About time Ford killed it

[mwtgg]

Originally posted by: SampSon

The Kyoto Treaty was and still is a fvcking joke.

Whatever you say champ.

What I say? Please SampSon, the Senate rejected it 95-0 in 1997. So I'm not the only one thinks the treaty is trash.

 

[zCypher]

I'm sick of nosy pricks.... mind your own business. Unless it's affecting you negatively, what do you care what other people "need"? People love to make assumptions about other people. I have a new car and I'm only 20. Do I need a new car? No. How's that any different than someone driving an SUV if they don't need it? Let them waste their money if it's a waste. Who cares if it is or isn't? Who cares if that person ever uses it for its intended purpose? WTF? It's their life and you don't even know them so who gives a fvck?

Anyway... i do what i want, and i respect other people. i think some people have a hard time understanding those concepts. you don't need to be an obnoxious jackass to do what you want, and you don't have to be an overconservative tightass to respect other people.

unfortunately this world is FULL of closed minded, ignorant and judgemental people, as this thread has clearly demonstrated. At least it was entertaining to read...

 

[Doggiedog]

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: Doggiedog
Where are all the complaints about luxury sedans and sports cars?

They are wasteful too not to mention all too common.

The difference is most sedans and sports cars still get better mileage than the average SUV and they aren't difficult to see around and don't blow into your door head high in an accident.

I live in FL and I'm an SUV hater. Why? Because 75% (my guestimate) of the time you see an SUV on the road it's got a single occupant in it. Keep in mind I'm talking about Florida which is very flat and never gets snow so it's not like you need excessive ground clearance or 4WD for traction. And it's sure not for going offroad because there's no way they would take a H2 or Escalade into the woods. Most of the big flashy SUV's are for status and nothing more.

The argument that SUV's have more room is usually empty unless you're talking about the bus-sized SUV's. A large sedan or regular sized minivan will easily hold 5 adults and luggage comfortably and a standard SUV isn't going to do any better than that. One friend I know has a Toyota Sequia (sp?) and another has a Nissan Pathfinder. The SUV has *much* less room than the minivan and is difficult to get in and out of regardless of the seat you're riding in because the doors are so short. The van rides like a big car and has sliding doors on both sides making it easy to get in and out. The kicker? The SUV owner is a couple with 2 kids and despite the fact that a minivan would've made more sense she refused to look at any of them because they don't look "cool" like an SUV. To me that thinking is just stupid but all too common.

I take it you didn't bother to read all of the thread.

Read through it and get back. All of your arguments have already been discussed.

 

[hysperion]

didn't read the entire thread but I'm proud to drive a lightning and get 10mpg in the city with my upgraded S-charger

 

[Pacfanweb]

Originally posted by: Fingers
I really liked them. Only SUV that I know of that was available in diesel and when you use that option they get comparable milage to explorer sized vehicals.

The Suburban has always been available with a diesel.

 

[Fingers]

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb

Originally posted by: Fingers
I really liked them. Only SUV that I know of that was available in diesel and when you use that option they get comparable milage to explorer sized vehicals.

The Suburban has always been available with a diesel.

Suburban features a choice of powerful Vortec V8 engines.

Didn't see anything indicating a diesel. Only vortec V8's that i'm aware of in that size category are all gasoline and they are a 5.3, 6.0, and an 8.1

Maybe someone else could find info on diesel availability.
Would make my opinion of suburbans higher.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: SampSon

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Thraxen

Why do people here like ot piss and moan about large SUVs and their owners? There are some people with large families who actually need a vehicle capable of hauling more than 4 people in comfort. Give it a rest already...morons.

It's not that they don't serve a purpose, it's that the majority of the people that own these things don't need them. I think that is where the rub comes in. Beyond that there are these things called "vans" that have been around for years. Many people who buy vehicles like this and cart their kids and groceries around would be better served by a minivan or van, but they just aren't "cool" like SUVs.

