According to my professor, tax laws are written by the rich, for the rich.

[pstylesss]

Originally posted by: Tango
Income taxes are not the only taxes you people should be considering.

Yeah, but at the same time sales tax isn't scaled.

 

[hans007]

according to most current federal and state tax rates, the poor basically pay very little tax. someting like 50% of tax is paid for by the top 15% income earners, the rest by the middle and mostly UPPER middle calss, and the poor (who make less than 20k a year) barely pay any tax.

i would have to say if anything, it is not fair to the rich... their tax rates are what at some points nearly 20% higher.


consumption tax (Sales tax) is the same for everyone as it is just a percentage of sales. but that said, poor people to maintain a standard of living that is livable obviously pay more sales tax as a percentage of their income for basic necessities than a rich person.

but oh well, thats life. if you wanna pay a lower percentage of your income in consumption taxes... well, figure out how to make more money . i am by no means rich, but there would be no incentive to even try to move ahead in a career if it just got taxed away.

america got where it is, by peopl ewanting to have more money, its the primary reason people even bother to try .

 

[imported_Tango]

Originally posted by: ZeroIQ

Originally posted by: Tango
Income taxes are not the only taxes you people should be considering.

Yeah, but at the same time sales tax isn't scaled.

Sales tax obviously affects lower income classes as their consumption is a higher percentage of their income.

But I was referring to assets and revenues from the financial markets.

People read rich, and think we are talking about individuals with high-income jobs. If you need an income you obviously are not rich, no matter how high the income is. Assets are what make people rich, and I can tell you those are taxed extremely generously.

Personally, I am in the highest taxation bracket, and I've always been since I was born; still I think taxes should be higher. Much higher actually. I personally would have no problem in paying much more than I do to finance social programs and (especially) education and the arts.

Part of the fact is, poor and uneducated people have a very high social cost on the system. I would prefer to pay more taxes but see less people struggling with 2 or 3 jobs and less kids getting deep in loans to get a college degree or send their kids to school. Or not being able to get a college degree at all. In the long run we (my personal opinion) would all be better off.

I must confess that my ideas might be skewed by the fact that I don't really care that much about money and I have quite a frugal life. I basically value so many other other things in life much more than money.
It might be because I never had problems with money and I understand other people might feel different about this.

Still, I always considered the "screw the poor, don't touch my money" argument extremely gross and short-sighted. If you have a lot of poor people living around you, you will pay anyway in terms of crime and social decadence. Why do you think the US has such an enormous prison population?

 

[imported_Tango]

Originally posted by: hans007
according to most current federal and state tax rates, the poor basically pay very little tax. someting like 50% of tax is paid for by the top 15% income earners, the rest by the middle and mostly UPPER middle calss, and the poor (who make less than 20k a year) barely pay any tax.

i would have to say if anything, it is not fair to the rich... their tax rates are what at some points nearly 20% higher.


consumption tax (Sales tax) is the same for everyone as it is just a percentage of sales. but that said, poor people to maintain a standard of living that is livable obviously pay more sales tax as a percentage of their income for basic necessities than a rich person.

but oh well, thats life. if you wanna pay a lower percentage of your income in consumption taxes... well, figure out how to make more money . i am by no means rich, but there would be no incentive to even try to move ahead in a career if it just got taxed away.

america got where it is, by peopl ewanting to have more money, its the primary reason people even bother to try .

There's a difference between people wanting to make more money, and people needing to make more money.

The Gini index of income distribution in this country has been deteriorating severely in the last 40 years, to Brazil-like levels. I personally think that it's a shame a rich country like the US has so many people living in poverty. Especially working poor. Again, this has a cost, just like taxes. Indirect instead of direct, but eventually it's the same thing. You pay in terms of crime, social decay and deviant behaviors.

And I always thought people tried harder to accomplish something to be proud of, not just to make more money. Why would people literature and art otherwise? You should only have lawyers (which to a certain extent is sadly true...)

Anyway... my position has always been that there is no right solution for taxation. Just different policies leading to different social effects. You just have to pick what effect you want to have on your population.

