Absolute Must Read

[Perknose]

Originally posted by: Centinel

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: Centinel
Honestly my only reply to this is:

I've never been in war, therefore I have no basis to criticize those soldiers. Until I have been in a situation where I have to worry about whether a civilian is going to give me flowers one day, or an explosive the next, i'll kindly keep my mouth shut.

Until i've seen my friends killed right next to me, i'll kindly keep my mouth shut.

Fair enough, but this article's thrust is NOT to criticize the soldiers, it is to call into question the wisdom of the politicians who put them in this brutal, ultimately unwinnable, and ALL TOO FORESEEABLE situation!

It is NOT the troop's fault. In their place, I'd do the same damn thing.

Can you not see, from this article, even a glimpse of how we are LOSING this war with our tactics, for which we, once there, have little alternative?

Do you not now feel anger towards the vainglorious politicians who put those troops in this awful situation, despite the almost unanimous warnings from the foreign policy professionals in their own government?

There have been mistakes....i'll agree to that. I was against us originally going to Iraq in the first place. However, my only question to you is:

Are american lives worth more than Iraqi lives? If we pull out of Iraq, what of the Iraqi people?

I refer you to the now bolded in my statement above, and reiterate my last question above to you:

Do you not now feel anger towards the vainglorious politicians who put those troops in this awful situation, despite the almost unanimous warnings from the foreign policy professionals in their own government?

 

[daniel1113]

Do you realize how many civilians died during the American Revolution? Current estimated are around 50,000. It happens.

19th Century Death Toll Estimates

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: daniel1113

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: daniel1113

Originally posted by: dahunan
The problem is the Iraqi citizens NEVER EVER DID ANYTHING TO HURT AMERICA YET WE HAVE NOW MURDERED MORE THAN 10,000 OF THEM... Democracy -- one bullet at a time

Murder? Hardly. Perhaps you should review your dictionary, as there is a difference between murder and killing. War is hell - innocent people will die.

You see, people like you are the problem. You equate the casualties of war to be no different than the murders and attrocities committed by tyrants like Saddam. I pity you, really.

Actually the problem is with people like you who are so desensitized that you easily write off situations like this with the coy phrase"War is Hell"

The truth hurts. It's amazing how much truth those three words hold, isn't it?

Truth, how does a 19 year old little punk know anything about the real truth, especially when it comes to war? Save your pity for yourself, especially if you happen to find yourself over there in the same situations as those soldiers.

 

[daniel1113]

Originally posted by: Perknose
Do you not now feel anger towards the vainglorious politicians who put those troops in this awful situation, despite the almost unanimous warnings from the foreign policy professionals in their own government?

I, for one, don't feel anger towards the politicians that sent our troops to Iraq. I feel anger towards the politicians that won't allow our troops to do what is necessary to be successful.

 

[daniel1113]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Truth, how does a 19 year old little punk know anything about the real truth, especially when it comes to war? Save your pity for yourself, especially if you happen to find yourself over there in the same situations as those soldiers.

Are you trying to tell me that war isn't hell?

I never realized age was a prerequisite for truth.

 

[SuperTool]

I don't buy it. They are welcoming us with open arms and flowers. It's the liberal media shooting at our soldiers. It's Mike Wallace, Run!!!

 

[Centinel]

Perknose: I read it, and I reject your premises. They are simply incorrect.

Coming from someone who has an educaction background in foreign and security policy, I will say the Bush administration made the correct decision based on information at hand AT THAT POINT IN TIME.

Notice the emphasis. That information turned out to be wrong...which is unfortunate. I'm disappointed in my leaders for allowing a system to develop in the intelligence community that led to the faulty information. Am I mad at them? No. Do I wish things had turned out differently? Yes.

Noone is perfect. Not them, not me, not you.

I have answered your question Perknose, now you answer mine.

 

[Centinel]

Originally posted by: SuperTool
I don't buy it. They are welcoming us with open arms and flowers. It's the liberal media shooting at our soldiers. It's Mike Wallace, Run!!!

Yes...all the people attacking US soldiers are Iraqis. You know, like the Iraqi that bombed the chow hall in Mosul.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot
More anti-american propaganda from a liberal rag that refuses to acknowledge all the good news coming for iraq.

The Economist is a "liberal rag" ???? :roll: At least, your name shows you believe in truth in advertising.

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: daniel1113
Do you realize how many civilians died during the American Revolution? Current estimated are around 50,000. It happens.

19th Century Death Toll Estimates

Self Determined Revolution

Did the Iraqis ask us to come?

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: miketheidiot
More anti-american propaganda from a liberal rag that refuses to acknowledge all the good news coming for iraq.

The Economist is a "liberal rag" ???? :roll: At least, your name shows you believe in truth in advertising.

he was mocking the neocons in here..

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: daniel1113

Originally posted by: Perknose
Do you not now feel anger towards the vainglorious politicians who put those troops in this awful situation, despite the almost unanimous warnings from the foreign policy professionals in their own government?

I, for one, don't feel anger towards the politicians that sent our troops to Iraq. I feel anger towards the politicians that won't allow our troops to do what is necessary to be successful.

If you support our actions in Iraq then how come you don't join up yourself? You are at the perfect age and I'm sure that the Army would welcome you with open arms. Walk the walk Danny Boy!

 

[daniel1113]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: daniel1113
Do you realize how many civilians died during the American Revolution? Current estimated are around 50,000. It happens.

19th Century Death Toll Estimates

Self Determined Revolution

Did the Iraqis ask us to come?