Fact: A person who buys a large vehicle for a large family will only have it filled to capacity 50% of the time or, in most cases, a LOT less. That doesn't mean they do not need it.

Fact: You cannot tow a large boat or trailer with most if not all minivans. Many people who buy large SUVs buy them to tow. But most of the time, they are not towing (of course). That doesn't mean they do not neeed them.

Fact: A minivan cannot seat 6-7-8 people AND all their luggage camping/sports/whatever gear. It just isn't going to happen. The full size extended SUVs can do this with ease.

Fact: For the limited amount of times a family needs to tow something it is more economically sound to rent a vehicle capable of towing the load. The costs of renting a vehicle capable of towing their load is much less than the costs to own and run this vehicle full time.

that leads to overutilization of common resources... look up the problem of 'the commons'

You don't actually expect him to understand that, and then accept that you are correct do you?

Amused is a complete by product of a throw-away society who's only measure of success is a limited stat such as GDP.

Your first response about renting a tow vehicle makes your second and third responses insulting my intelligence and economic knowledge OH so gawd damn funny and ironic.

If a family has a large boat, and tows it to the lake 12 weekends a year, the costs to rent a truck to do so would be FAR higher than the added costs of owning a large SUV over a minivan or large sedan.

A quick check shows the rental cost on a SMALL SUV in the LA area for three days is $200 less tax. That's $2400 in added costs per year. And this is only for a small SUV incapable of towing a large boat. The rental fees on a truck large enough to tow a large boat are significantly higher.

No way in hell are the costs of owning a SUV that much higher than a sedan or minivan.

Next time you want to insult someone about their economic sense, try not to make a fscking fool of yourself at the same time.

 

[Intelman34]

An Excursion with any gas engine is a dumb idea. Something that big and heavy needs to have a diesel

 

[Intelman34]

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb

Originally posted by: Fingers
I really liked them. Only SUV that I know of that was available in diesel and when you use that option they get comparable milage to explorer sized vehicals.

The Suburban has always been available with a diesel.

Ever since the Suburban was redesigned to the current body style, it has never had a diesel.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: Doggiedog

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: Doggiedog
Where are all the complaints about luxury sedans and sports cars?

They are wasteful too not to mention all too common.

The difference is most sedans and sports cars still get better mileage than the average SUV and they aren't difficult to see around and don't blow into your door head high in an accident.

I live in FL and I'm an SUV hater. Why? Because 75% (my guestimate) of the time you see an SUV on the road it's got a single occupant in it. Keep in mind I'm talking about Florida which is very flat and never gets snow so it's not like you need excessive ground clearance or 4WD for traction. And it's sure not for going offroad because there's no way they would take a H2 or Escalade into the woods. Most of the big flashy SUV's are for status and nothing more.

The argument that SUV's have more room is usually empty unless you're talking about the bus-sized SUV's. A large sedan or regular sized minivan will easily hold 5 adults and luggage comfortably and a standard SUV isn't going to do any better than that. One friend I know has a Toyota Sequia (sp?) and another has a Nissan Pathfinder. The SUV has *much* less room than the minivan and is difficult to get in and out of regardless of the seat you're riding in because the doors are so short. The van rides like a big car and has sliding doors on both sides making it easy to get in and out. The kicker? The SUV owner is a couple with 2 kids and despite the fact that a minivan would've made more sense she refused to look at any of them because they don't look "cool" like an SUV. To me that thinking is just stupid but all too common.

I take it you didn't bother to read all of the thread.

Read through it and get back. All of your arguments have already been discussed.

Sorry, there were like 150 posts and I didn't feel like doing all that reading. I just read the OP and a few more here and there and gave my opinion. Either way, my arguments are valid.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: Doggiedog

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: Doggiedog
Where are all the complaints about luxury sedans and sports cars?

They are wasteful too not to mention all too common.