And I agree that the US became the country it is now (both in the good and bad aspects) also because of its taxation policy.

But the US today is not the same country it was 100 years ago.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

<insert gross income>*<insert tax percentage>=taxes

Simple, no exceptions, fair, and look on the bright side.. just think of all the money we'd save on ink and tax forms..

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: b0mbrman

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: DVK916
He said the government is in the pockets of the rich and big corps, and tax laws are passed to take from the poor to give to the rich. That when they do a tax cut for the rich, they raise taxes on the poor.

What do you think of this.

Where do you think the rich get their play money for the stock market from???

From working hard to eventually earn a higher income?

Working hard doing what???

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: DVK916
He said the government is in the pockets of the rich and big corps, and tax laws are passed to take from the poor to give to the rich. That when they do a tax cut for the rich, they raise taxes on the poor.

What do you think of this.

Where do you think the rich get their play money for the stock market from???

Most of them worked very hard for it. Not all rich people are like Paris Hilton.

Worked hard doing what?

 

[Conky]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: b0mbrman

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: DVK916
He said the government is in the pockets of the rich and big corps, and tax laws are passed to take from the poor to give to the rich. That when they do a tax cut for the rich, they raise taxes on the poor.

What do you think of this.

Where do you think the rich get their play money for the stock market from???

From working hard to eventually earn a higher income?

Working hard doing what???

Stealing from the poor, obviously.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Conky

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: b0mbrman

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: DVK916
He said the government is in the pockets of the rich and big corps, and tax laws are passed to take from the poor to give to the rich. That when they do a tax cut for the rich, they raise taxes on the poor.

What do you think of this.

Where do you think the rich get their play money for the stock market from???

From working hard to eventually earn a higher income?

Working hard doing what???

Stealing from the poor, obviously.

:laugh:

 

[her209]

Reposted from another thread.

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: eskimospy
I'm guessing you didn't read my post. I suggest you go back and try again. My pont was not that the rich do not pay more then the poor, as that is obvious. My point was the disparity is made to look artificially large in that report. That is not contempt... that is reality.

50% of the people in this country pay 96% of income taxes, which means the other 50% pay less than 4%. Is that enough disparity for you?

Look... figures for you... Page 18 of PDF
Effective Income Tax rate for 2001
Bottom 20% -5.6%
Next 20% 0.3%

Share of Tax liability
Lowest 20% 1.1%
Next 20% 5%
Top 20% 65.3%
Top 10% 50%- that means 10% of the people in this country pay have the federal income taxes.

From your link taking the data from Table A-1:

Lowest Quintile 22.2 x 14,900 = 330,780
Second Quintile 21.1 x 34,200 = 721,620
Middle Quintile 21.6 x 51,500 = 1,112,400
Fourth Quintile 21.5 x 75,600 = 1,625,400

Total of Bottom Four Quintile 3,790,200

Highest Quintile 22.5 x 182,700 = 4,110,750

So that means the top 20% made more than 50% of the money, or in other words, they made more money than the bottom 80% of the country.

 

[mfs378]

Its tough to define fair, but I'm pretty sure that we can agree that if you earn more, the fraction you pay in (overall) taxes shouldn't be less. That can happen (and happens often) under the current tax system. Hence, the conclusion that tax code is biased toward the wealthy.

 

[Dunbar]

By focusing on federal income tax this discussion ignores the other forms of tax we pay that are regressive (affect poor more than rich). There's payroll tax (medicare, social security), state income tax and sales tax.

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: Dunbar
By focusing on federal income tax this discussion ignores the other forms of tax we pay that are regressive (affect poor more than rich). There's payroll tax (medicare, social security), state income tax and sales tax.

Don't forget property taxes.

 

[mercanucaribe]

Originally posted by: spidey07
And the BS indoctrination contiues.

As your prof how much he makes. Ask him how much taxes he pays.

Then compare that with the INCREDIBLE tax burden anybody beyond a middle class income has. Ask him to explain that. Get your FACTs from IRS.GOV.

Shut he's mouth quick.

dagnabbit
I bit the lure again.

MOUTH!

