's got a single occupant in it. Keep in mind I'm talking about Florida which is very flat and never gets snow so it's not like you need excessive ground clearance or 4WD for traction. And it's sure not for going offroad because there's no way they would take a H2 or Escalade into the woods. Most of the big flashy SUV's are for status and nothing more.
The argument that SUV's have more room is usually empty unless you're talking about the bus-sized SUV's. A large sedan or regular sized minivan will easily hold 5 adults and luggage comfortably and a standard SUV isn't going to do any better than that. One friend I know has a Toyota Sequia (sp?) and another has a Nissan Pathfinder. The SUV has *much* less room than the minivan and is difficult to get in and out of regardless of the seat you're riding in because the doors are so short. The van rides like a big car and has sliding doors on both sides making it easy to get in and out. The kicker? The SUV owner is a couple with 2 kids and despite the fact that a minivan would've made more sense she refused to look at any of them because they don't look "cool" like an SUV. To me that thinking is just stupid but all too common.
I take it you didn't bother to read all of the thread.
Read through it and get back. All of your arguments have already been discussed.
No, they are not valid. Your "the majority of SUVs I see have single occupants therefore the owners must not need them" argument has been smashed. Your "SUVs have less room than a minivan" argument is absurd.
In short, had you read the thread, you may not have parroted the same old tired and debunked myths.
Go back and read my post. I'm talking about where I live - Florida - and all the SUV's I see around here. I didn't mention any AWD minivans because AWD isn't necessary where I live so to choose a SUV over a minivan just to get AWD doesn't make sense around here.Originally posted by: Doggiedog
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Robor
Sorry, there were like 150 posts and I didn't feel like doing all that reading. I just read the OP and a few more here and there and gave my opinion. Either way, my arguments are valid.Originally posted by: Doggiedog
Originally posted by: Robor
The difference is most sedans and sports cars still get better mileage than the average SUV and they aren't difficult to see around and don't blow into your door head high in an accident.Originally posted by: Doggiedog
Where are all the complaints about luxury sedans and sports cars?
They are wasteful too not to mention all too common.
I live in FL and I'm an SUV hater. Why? Because 75% (my guestimate) of the time you see an SUV on the road it's got a single occupant in it. Keep in mind I'm talking about Florida which is very flat and never gets snow so it's not like you need excessive ground clearance or 4WD for traction. And it's sure not for going offroad because there's no way they would take a H2 or Escalade into the woods. Most of the big flashy SUV's are for status and nothing more.
The argument that SUV's have more room is usually empty unless you're talking about the bus-sized SUV's. A large sedan or regular sized minivan will easily hold 5 adults and luggage comfortably and a standard SUV isn't going to do any better than that. One friend I know has a Toyota Sequia (sp?) and another has a Nissan Pathfinder. The SUV has *much* less room than the minivan and is difficult to get in and out of regardless of the seat you're riding in because the doors are so short. The van rides like a big car and has sliding doors on both sides making it easy to get in and out. The kicker? The SUV owner is a couple with 2 kids and despite the fact that a minivan would've made more sense she refused to look at any of them because they don't look "cool" like an SUV. To me that thinking is just stupid but all too common.
I take it you didn't bother to read all of the thread.
Read through it and get back. All of your arguments have already been discussed.
No, they are not valid. Your "the majority of SUVs I see have single occupants therefore the owners must not need them" argument has been smashed. Your "SUVs have less room than a minivan" argument is absurd.
In short, had you read the thread, you may not have parroted the same old tired and debunked myths.
Seriously.
You did not read any of the posts.
What Minivans have AWD? You pointed out 2 SUVs that are smaller than minivans. So what? I can point out 2 SUVs that are bigger than minivans.
I take it you don't have kids. If you did, you wouldn't be recommending a large sedan as an SUV replacement. I had a large sedan (Lexus GS300) and it was woefully incapable of handling 2 child seats unless you liked driving with your legs jammed up against the dash.
Because you are so biased, you can't think through different scenarios as to why people need SUVs. You live in FL. What about people who live up north where it snows? How is a minivan going to help them out in snowy weather? I'll answer your reply before you can ask it and repeat what was said before. There are only 2 or 3 minivans that have AWD. That is not much of a selection. If you don't happen to like any of them, you are stuck choosing an SUV. Station wagons are NOT substitutes for SUVs. They are just cars with bigger trunks. The Sequoia and Pathfinder are truck based SUVs which explain the lack of space inside. If you don't like it, get a Pilot or MDX, they have tons of room inside. I can go on and on.
In short, your arguments are not valid.
Originally posted by: Robor
Debunked according to who? You? I didn't say all SUV owners don't need them. For those with a very large family or those who haul trailers an SUV is a good option - not the only option but a good option.Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Robor
Sorry, there were like 150 posts and I didn't feel like doing all that reading. I just read the OP and a few more here and there and gave my opinion. Either way, my arguments are valid.Originally posted by: Doggiedog
Originally posted by: Robor
The difference is most sedans and sports cars still get better mileage than the average SUV and they aren't difficult to see around and don't blow into your door head high in an accident.Originally posted by: Doggiedog
Where are all the complaints about luxury sedans and sports cars?
They are wasteful too not to mention all too common.
I live in FL and I'm an SUV hater. Why? Because 75% (my guestimate) of the time you see an SUV on the road it's got a single occupant in it. Keep in mind I'm talking about Florida which is very flat and never gets snow so it's not like you need excessive ground clearance or 4WD for traction. And it's sure not for going offroad because there's no way they would take a H2 or Escalade into the woods. Most of the big flashy SUV's are for status and nothing more.
The argument that SUV's have more room is usually empty unless you're talking about the bus-sized SUV's. A large sedan or regular sized minivan will easily hold 5 adults and luggage comfortably and a standard SUV isn't going to do any better than that. One friend I know has a Toyota Sequia (sp?) and another has a Nissan Pathfinder. The SUV has *much* less room than the minivan and is difficult to get in and out of regardless of the seat you're riding in because the doors are so short. The van rides like a big car and has sliding doors on both sides making it easy to get in and out. The kicker? The SUV owner is a couple with 2 kids and despite the fact that a minivan would've made more sense she refused to look at any of them because they don't look "cool" like an SUV. To me that thinking is just stupid but all too common.
I take it you didn't bother to read all of the thread.
Read through it and get back. All of your arguments have already been discussed.
No, they are not valid. Your "the majority of SUVs I see have single occupants therefore the owners must not need them" argument has been smashed. Your "SUVs have less room than a minivan" argument is absurd.
In short, had you read the thread, you may not have parroted the same old tired and debunked myths.
As far as size - go back and read again. I compared regular sized SUV's to regular sized minivans. They each hold about the same amount of people/cargo and in the example I gave the minivan is much easier to get in and out of and a better choice for the family in that example.
Originally posted by: Robor
When I say regular sized I'm not talking about the huge SUV's so I guess I'm talking about car based. As far as usefulness I know my friends Grand Am held 3 or 4 guys and 3 sets of golf clubs while his wifes SUV couldn't.
Still, car based SUV's are still difficult to see around when you're behind them. That's my major gripe about SUV's. I like to be able to see what's ahead of me without having to follow 10 cars back. Follow a car and you can do that. Follow an SUV of any size and because of the height you can't. And yes I know this also applies to a minivan and truck.