The difference is most sedans and sports cars still get better mileage than the average SUV and they aren't difficult to see around and don't blow into your door head high in an accident.

I live in FL and I'm an SUV hater. Why? Because 75% (my guestimate) of the time you see an SUV on the road it's got a single occupant in it. Keep in mind I'm talking about Florida which is very flat and never gets snow so it's not like you need excessive ground clearance or 4WD for traction. And it's sure not for going offroad because there's no way they would take a H2 or Escalade into the woods. Most of the big flashy SUV's are for status and nothing more.

The argument that SUV's have more room is usually empty unless you're talking about the bus-sized SUV's. A large sedan or regular sized minivan will easily hold 5 adults and luggage comfortably and a standard SUV isn't going to do any better than that. One friend I know has a Toyota Sequia (sp?) and another has a Nissan Pathfinder. The SUV has *much* less room than the minivan and is difficult to get in and out of regardless of the seat you're riding in because the doors are so short. The van rides like a big car and has sliding doors on both sides making it easy to get in and out. The kicker? The SUV owner is a couple with 2 kids and despite the fact that a minivan would've made more sense she refused to look at any of them because they don't look "cool" like an SUV. To me that thinking is just stupid but all too common.

I take it you didn't bother to read all of the thread.

Read through it and get back. All of your arguments have already been discussed.

Sorry, there were like 150 posts and I didn't feel like doing all that reading. I just read the OP and a few more here and there and gave my opinion. Either way, my arguments are valid.

No, they are not valid. Your "the majority of SUVs I see have single occupants therefore the owners must not need them" argument has been smashed. Your "SUVs have less room than a minivan" argument is absurd.

In short, had you read the thread, you may not have parroted the same old tired and debunked myths.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Why do people here like ot piss and moan about large SUVs and their owners? There are some people with large families who actually need a vehicle capable of hauling more than 4 people in comfort. Give it a rest already...morons. :roll:

Seriously. Growing up, my parents had a Suburban because they had 6 kids. We needed one. But then again, this was the 70s, when owning an SUV was VERY uncool (and of course no one called them "SUV's" then, that term hadn't been coined yet -- it was simply a truck). And I'd actually be embarassed of it if my mom drove me to school. But remember this was during the energy crisis.

I think a lot of the negative bias towards SUVs comes from the fact that SUV drivers seem to be more rude than other drivers as a whole. Or at least it seems that way to me. Not all, mind you, just that SUV drivers seem to have a much higher asshole rate that other vehicles as a whole. I can't remember the last time I saw an SUV with its turn signal on. Or who would yield the left lane to faster traffic as the law requires. Or who wasn't talking on their cell phone while driving. They seem to have this my-SUV-will-crush-your-car-so-you-should-bow-to-me attitude, and that upsets some folks, including me.

My opinion? They big, slow, grossly overpriced, handle terribly, take forever to stop, offroad poorly, get poor gas mileage, and I don't have that much sh!t or kids to haul around and have a 4x4 truck to do all that for those times when when I need it. Daily I drive the WRX. In other words, IMO I could buy an SUV, but then again I'm not that stupid.

 

[OS]

Originally posted by: cavemanmoron

Originally posted by: Doggiedog
Rented a brand new one once.

Not very spacious inside despite the large size. Took $100 to fill up when gas was cheap.

The thing rode higher than Suburbans. It was weird to see people in other SUVs looking up at you or being able to see their roofs.

Woooah,are they really that much bigger than a Suburban?

I like the new International Navistar truck,but its too much money.

Now thats a BIG truck,too. LOLhttp://money.cnn.com/2004/09/13/pf/autos/monster_truck/

heh, I wonder how many american soldiers need to die to secure enough cheap oil to run it.

 

[Doggiedog]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: Doggiedog

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: Doggiedog
Where are all the complaints about luxury sedans and sports cars?

They are wasteful too not to mention all too common.

