ACLU Smartphone App!

[John Connor]

And cops are getting body cameras. So what's the point? Everyone filming everyone.

 

[Double Trouble]

Love the ACLU. One of the most honorable and truly American (in ideals) organizations around.

I'm a big fan of the concept, but the execution leaves a lot to be desired. The ACLU seems to be drifting to the left.

 

[fskimospy]

Love the ACLU. One of the most honorable and truly American (in ideals) organizations around.

It really is an amazing organization. I donate every year to both the ACLU and the NYCLU.

 

[shortylickens]

And cops are getting body cameras. So what's the point? Everyone filming everyone.

Have you not noticed any time the cops get in trouble the video on both sides seems to disappear?

 

[PokerGuy]

It really is an amazing organization. I donate every year to both the ACLU and the NYCLU.

Obviously not surprising at all, of course you'd want to support an organization that shares your left wing views.

For people not on that side of the political spectrum, the aclu is more akin to a-sometimes-necessary-evil than a wonderful "amazing" organization.

 

[fskimospy]

Obviously not surprising at all, of course you'd want to support an organization that shares your left wing views.

For people not on that side of the political spectrum, the aclu is more akin to a-sometimes-necessary-evil than a wonderful "amazing" organization.

The ACLU is on the side of civil liberties, the same as I am. Their stance on the second amendment is functionally meaningless because they don't really litigate on that. If your argument is that they are bad because they don't litigate on your amendment of choice, I find that silly. (complaining about non-action could be done for literally every advocacy organization that exists)

As for the BSA, I don't agree with the ACLU on that. The BSA should be barred from state funding and should be mocked for their position, but they should be free to have it.

It doesn't change the fact that the ACLU has had an overwhelmingly positive influence overall. I get why conservatives don't like it, because the ACLU frequently acts against social conservatives. That's really not their fault though. If social conservatives stopped trying to force other people to do things using the power of government, the ACLU would stop suing them. It's funny how limiting the coercive power of government is somehow 'liberal'.

As for everyone else, there are few organizations that are more deserving of donations than the ACLU. I strongly encourage people to donate to them if they are looking for an organization to support.

 

[PokerGuy]

The ACLU is on the side of civil liberties, the same as I am. Their stance on the second amendment is functionally meaningless because they don't really litigate on that. If your argument is that they are bad because they don't litigate on your amendment of choice, I find that silly. (complaining about non-action could be done for literally every advocacy organization that exists)

Last I checked, the 2nd amendment is part of the bill of rights just like the 1st or 4th or whatever. Why are only certain liberties to be protected?? You do realize that they do in fact participate in cases involving the second amendment and file amicus briefs etc right? They've decided that they don't seek to protect 2nd amendment rights the same way as, say, 1st amendment right violations or 4th or 14th etc because they don't view "the people" in the 2nd amendment to be individual rights (it only applies to a collective militia in their view). In other words, they're making choices as to which civil liberties are to be defended / protected more than others. Liberties liked by libs will be vigorously defended, liberties the left doesn't like won't be defended (or worse, they will be attacked, as with the BSA).

As for the BSA, I don't agree with the ACLU on that. The BSA should be barred from state funding and should be mocked for their position, but they should be free to have it.

Disagree with them needing to be barred from state funding or mocked, but that's besides the point. The ACLU fought them tooth and nail, attacking liberties, not protecting civil liberties.

It doesn't change the fact that the ACLU has had an overwhelmingly positive influence overall.

Disagree, their influence is negative, but occasionally positive.

I get why conservatives don't like it, because the ACLU frequently acts against social conservatives.

Duh, they are a liberal advocacy group pretending to be a civil liberties defense group.

That's really not their fault though. If social conservatives stopped trying to force other people to do things using the power of government, the ACLU would stop suing them.

bwahahahahahahahah , now that's rich. Yes, the "social conservatives" are always using the power of government to force other people to do things. lol Like baking cakes for groups when they don't want to.... Whatever you're smoking, it's good stuff!

That's just another perfect example of how your left wing lens distorts reality and thus you love the aclu. They support your (left wing) causes, so you applaud them for it.

It's funny how limiting the coercive power of government is somehow 'liberal'.

The coercive power of government is not always liberal, but it very often is. The difference is, when it's coercive power on an issue you agree with (forcing someone to pay for contraceptives for example), the aclu generally won't support the people against it. When it's coercive power on an issue you disagree with, the aclu (sharing your liberal outlook) will fight against it.

