In the old days someone who did this would be dragged out of a casino and have the life beaten out of them.
Originally posted by: FleshLight
Manybeers needs to learn shuffle algorithims
Originally posted by: ManyBeers
I am not a troll i have over 900 posts on this site and none are troll posts.
Originally posted by: DBL
Originally posted by: ManyBeers
I am not a troll i have over 900 posts on this site and none are troll posts.
Give it a rest. You have no idea what you are talking about.
There never has been a provable instance of cheating of this magnitude on any major site until this story broke. In general, most people lose money but plenty of people make money playing online poker. How can you call someone who consistently makes money playing online poker ignorant or stupid?
Basically, we have an instance of corruption and theft in a business which just happens to be poker. It could happen and does happen in many other types of business all the time. Does that make those customers ignorant or stupid?
Originally posted by: kranky
Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
Originally posted by: ManyBeers
Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
Originally posted by: ManyBeers
Originally posted by: buck
Originally posted by: ManyBeers
People who play online for real money deserve to have their money taken. Come on, what idiot trusts some computer to be dealing honestly. You are out of your mind if you do.
That?s a pretty ignorant statement.
Why? I think your ignorant if you trust some other guys programmable computer to be dealing
honestly(randomly).
B/c if you knew anything about online poker there are thousands of people making money playing online. Even some of us here in this forum that play.
That's the rumor. Thousands of them,....he says. LOL
What's so hard to believe? Do you know how many people play online? Do you know that some of these online poker sites are audited by the Big 3 accounting firms? Trust me when I say you have no idea how big and complex this industry is.
Trust me when I say all the accounting firms in the world can't prevent inside jobs.
Originally posted by: ManyBeers
Originally posted by: DBL
Originally posted by: ManyBeers
I am not a troll i have over 900 posts on this site and none are troll posts.
Give it a rest. You have no idea what you are talking about.
There never has been a provable instance of cheating of this magnitude on any major site until this story broke. In general, most people lose money but plenty of people make money playing online poker. How can you call someone who consistently makes money playing online poker ignorant or stupid?
Basically, we have an instance of corruption and theft in a business which just happens to be poker. It could happen and does happen in many other types of business all the time. Does that make those customers ignorant or stupid?
Why don't you give it a rest. It is my opinion that if you play real money poker online you are taking a foolish risk. If you don't agree with that fine. Take your condescending arrogance someplace else. GIVE IT A REST.... who the fvck are you.
Originally posted by: DBL
Originally posted by: ManyBeers
Originally posted by: DBL
Originally posted by: ManyBeers
I am not a troll i have over 900 posts on this site and none are troll posts.
Give it a rest. You have no idea what you are talking about.
There never has been a provable instance of cheating of this magnitude on any major site until this story broke. In general, most people lose money but plenty of people make money playing online poker. How can you call someone who consistently makes money playing online poker ignorant or stupid?
Basically, we have an instance of corruption and theft in a business which just happens to be poker. It could happen and does happen in many other types of business all the time. Does that make those customers ignorant or stupid?
Why don't you give it a rest. It is my opinion that if you play real money poker online you are taking a foolish risk. If you don't agree with that fine. Take your condescending arrogance someplace else. GIVE IT A REST.... who the fvck are you.
You are the one who has not added any value to this thread other than to repeat the same old tired mantra espoused again and again by those who have a poor understanding of how online poker works and which fails to address any of the specifics of this particular case.
Your opinion has been recorded and will remain here for others amusement.
Originally posted by: ManyBeers
It's amazing how these defenders of online poker can assure people that it is perfectly safe trusting some computer in a room or basement in Costa Rica or wherever they are to be dealing legitimately and everything is hunky dory. And by the way i wouldn't trust the computer if it was right there on the table. Because i or someone i own didn't program it. But that is just me.
Originally posted by: DBL
Originally posted by: ManyBeers
It's amazing how these defenders of online poker can assure people that it is perfectly safe trusting some computer in a room or basement in Costa Rica or wherever they are to be dealing legitimately and everything is hunky dory. And by the way i wouldn't trust the computer if it was right there on the table. Because i or someone i own didn't program it. But that is just me.