The difference is most sedans and sports cars still get better mileage than the average SUV and they aren't difficult to see around and don't blow into your door head high in an accident.

I live in FL and I'm an SUV hater. Why? Because 75% (my guestimate) of the time you see an SUV on the road it's got a single occupant in it. Keep in mind I'm talking about Florida which is very flat and never gets snow so it's not like you need excessive ground clearance or 4WD for traction. And it's sure not for going offroad because there's no way they would take a H2 or Escalade into the woods. Most of the big flashy SUV's are for status and nothing more.

The argument that SUV's have more room is usually empty unless you're talking about the bus-sized SUV's. A large sedan or regular sized minivan will easily hold 5 adults and luggage comfortably and a standard SUV isn't going to do any better than that. One friend I know has a Toyota Sequia (sp?) and another has a Nissan Pathfinder. The SUV has *much* less room than the minivan and is difficult to get in and out of regardless of the seat you're riding in because the doors are so short. The van rides like a big car and has sliding doors on both sides making it easy to get in and out. The kicker? The SUV owner is a couple with 2 kids and despite the fact that a minivan would've made more sense she refused to look at any of them because they don't look "cool" like an SUV. To me that thinking is just stupid but all too common.

I take it you didn't bother to read all of the thread.

Read through it and get back. All of your arguments have already been discussed.

Sorry, there were like 150 posts and I didn't feel like doing all that reading. I just read the OP and a few more here and there and gave my opinion. Either way, my arguments are valid.

No, they are not valid. Your "the majority of SUVs I see have single occupants therefore the owners must not need them" argument has been smashed. Your "SUVs have less room than a minivan" argument is absurd.

In short, had you read the thread, you may not have parroted the same old tired and debunked myths.

Seriously.

You did not read any of the posts.

What Minivans have AWD? You pointed out 2 SUVs that are smaller than minivans. So what? I can point out 2 SUVs that are bigger than minivans.

I take it you don't have kids. If you did, you wouldn't be recommending a large sedan as an SUV replacement. I had a large sedan (Lexus GS300) and it was woefully incapable of handling 2 child seats unless you liked driving with your legs jammed up against the dash.

Because you are so biased, you can't think through different scenarios as to why people need SUVs. You live in FL. What about people who live up north where it snows? How is a minivan going to help them out in snowy weather? I'll answer your reply before you can ask it and repeat what was said before. There are only 2 or 3 minivans that have AWD. That is not much of a selection. If you don't happen to like any of them, you are stuck choosing an SUV. Station wagons are NOT substitutes for SUVs. They are just cars with bigger trunks. The Sequoia and Pathfinder are truck based SUVs which explain the lack of space inside. If you don't like it, get a Pilot or MDX, they have tons of room inside. I can go on and on.

In short, your arguments are not valid.

 

[thomsbrain]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Why do people here like ot piss and moan about large SUVs and their owners? There are some people with large families who actually need a vehicle capable of hauling more than 4 people in comfort. Give it a rest already...morons. :roll:

yes, and the vehicles best suited to such a family are not SUV's. they are wagons, vans, and minivans. and yeah, you can get them with four wheel drive, in the unlikely event that you might actually benefit from it.

SUV's are sold in such huge numbers because people will sacrafice money, driving pleasure, driving comfort, ease of parking, safety (their own and those around them), and the enviroment, so that they can hop on the latest bandwagon and look just as "rugged" as all the other stepford wives.

i've driven SUV's, including explorers, 3 generations of Grand Cherokees, Expeditions, etc. they all drove like utter sh!t. as in: i would rather drive my grandpa's 1970's rebadged Izuzu pickup that can barely make it up the driveway than any of those penis-excusers, because the Izuzu actually handles better. i've been driven in everything from ancient jeeps to Cadillac Escalades with 20's, and they were all hazordous boats on stilts. i can't imagine a type of vehicle that would be less fun to drive. in fact, i'd venture that the big rental truck i drove recently was actually more fun than any of those SUV's.