Bottom line, it's a heavily left wing organization, so lefties will love and support it. Occasionally it is a good thing, so righties grudgingly tolerate it, but it's certainly not a wonderful or amazing org.

As for everyone else, there are few organizations that are more deserving of donations than the ACLU. I strongly encourage people to donate to them if they are looking for an organization to support.

They wouldn't crack the top 100 organizations that are worthy of support, until they change their heavy left wing bent.

 

[norseamd]

Honestly I find most of the views above total shit.

 

[John Connor]

Have you not noticed any time the cops get in trouble the video on both sides seems to disappear?

Not really. Never heard of a 911 tape or radio traffic disappearing either. Fact is if it does that does not help their defense. Jury would be like, oh, sure... it just vanished like Louis Lerner E-mails.

 

[fskimospy]

Last I checked, the 2nd amendment is part of the bill of rights just like the 1st or 4th or whatever. Why are only certain liberties to be protected?? You do realize that they do in fact participate in cases involving the second amendment and file amicus briefs etc right? They've decided that they don't seek to protect 2nd amendment rights the same way as, say, 1st amendment right violations or 4th or 14th etc because they don't view "the people" in the 2nd amendment to be individual rights (it only applies to a collective militia in their view). In other words, they're making choices as to which civil liberties are to be defended / protected more than others. Liberties liked by libs will be vigorously defended, liberties the left doesn't like won't be defended (or worse, they will be attacked, as with the BSA).

They are a private organization that is under no obligation to advocate equally hard for every liberty. Basically everything they choose to do is good, with a couple of things I disagree with.

Who cares if they don't defend all the liberties you want? They defend lots that you want, and that's a good thing.

Disagree with them needing to be barred from state funding or mocked, but that's besides the point. The ACLU fought them tooth and nail, attacking liberties, not protecting civil liberties.

Fighting them 'tooth and nail' is gross hyperbole. Regardless, I do disagree with their stance here.

Disagree, their influence is negative, but occasionally positive.

Duh, they are a liberal advocacy group pretending to be a civil liberties defense group.

Nonsense. They are the most successful civil liberties group in the country. You've bought into partisan nonsense.

bwahahahahahahahah , now that's rich. Yes, the "social conservatives" are always using the power of government to force other people to do things. lol Like baking cakes for groups when they don't want to.... Whatever you're smoking, it's good stuff!

That's just another perfect example of how your left wing lens distorts reality and thus you love the aclu. They support your (left wing) causes, so you applaud them for it.

I encourage you to go look at the cases the ACLU has litigated and is famous for and then see what percentage of them are social conservatives attempting to use the power of government to enforce their views.

I feel like you have a bizarre and unsupportable view of the ACLU, likely distorted by your right wing lens. Back around the Vietnam War era conservatives started attacking the ACLU for defending the right to protest the war, and since then conservatives have become increasingly hostile as elites tell them to.

The coercive power of government is not always liberal, but it very often is. The difference is, when it's coercive power on an issue you agree with (forcing someone to pay for contraceptives for example), the aclu generally won't support the people against it. When it's coercive power on an issue you disagree with, the aclu (sharing your liberal outlook) will fight against it.

Being free from insurance regulation is not a civil liberty I am familiar with. If you think the coercive power of government is 'very often liberal' then you're engaging in some mighty selective interpretation of history.

Bottom line, it's a heavily left wing organization, so lefties will love and support it. Occasionally it is a good thing, so righties grudgingly tolerate it, but it's certainly not a wonderful or amazing org.

They wouldn't crack the top 100 organizations that are worthy of support, until they change their heavy left wing bent.

If you believe defending civil liberties is 'heavily left wing' then... uhm... okay. I view that as a universal thing that everyone should support.

Let's do a quick rundown on what the ACLU is for and primarily litigates against:

The good things:

1. No religion in schools.
2. No religion in government.
3. Limit government surveillance powers.
4. Against indefinite detention.
5. Against torture.
6. Prevent discrimination based on religion/gender/sexual orientation/etc.
7. Protecting abortion rights.
8. Protecting freedom of speech.
9. Restricting civil forfeiture.
10. Reigning in abusive police.
11. Ending the war on drugs.
12. etc, etc, etc.