I take it your bank account consists of a dark space under your matress then?
Originally posted by: DBL
In general, most people lose money but plenty of people make money playing online poker. How can you call someone who consistently makes money playing online poker ignorant or stupid?
Anybody can type in a chat window or forum post how they won 50,000.00 playing online poker last year or whenever., but that is all it is...typed words in a chat window or forum post. Prove it.
Originally posted by: ManyBeers
Originally posted by: DBL
Originally posted by: ManyBeers
Originally posted by: DBL
Originally posted by: ManyBeers
I am not a troll i have over 900 posts on this site and none are troll posts.
Give it a rest. You have no idea what you are talking about.
There never has been a provable instance of cheating of this magnitude on any major site until this story broke. In general, most people lose money but plenty of people make money playing online poker. How can you call someone who consistently makes money playing online poker ignorant or stupid?
Basically, we have an instance of corruption and theft in a business which just happens to be poker. It could happen and does happen in many other types of business all the time. Does that make those customers ignorant or stupid?
Why don't you give it a rest. It is my opinion that if you play real money poker online you are taking a foolish risk. If you don't agree with that fine. Take your condescending arrogance someplace else. GIVE IT A REST.... who the fvck are you.
You are the one who has not added any value to this thread other than to repeat the same old tired mantra espoused again and again by those who have a poor understanding of how online poker works and which fails to address any of the specifics of this particular case.
Your opinion has been recorded and will remain here for others amusement.
Just for curiosities sake what value have you added?
And one other thing in the online poker debate it is the defenders who are the most vociferous in my experience. Check out RGP or Two plus Two for proof. In fact 2+2 will not allow denigration of online pokers legitimacy on its site.
Originally posted by: ManyBeers
Originally posted by: DBL
In general, most people lose money but plenty of people make money playing online poker. How can you call someone who consistently makes money playing online poker ignorant or stupid?
Anybody can type in a chat window or forum post how they won 50,000.00 playing online poker last year or whenever., but that is all it is...typed words in a chat window or forum post. Prove it.
Originally posted by: ManyBeers
Why? I think your ignorant if you trust some other guys programmable computer to be dealing
honestly(randomly).
ps: How naive can people be?...
Originally posted by: DBL
Originally posted by: ManyBeers
Originally posted by: DBL
In general, most people lose money but plenty of people make money playing online poker. How can you call someone who consistently makes money playing online poker ignorant or stupid?
Anybody can type in a chat window or forum post how they won 50,000.00 playing online poker last year or whenever., but that is all it is...typed words in a chat window or forum post. Prove it.
You sound bitter. How much have you lost playing poker online?
Originally posted by: Kyteland
Originally posted by: ManyBeers
Why? I think your ignorant if you trust some other guys programmable computer to be dealing
honestly(randomly).
ps: How naive can people be?...
With that statement you've ruled out playing nearly every game of chance that exists today, either online or in a casino. I make slots and poker games for a living. Every single one of them is "some other guys programmable computer." If you've been in a casino recently you've probably played a game I worked on. How do you trust those games when you play them? How do you trust that I'm not trying to pull the exact same kind of inside job to screw you out of your money? There's a non-trivial chance that I could. It's happened before.
People have said that you should play in a poker room, yet most of those places use a card shuffling machine these days. Let me tell you, the software/algorithms that shuffle physical cards is exactly the same as what shuffles virtual cards on an online server. How do you trust that machine in the casino? If I had backdoor access to the shuffling machine I could determine what your cards are in that situation without you showing me.
You have to trust technology at some point, even with your money. Online banking, ATMs, etc. all can be manipulated to screw you if the people making them have bad intentions. That's exactly why these things are regulated and tested the way they are. Online poker may not have the same kind of standards slot machines currently enjoy in the US, but the wonderful thing about games of chance and mathematics is it's easy to spot check sites like that. They self regulate because we haven't forced our own regulations on them yet. It'll happen eventually.