all the excuses for why everyone needs an SUV are a load of crap because we had Suburbans back in the 80's, but they sold like 2 per year. everyone else bought a minivan because minivans were the flavor of the month back then. but at least minivans were suited to the people who purchased them. yeah, there's a couple dozen people in america who haven't heard of birth control and have a big-ass boat and 2 big-ass labs and THEY CAN'T LIVE WITHOUT ANY OF IT, but for Mrs. Soccer Mom (who, let's face it, makes up the VAST majority of modern-day purchasers or else sales in the 80's would have equaled today's), a wagon or minivan can carry all the kids and the shin guards and the water-cooler just fine.

which isn't to say your wives don't have the RIGHT to be dumbasses. but just because being a dumbass is really cool right now doesn't make them any less stupid.

*flamesuit on, set to maximum protection*

 

[thomsbrain]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Thraxen

Fact: A person who buys a large vehicle for a large family will only have it filled to capacity 50% of the time or, in most cases, a LOT less. That doesn't mean they do not need it.

Fact: You cannot tow a large boat or trailer with most if not all minivans. Many people who buy large SUVs buy them to tow. But most of the time, they are not towing (of course). That doesn't mean they do not d them.

Fact: A minivan cannot seat 6-7-8 people AND all their luggage camping/sports/whatever gear. It just isn't going to happen. The full size extended SUVs can do this with ease.

OK, and your point would be what exactly? All I said was most people do not need them.

My point is: YOU DON'T KNOW THAT.

You are making that assumption based on seeing people alone in their SUVs and not towing a trailer. You have NO IDEA what size family they have or if they own a large boat or trailer.

yes, we do know that, because if they all did need to tow trailers, we'd see 10 million more trailers on the road than we did 2 decades ago, when the exact same vehicles existed but magically, hardly anyone seemed to "need" them. there would be so many boats that every lake would be filled from shore to shore. there would be so many campers that every campground in the nation would have a waiting list until 2015.

and yet, despite driving ~600 miles a week past some great camping and boating areas, i'm surprised if i see one trailer a day (and yes i notice them because they block the road). i probably average one a week. i see far more cargo trailers being pulled by full-size vans or refuse trailers pulled by gardeners in pickup trucks. on my last trip up the mountains, 150 miles past many popular state parks, lakes, and resevoirs, i saw a grand total of zero recreational trailers being pulled. none. i did however, scream past countless lumbering SUV's crawling their way up the highway, spewing road sand and mud everywhere. my car: a 4-banger, FWD, with no chains, no traction control, and no ABS. see, when you don't weigh 6,000 pounds and you're not top-heavy, slippery conditions really aren't so scary afterall, and 400 lb/ft of torque doesn't do you much good if your vehicle is so useless that you can only go 25 MPH.

 

[imported_amx]

what about denalis? Who the fvck needs such big cars. Goto eurioe, asia no one has big cars like US. I really really dislike them.

If you lots of people to hault, get a big car like a minivan. IF you want to go offroading you dont need a 19 foot suv or a hummer. Im sure my range rover can off road better then those fat SUVS.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: thomsbrain

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Thraxen

Fact: A person who buys a large vehicle for a large family will only have it filled to capacity 50% of the time or, in most cases, a LOT less. That doesn't mean they do not need it.

Fact: You cannot tow a large boat or trailer with most if not all minivans. Many people who buy large SUVs buy them to tow. But most of the time, they are not towing (of course). That doesn't mean they do not d them.

Fact: A minivan cannot seat 6-7-8 people AND all their luggage camping/sports/whatever gear. It just isn't going to happen. The full size extended SUVs can do this with ease.

OK, and your point would be what exactly? All I said was most people do not need them.

My point is: YOU DON'T KNOW THAT.