Bad things:

1. They filed a lawsuit against the BSA that I disagree with.
2. Apparently not suing for gun rights is a bad thing.

Feel free to fill in more things (good or bad!), but I imagine the vast majority of people on here agree with the ACLU on the vast majority of things they are involved with.

 

[John Connor]

The good things:

1. No religion in schools. BAD
2. No religion in government. Like taking down crosses at WWII memorials?
3. Limit government surveillance powers.
4. Against indefinite detention. I bet if your wife was raped, set a blaze and killed you would want the SOB to spend the rest of his/her life in prison.
5. Against torture. We don't "torture." The CIA made bad people speak.
6. Prevent discrimination based on religion/gender/sexual orientation/etc. Mostly for the protected class
7. Protecting abortion rights. Rank bull shit and should be manslaughter
8. Protecting freedom of speech. Do they support the drawing of Muhamed cartoons?
9. Restricting civil forfeiture.
10. Reigning in abusive police.
11. Ending the war on drugs. So everyone has the opportunity to be a total fuck up? How do you hold a job?
12. etc, etc, etc.

The ACLU is a selective far-left organization.

 

[norseamd]

WHAT THE FUCK?!!

LITERALLY!

caps

 

[fskimospy]

The ACLU is a selective far-left organization.

Lol, your post says way more about you than it does about the ACLU.

If you actually believe what you wrote you're a goddamn lunatic.

 

[PokerGuy]

They are a private organization that is under no obligation to advocate equally hard for every liberty.

Well duh, nobody said they are under any obligation to do so. With that specification, you've essentially agreed with my assessment. You think they are wonderful because they advocate for mostly left wing causes. People who are not left wingers obviously won't share that enthusiasm, and logically won't support them with donations the way you do.

Basically everything they choose to do is good, with a couple of things I disagree with.

To someone who isn't a leftist, it would be "everything they do is bad, with a couple of things I agree with". That was my point all along. They are a left leaning group generally supporting lefty agendas, with an occasional item that I support.

Who cares if they don't defend all the liberties you want? They defend lots that you want, and that's a good thing.

Actually, no, they don't support "lots of things I want", they generally don't, it's often the opposite.

Fighting them 'tooth and nail' is gross hyperbole.

Yeah, they could have gone much further than all the way up to the SCOTUS... oh wait, no, that's pretty much as far as it goes. No hyperbole at all. They did everything they could to attack the BSA's freedoms.

I encourage you to go look at the cases the ACLU has litigated and is famous for and then see what percentage of them are social conservatives attempting to use the power of government to enforce their views.

Thanks for again agreeing with me (though inadvertently ). They always take up the cases against conservatives, never those against liberals, even though government power is used by both.

Being free from insurance regulation is not a civil liberty I am familiar with.

Having someone pay for your choices in contraception is not a civil liberty I am familiar with.

If you believe defending civil liberties is 'heavily left wing' then... uhm... okay. I view that as a universal thing that everyone should support.

Yes, but that's not what they are doing. Selectively defending those civil liberties that coincide with leftist ideology (lets not forget, that's why the aclu was founded to begin with) while not defending (or even attacking) other civil liberties is not something anyone should support.

The good things:

1. No religion in schools. - only Christianity, if other religion then no problem
2. No religion in government. - only Christianity, others are fine
3. Limit government surveillance powers. - good
4. Against indefinite detention. - good
5. Against torture. - good or bad defending on how you define it
6. Prevent discrimination based on religion/gender/sexual orientation/etc. - bs selective action against conservatives to support liberal causes
7. Protecting abortion rights. - obviously depends on your personal point of view, I agree with aclu on this
8. Protecting freedom of speech . - only when that speech is lefty approved, otherwise, rarely
9. Restricting civil forfeiture. - good
10. Reigning in abusive police. - mostly bs, they further the lefty narrative
11. Ending the war on drugs.
12. etc, etc, etc. - usually bad stuff

Bad things:

1. They filed a lawsuit against the BSA that I disagree with.
2. Apparently not suing for gun rights is a bad thing.

Feel free to fill in more things (good or bad!), but I imagine the vast majority of people on here agree with the ACLU on the vast majority of things they are involved with.

I went ahead and added comments on the items you listed. Glad we're in agreement though, they generally support left wing causes, but non-left-wingers have to acknowledge that occasionally the aclu also takes on good causes.

 

[fskimospy]

Your comments are ridiculous, right wing hyperbole.