I'm sure their crys for help got lost in the telegraphs they weren't allowed to send :roll:

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: Centinel

Originally posted by: SuperTool
I don't buy it. They are welcoming us with open arms and flowers. It's the liberal media shooting at our soldiers. It's Mike Wallace, Run!!!

Yes...all the people attacking US soldiers are Iraqis. You know, like the Iraqi that bombed the chow hall in Mosul.

Yes, we need to kill all those Iraqis because they are giving us too many flowers.

 

[daniel1113]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: daniel1113

Originally posted by: Perknose
Do you not now feel anger towards the vainglorious politicians who put those troops in this awful situation, despite the almost unanimous warnings from the foreign policy professionals in their own government?

I, for one, don't feel anger towards the politicians that sent our troops to Iraq. I feel anger towards the politicians that won't allow our troops to do what is necessary to be successful.

If you support our actions in Iraq then how come you don't join up yourself? You are at the perfect age and I'm sure that the Army would welcome you with open arms. Walk the walk Danny Boy!

I don't want to be in the military. Pretty simple, really.

Of course, you already know that your statement is ridiculous. Everyone that supports a war shouldn't enlist in the armed forces.

I would have no problem going off to war if needed. I would be the first to sign-up. Fortunately for me, and many others, we have a healthy volunteer-based armed forces.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: daniel1113

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: daniel1113

Originally posted by: Perknose
Do you not now feel anger towards the vainglorious politicians who put those troops in this awful situation, despite the almost unanimous warnings from the foreign policy professionals in their own government?

I, for one, don't feel anger towards the politicians that sent our troops to Iraq. I feel anger towards the politicians that won't allow our troops to do what is necessary to be successful.

If you support our actions in Iraq then how come you don't join up yourself? You are at the perfect age and I'm sure that the Army would welcome you with open arms. Walk the walk Danny Boy!

I don't want to be in the military. Pretty simple, really.

Of course not, why risk your neck in a way that you support when there are others to do it for you

Of course, you already know that your statement is ridiculous. Everyone that supports a war shouldn't enlist in the armed forces.

No but able bodied young men like yourself should have no qualms about it, especially if they support the war as much as you do

I would have no problem going off to war if needed. I would be the first to sign-up. Fortunately for me, and many others, we have a healthy volunteer-based armed forces.

They can use more youngster like yourself to join. You think they have enough? Then why are they extending tours for National Guardsman?

 

[daniel1113]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: daniel1113

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: daniel1113

Originally posted by: Perknose
Do you not now feel anger towards the vainglorious politicians who put those troops in this awful situation, despite the almost unanimous warnings from the foreign policy professionals in their own government?

I, for one, don't feel anger towards the politicians that sent our troops to Iraq. I feel anger towards the politicians that won't allow our troops to do what is necessary to be successful.

If you support our actions in Iraq then how come you don't join up yourself? You are at the perfect age and I'm sure that the Army would welcome you with open arms. Walk the walk Danny Boy!

I don't want to be in the military. Pretty simple, really.

Of course not, why risk your neck in a way that you support when there are others to do it for you

Of course, you already know that your statement is ridiculous. Everyone that supports a war shouldn't enlist in the armed forces.

No but able bodied young men like yourself should have no qualms about it, especially if they support the war as much as you do

I would have no problem going off to war if needed. I would be the first to sign-up. Fortunately for me, and many others, we have a healthy volunteer-based armed forces.

They can use more youngster like yourself to join. You think they have enough? Then why are they extending tours for National Guardsman?

You arguments are pointless. My previous post already answers your ongoing questions. We have a volunteer based military. The job of the military is to fight. It really is that simple.

As I said before, if our current military was allowed to fight the war correctly, this war would be going much smoother. The military doesn't need more men, it needs politicians to get off of its back and let it fight.

 

[BBond]

What do you call it when an invader decides to liberate you without your approval?

Plain old fashioned naked aggression.

Once we crossed the threshold in Iraq, using false evidence to excuse this unprovoked invasion, our fate was sealed. We cannot win. The actions described in OP only serve to prove that point.

We have become a nation which can no longer differentiate between simple right and wrong. The more lies we believe, the more atrocities, committed in our name, that we excuse, the worse this situation will become. Until the day we admit these lies to ourselves and hold the people who are responsible for these sins accountable.

 

[daniel1113]

Originally posted by: BBond
What do you call it when an invader decides to liberate you without your approval?

Plain old fashioned naked aggression.

I think most people would call that plain old fashioned "wanting to help others." Silly me.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: daniel1113
[
You arguments are pointless. My previous post already answers your ongoing questions. We have a volunteer based military. The job of the military is to fight. It really is that simple.

I think you lack the courage to back your convictions

As I said before, if our current military was allowed to fight the war correctly, this war would be going much smoother. The military doesn't need more men, it needs politicians to get off of its back and let it fight.

For example?

 

[Centinel]

So noone cares that the Iraqis deserve an election?

 

[her209]

I like the hypocrisy here... remember all these war hawks were just saying exactly the opposite (when speaking about Vietnam) and they were blasting Kerry for it. Burning villages and shooting civilians?

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: daniel1113

Originally posted by: BBond
What do you call it when an invader decides to liberate you without your approval?

Plain old fashioned naked aggression.

I think most people would call that plain old fashioned "wanting to help others." Silly me.

Helping others by razing their cities and killing the inhabitants -- and all based on a pack of lies.

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: Centinel
So noone cares that the Iraqis deserve an election?

Is it only Iraq that deserves one?

 

[daniel1113]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
I think you lack the courage to back your convictions

I think you're an idiot, but that's neither here nor there.

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
For example?

Abu Ghraib.