You are making that assumption based on seeing people alone in their SUVs and not towing a trailer. You have NO IDEA what size family they have or if they own a large boat or trailer.

yes, we do know that, because if they all did need to tow trailers, we'd see 10 million more trailers on the road than we did 2 decades ago, when the exact same vehicles existed but magically, hardly anyone seemed to "need" them. there would be so many boats that every lake would be filled from shore to shore. there would be so many campers that every campground in the nation would have a waiting list until 2015.

and yet, despite driving ~600 miles a week past some great camping and boating areas, i'm surprised if i see one trailer a day (and yes i notice them because they block the road). i probably average one a week. i see far more cargo trailers being pulled by full-size vans or refuse trailers pulled by gardeners in pickup trucks. on my last trip up the mountains, 150 miles past many popular state parks, lakes, and resevoirs, i saw a grand total of zero recreational trailers being pulled. none. i did however, scream past countless lumbering SUV's crawling their way up the highway, spewing road sand and mud everywhere. my car: a 4-banger, FWD, with no chains, no traction control, and no ABS. see, when you don't weigh 6,000 pounds and you're not top-heavy, slippery conditions really aren't so scary afterall, and 400 lb/ft of torque doesn't do you much good if your vehicle is so useless that you can only go 25 MPH.

Gee, more assmuptions based on personal experience, not any real data. Why should I be surprised? Oh, wait... I'm not.

The fact is, the reacreational tower is going to RARELY have a trailer attached to his vehicle. The avid boater maybe 12 weekends a year. And then it's only to the lake and back. While he's at the lake, the trailer is parked.

The parent of a large family is going to have their vehicle filled to capacity less than 30% of the time. (This assumes return trips from drop offs, drives to and from work and daily errands while the kids are in school/sports/at friends).

Neither of these facts means they do not need the vehicle. It only means that people like you see SUVs usually not towing something and not filled to capacity and ASSUME that people do not need them.

Let me make an assumption based on observation only:

I see school busses empty more than half the time. And most of the time, I see them filled no where near capacity. Based on my personal observations, I say the city doesn't need such large vehicles.

The same goes for city busses.

There. See how that goes?

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: Doggiedog

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: Doggiedog
Where are all the complaints about luxury sedans and sports cars?

They are wasteful too not to mention all too common.

The difference is most sedans and sports cars still get better mileage than the average SUV and they aren't difficult to see around and don't blow into your door head high in an accident.

I live in FL and I'm an SUV hater. Why? Because 75% (my guestimate) of the time you see an SUV on the road it's got a single occupant in it. Keep in mind I'm talking about Florida which is very flat and never gets snow so it's not like you need excessive ground clearance or 4WD for traction. And it's sure not for going offroad because there's no way they would take a H2 or Escalade into the woods. Most of the big flashy SUV's are for status and nothing more.

The argument that SUV's have more room is usually empty unless you're talking about the bus-sized SUV's. A large sedan or regular sized minivan will easily hold 5 adults and luggage comfortably and a standard SUV isn't going to do any better than that. One friend I know has a Toyota Sequia (sp?) and another has a Nissan Pathfinder. The SUV has *much* less room than the minivan and is difficult to get in and out of regardless of the seat you're riding in because the doors are so short. The van rides like a big car and has sliding doors on both sides making it easy to get in and out. The kicker? The SUV owner is a couple with 2 kids and despite the fact that a minivan would've made more sense she refused to look at any of them because they don't look "cool" like an SUV. To me that thinking is just stupid but all too common.

I take it you didn't bother to read all of the thread.

Read through it and get back. All of your arguments have already been discussed.

Sorry, there were like 150 posts and I didn't feel like doing all that reading. I just read the OP and a few more here and there and gave my opinion. Either way, my arguments are valid.

No, they are not valid. Your "the majority of SUVs I see have single occupants therefore the owners must not need them" argument has been smashed. Your "SUVs have less room than a minivan" argument is absurd.

In short, had you read the thread, you may not have parroted the same old tired and debunked myths.