1. Baseless statement. The ACLU is against state sponsorship of all religions, but since Christianity is the religion that does this overwhelmingly in the US, that's the one that shows up the most. If you believe otherwise, please show examples of state sponsorship of other religions in schools that you think the ACLU should be fighting against and does not.

2. Baseless statement. If you believe otherwise, please show examples.

5. No, an absolute good.

6. Baseless statement. If you believe otherwise please show examples.

8. Baseless, ridiculous statement. The ACLU has become famous for defending the rights of ultra-right organizations like the KKK to speak however they want.

You're letting your predetermined bias color your perception of them. Even when engaging in extremely biased thinking I happen to notice that you view about half of the things I mentioned as good. Does that tell you something?

 

[piasabird]

ACLU like filming police but doesn't like the police using a License Plate Scanner to track people driving around your Hood.

 

[piasabird]

Beware because in some states filming both pictures and sounds is considered wire tapping.

 

[norseamd]

8. Baseless, ridiculous statement. The ACLU has become famous for defending the rights of ultra-right organizations like the KKK to speak however they want.

This is true.

 

[PokerGuy]

You're letting your predetermined bias color your perception of them.

Oh good, glad you're not letting your bias color your perception of them. Nope, only others have biases that get in the way, never you Typical.

Even when engaging in extremely biased thinking I happen to notice that you view about half of the things I mentioned as good. Does that tell you something?

Classic logic fail. You listed broad categories, some of which I think are good. Most of their activity is focused in the bad categories (the ones I would define as bad), pushing the lefty agenda. Counting the categories doesn't tell you anything about whether they are good or bad, you have to look at the totality of their activities, which is largely bad. If the aclu disappeared tomorrow on the whole it would be a net positive.

 

[PokerGuy]

8. Baseless, ridiculous statement. The ACLU has become famous for defending the rights of ultra-right organizations like the KKK to speak however they want.

Just because they occasionally also do the right thing doesn't mean they are good on the whole. I already agreed that occasionally they do the right thing.

 

[nickqt]

ACLU like filming police but doesn't like the police using a License Plate Scanner to track people driving around your Hood.

Yes.

The ACLU isn't trying to defend the government against the citizens.

Nothing gets by you!

 

[fskimospy]

Just because they occasionally also do the right thing doesn't mean they are good on the whole. I already agreed that occasionally they do the right thing.

This is what you don't understand: the right thing is the right thing regardless of who they are defending. It's just as right to defend a gay pride parade as it is to defend the Westboro Baptist Church.

Once you stop trying to look at the ACLU by which side of the political spectrum you think they support and actually look at the actions and results you'll come to agree with me I'd bet.

 

[fskimospy]

ACLU like filming police but doesn't like the police using a License Plate Scanner to track people driving around your Hood.

Yes, because recording the actions of government agents is a positive thing for individual liberty as it limits police abuses. The police engaging in blanket scanning of everyone's vehicle is a negative thing for individual liberty.

How hard is that to grasp?

 

[fskimospy]

Classic logic fail. You listed broad categories, some of which I think are good. Most of their activity is focused in the bad categories (the ones I would define as bad), pushing the lefty agenda. Counting the categories doesn't tell you anything about whether they are good or bad, you have to look at the totality of their activities, which is largely bad. If the aclu disappeared tomorrow on the whole it would be a net positive.

Most of their activity is focused in the 'bad' categories? Even your 'bad' categories didn't make any sense. Keeping religion out of schools is a positive thing regardless of what religion is being kept out. Same with religion in government. Even if you (baselessly) believe that Christianity is somehow being discriminated against, keeping it out of government is still a plus.

I was trying to be charitable. In reality you agreed with basically every one of those categories, you just added in right wing victimhood.

 

[PokerGuy]

This is what you don't understand: the right thing is the right thing regardless of who they are defending.

That's assuming everyone can agree on what "the right thing" is. Obviously, you are going to have a vastly different idea of what "the right thing" is compared to a normal person.

Once you stop trying to look at the ACLU by which side of the political spectrum you think they support and actually look at the actions and results you'll come to agree with me I'd bet.

Nope, not unless they radically change what they do.

Again, you're working on the implicit assumption that there's only one definition (yours obviously!) of what "the right thing" is. As an example, if they fight to force schools to allow boys into girls bathrooms and vice versa because otherwise it would hurt some nutjobs feelings, then not only are they not pushing "the right thing", they are actively hurting the country. Why would anyone want to support that?