Originally posted by: ManyBeers
Do i sound like the kind of guy who would play any computer controlled game of chance in a casino. Have you read my posts? I never play any games in any casino ever. The only game i play in casinos is poker or extremely rarely Blackjack. I don't like the shuffle machines, and i agree with you they probably could be manipulated. So i mostly play tournaments and if they ever become automated i won't play. I only trust a human dealer and human players with cards. I won't get into the crap about ATMs. I know how much i have in my acct.
Originally posted by: Kyteland
Originally posted by: ManyBeers
Do i sound like the kind of guy who would play any computer controlled game of chance in a casino. Have you read my posts? I never play any games in any casino ever. The only game i play in casinos is poker or extremely rarely Blackjack. I don't like the shuffle machines, and i agree with you they probably could be manipulated. So i mostly play tournaments and if they ever become automated i won't play. I only trust a human dealer and human players with cards. I won't get into the crap about ATMs. I know how much i have in my acct.
Luddite.
I'm a mathematician and programmer. I've spent more time working on, testing and proving our RNG than you could possibly imagine. You have *way* more than a reasonable guarantee that it behaves randomly. Not only that but state and national regulatory agencies all over the world have independently black box tested it as well as code reviewed everything, so you can be confident that I haven't done anything to compromise it.Originally posted by: ManyBeers
Originally posted by: Kyteland
Originally posted by: ManyBeers
Do i sound like the kind of guy who would play any computer controlled game of chance in a casino. Have you read my posts? I never play any games in any casino ever. The only game i play in casinos is poker or extremely rarely Blackjack. I don't like the shuffle machines, and i agree with you they probably could be manipulated. So i mostly play tournaments and if they ever become automated i won't play. I only trust a human dealer and human players with cards. I won't get into the crap about ATMs. I know how much i have in my acct.
Luddite.
LOL. When real money is at stake especially at events such as the WSOP i don't want anything that would even hint at impropriety or the possibility of such possible. When i put up 2,000.00 or more dollars to play i want human dealers only because i believe it is the only way do have a resonable guarantee of a truly random deal. Which is all any player can hope for.
Originally posted by: Kyteland
Haven't you ever hear the phrase "card mechanic" before? You have no guarantee that having a human deal and shuffle your cards will be anything close to random.
I guess my point was that your odds of running into a compromised machine at a casino it roughly equivalent to running into a card mechanic in a poker room, roughly zero. There's no reason to trust it more or less than a person.Originally posted by: daniel1113
Originally posted by: Kyteland
Haven't you ever hear the phrase "card mechanic" before? You have no guarantee that having a human deal and shuffle your cards will be anything close to random.
Sleight of hand, specifically at the card table, is one of my big hobbies. And while a good mechanic can operate completely undetected at just about any game, they aren't a big problem. Very few people are dedicated enough to develop the skills necessary to be a real mechanic, and your chances of running into one at your neighborhood poker game is roughly zero. However, unskilled cheaters relying primarily on gaffs such as marked cards are rampant. They are the cheaters poker players should worry about.
Of course, your point is still valid. A human dealer is hardly a guarantee of honesty.
Originally posted by: Kyteland
I guess my point was that your odds of running into a compromised machine at a casino it roughly equivalent to running into a card mechanic in a poker room, roughly zero. There's no reason to trust it more or less than a person.Originally posted by: daniel1113
Originally posted by: Kyteland
Haven't you ever hear the phrase "card mechanic" before? You have no guarantee that having a human deal and shuffle your cards will be anything close to random.
Sleight of hand, specifically at the card table, is one of my big hobbies. And while a good mechanic can operate completely undetected at just about any game, they aren't a big problem. Very few people are dedicated enough to develop the skills necessary to be a real mechanic, and your chances of running into one at your neighborhood poker game is roughly zero. However, unskilled cheaters relying primarily on gaffs such as marked cards are rampant. They are the cheaters poker players should worry about.
Of course, your point is still valid. A human dealer is hardly a guarantee of honesty.