Debunked according to who? You? I didn't say all SUV owners don't need them. For those with a very large family or those who haul trailers an SUV is a good option - not the only option but a good option.

As far as size - go back and read again. I compared regular sized SUV's to regular sized minivans. They each hold about the same amount of people/cargo and in the example I gave the minivan is much easier to get in and out of and a better choice for the family in that example.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: Doggiedog

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: Doggiedog

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: Doggiedog
Where are all the complaints about luxury sedans and sports cars?

They are wasteful too not to mention all too common.

The difference is most sedans and sports cars still get better mileage than the average SUV and they aren't difficult to see around and don't blow into your door head high in an accident.

I live in FL and I'm an SUV hater. Why? Because 75% (my guestimate) of the time you see an SUV on the road it's got a single occupant in it. Keep in mind I'm talking about Florida which is very flat and never gets snow so it's not like you need excessive ground clearance or 4WD for traction. And it's sure not for going offroad because there's no way they would take a H2 or Escalade into the woods. Most of the big flashy SUV's are for status and nothing more.

The argument that SUV's have more room is usually empty unless you're talking about the bus-sized SUV's. A large sedan or regular sized minivan will easily hold 5 adults and luggage comfortably and a standard SUV isn't going to do any better than that. One friend I know has a Toyota Sequia (sp?) and another has a Nissan Pathfinder. The SUV has *much* less room than the minivan and is difficult to get in and out of regardless of the seat you're riding in because the doors are so short. The van rides like a big car and has sliding doors on both sides making it easy to get in and out. The kicker? The SUV owner is a couple with 2 kids and despite the fact that a minivan would've made more sense she refused to look at any of them because they don't look "cool" like an SUV. To me that thinking is just stupid but all too common.

I take it you didn't bother to read all of the thread.

Read through it and get back. All of your arguments have already been discussed.

Sorry, there were like 150 posts and I didn't feel like doing all that reading. I just read the OP and a few more here and there and gave my opinion. Either way, my arguments are valid.

No, they are not valid. Your "the majority of SUVs I see have single occupants therefore the owners must not need them" argument has been smashed. Your "SUVs have less room than a minivan" argument is absurd.

In short, had you read the thread, you may not have parroted the same old tired and debunked myths.

Seriously.

You did not read any of the posts.

What Minivans have AWD? You pointed out 2 SUVs that are smaller than minivans. So what? I can point out 2 SUVs that are bigger than minivans.

I take it you don't have kids. If you did, you wouldn't be recommending a large sedan as an SUV replacement. I had a large sedan (Lexus GS300) and it was woefully incapable of handling 2 child seats unless you liked driving with your legs jammed up against the dash.

Because you are so biased, you can't think through different scenarios as to why people need SUVs. You live in FL. What about people who live up north where it snows? How is a minivan going to help them out in snowy weather? I'll answer your reply before you can ask it and repeat what was said before. There are only 2 or 3 minivans that have AWD. That is not much of a selection. If you don't happen to like any of them, you are stuck choosing an SUV. Station wagons are NOT substitutes for SUVs. They are just cars with bigger trunks. The Sequoia and Pathfinder are truck based SUVs which explain the lack of space inside. If you don't like it, get a Pilot or MDX, they have tons of room inside. I can go on and on.

In short, your arguments are not valid.

Go back and read my post. I'm talking about where I live - Florida - and all the SUV's I see around here. I didn't mention any AWD minivans because AWD isn't necessary where I live so to choose a SUV over a minivan just to get AWD doesn't make sense around here.

I did not talk about people who live up north because I was talking about my area. I have family up north and they own an SUV but they also have 2 kids and a live-in parent. They get awful snow there so having a larger vehicle with AWD makes sense in their case.

As far as child seats fitting in cars - not sure why you're having a problem. My friend holds 2 child seats in his Grand Am back seat without a problem. There's no room for anyone else in the back but his wife's SUV is the same way.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: Doggiedog

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: Doggiedog
Where are all the complaints about luxury sedans and sports cars?