It's not hard to give yourself a huge bonus and make up for the 35% tax rate (which isn't on you whole income to begin with), when your corporation is getting subsidies, free or nearly free use of national resources like oil, and government bailouts.

 

[mrkun]

Originally posted by: Conky

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb
You must not like a thriving economy, then. Check out how bad things were last time we had taxes like that. (hint: think Jimmy Carter)

Dude, don't dis democrats here unless you wanna be banned.

Even if Jimmy Carter enabled radical muslims to take over Iran... don't go against the anti-American tide here.

Actually it was President Eisenhower that allowed radical Muslims to take over Iran.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: Dunbar
By focusing on federal income tax this discussion ignores the other forms of tax we pay that are regressive (affect poor more than rich). There's payroll tax (medicare, social security), state income tax and sales tax.

Don't forget property taxes.

State income taxes are generally progressive like the federal income tax.

Medicare and Social Security are more like insurance programs/retirement funding than taxes. Yeah, they suck blue whale but that is basically what they are.

Property taxes - people end up paying for what they can afford. Rich people usually buy expensive property and pay more in property taxes. Poor people generally pay less in property taxes with those renting paying for property taxes with their rent.

The OP's professor needs to consider who ends up paying corporate taxes. The corporations don't. Individuals end up paying the taxes for the corporations when they buy the corporation's products and services.

 

[mzkhadir]

Originally posted by: Gibsons
<-------- P&N

 

[mercanucaribe]

Originally posted by: ZeroIQ

Originally posted by: pyonir

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb

Originally posted by: pyonir

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb
The rich pay the VAST majority of the taxes.

No doubt about that, but at what percent of their income? Are they paying more than the ~25% of my gross income i pay?

Hell yes, they are. Top tax bracket is 35%. That is PLENTY high. The 25% bracket is for folks in the 31-64k range.
The percentage should NOT keep going up as income increases.

In fact, if they really want to make things fair, they need to go with a flat tax across the board. The rich will still pay the majority of the taxes, but everyone will pay the same percentage of their income.

Understandable. But is a person making 200k a year going to miss that 35% more than i am going to miss that 25% at 30k a year?

So because I earn more, I deserve to keep less of what I make. Who are you to decide what I will miss and wont miss. I earn it just the same way someone else did who makes less than me - by working.

As of now, I have no problem with the current system, but I'm tired of people who think the rich (or the government) owe them something. Its ridiculous.

You don't deserve to keep less of what you make. You pay more because you use the infrastructure and environment of this country to make more money. If you think you could do better by yourself, without this country's institutions, go ahead and buy your own island.

 

[SparkyJJO]

Originally posted by: DVK916
He said the government is in the pockets of the rich and big corps, and tax laws are passed to take from the poor to give to the rich. That when they do a tax cut for the rich, they raise taxes on the poor.

What do you think of this.

That's stupid. That is what I think. The richer people pay a much higher percentage than the poorer people do.

 

[Flyback]

Originally posted by: mercanucaribe
You don't deserve to keep less of what you make. You pay more because you use the infrastructure and environment of this country to make more money. If you think you could do better by yourself, without this country's institutions, go ahead and buy your own island.

That is assuming you can quantify usage of the infrastructure based on the dollars made. That is simply not accurate.

 

[dennilfloss]

According to my professor, tax laws are written by the rich, for the rich.

That goes back all the way to the Plantagenet king John when he tried to increase taxes on his nobles. Result was the Magna Carta.

 

[SVT Cobra]

marked

 

[desteffy]

9 out of 10 rich people wont agree!

 

[SparkyJJO]

Originally posted by: desteffy
9 out of 10 rich people wont agree!

and some of the poor folk (like me) don't either. I think that the people who agree with this kind of stuff are just jealous.

 

[0roo0roo]

fair is enough taxes to pay for the system without taking away incentive to earn more. no one gets rich on their own, the entire system that creates the infrastructure/workers does. it pays for those who give their lives in war or in policing to keep the system running so that you can make the wealt h. so of course its fair to pay for it. its not like your dying for your country when you make money.

and well yea, many politicians are corporate stooges