They are wasteful too not to mention all too common.

The difference is most sedans and sports cars still get better mileage than the average SUV and they aren't difficult to see around and don't blow into your door head high in an accident.

I live in FL and I'm an SUV hater. Why? Because 75% (my guestimate) of the time you see an SUV on the road it's got a single occupant in it. Keep in mind I'm talking about Florida which is very flat and never gets snow so it's not like you need excessive ground clearance or 4WD for traction. And it's sure not for going offroad because there's no way they would take a H2 or Escalade into the woods. Most of the big flashy SUV's are for status and nothing more.

The argument that SUV's have more room is usually empty unless you're talking about the bus-sized SUV's. A large sedan or regular sized minivan will easily hold 5 adults and luggage comfortably and a standard SUV isn't going to do any better than that. One friend I know has a Toyota Sequia (sp?) and another has a Nissan Pathfinder. The SUV has *much* less room than the minivan and is difficult to get in and out of regardless of the seat you're riding in because the doors are so short. The van rides like a big car and has sliding doors on both sides making it easy to get in and out. The kicker? The SUV owner is a couple with 2 kids and despite the fact that a minivan would've made more sense she refused to look at any of them because they don't look "cool" like an SUV. To me that thinking is just stupid but all too common.

I take it you didn't bother to read all of the thread.

Read through it and get back. All of your arguments have already been discussed.

Sorry, there were like 150 posts and I didn't feel like doing all that reading. I just read the OP and a few more here and there and gave my opinion. Either way, my arguments are valid.

No, they are not valid. Your "the majority of SUVs I see have single occupants therefore the owners must not need them" argument has been smashed. Your "SUVs have less room than a minivan" argument is absurd.

In short, had you read the thread, you may not have parroted the same old tired and debunked myths.

Debunked according to who? You? I didn't say all SUV owners don't need them. For those with a very large family or those who haul trailers an SUV is a good option - not the only option but a good option.

As far as size - go back and read again. I compared regular sized SUV's to regular sized minivans. They each hold about the same amount of people/cargo and in the example I gave the minivan is much easier to get in and out of and a better choice for the family in that example.

Define "regular sized."

If you mean the car based SUVs then yes, I agree with you. However, when you get to car based SUVs all the negatives the anti-SUV crowd complain about are gone. Car based SUVs have the same gas mileage as minivans and large sedans and their bumper height is at car level.

So what's the beef?

The beef in this thread is over large, truck based SUVs.

 

[Robor]

When I say regular sized I'm not talking about the huge SUV's so I guess I'm talking about car based. As far as usefulness I know my friends Grand Am held 3 or 4 guys and 3 sets of golf clubs while his wifes SUV couldn't.

Still, car based SUV's are still difficult to see around when you're behind them. That's my major gripe about SUV's. I like to be able to see what's ahead of me without having to follow 10 cars back. Follow a car and you can do that. Follow an SUV of any size and because of the height you can't. And yes I know this also applies to a minivan and truck.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Robor
When I say regular sized I'm not talking about the huge SUV's so I guess I'm talking about car based. As far as usefulness I know my friends Grand Am held 3 or 4 guys and 3 sets of golf clubs while his wifes SUV couldn't.

Still, car based SUV's are still difficult to see around when you're behind them. That's my major gripe about SUV's. I like to be able to see what's ahead of me without having to follow 10 cars back. Follow a car and you can do that. Follow an SUV of any size and because of the height you can't. And yes I know this also applies to a minivan and truck.

OK then. So you'd have the same beef with vans as you'd have with car based SUVs.

Then your point is moot.

 

[imthebadguy]

fvck teh EPA, howcome they are going after ford for the excursion and not touching GM for the suburbun,or H2

 

[judasmachine]

while they're at it, why don't they just start making responsible vehicles.