Acrylamide

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,835
8,302
136
Was at most dimly aware of this, I've seen the term but never researched it. A comment to current NY Times article on sourdough baking got me curious.

This is toxic, can be carcinogenic. So, to be avoided, obviously.

Well, poked a bit and this to-me very informative page explains a whole lot. Very interesting is the comment down in the page that the darker coffee roasts have less of this. Counter intuitive!


Broader picture:

 

Torn Mind

Lifer
Nov 25, 2012
11,782
2,685
136
Avoiding fried foods might have been why Nathan Pritikin did die with no plaque or cardiovascular issues. However, since he adopted an extreme diet with numerous confounding variables adjusted, it cannot be certain.

I don't think I have eaten fried foods in months except for eggs, and very rarely for years. Used to eat fried foods fairly frequently.

As most meats are fried with breading or a starch, it could be that it is the acrylamide from the starch being fried being part of why such foods have unhealthy results.

A lot of the authorities send mixed messages, probably to protect the food industry. If people stop eating cakes, fried chicken, French fries, that's lost economic activity and tax revenue.
 

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
57,656
7,887
126
Coffee drinkers live longer...


Also everything is bad for you. We adapted to an environment that was, and continues to try to kill us. Everything that's "good" for us, is also bad. We adapted to tolerate those compounds, and they may be harmful to other creatures that haven't adapted. "Good" is conditional. So... Don't eat mercury, open the garage when you run the car, and don't worry about trace elements you really have no control over.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,835
8,302
136
I've cut back on coffee in recent years, not really by intention. It's just that I have a sense about coffee. I feel saturated at times, I don't want any more. Most recently, I most often don't finish my largish cup (11 fluid ounces of fresh ground, fresh brewed organic dark roast). I usually leave 1-3 oz. in the cup, again, not by intention, it just happens that way.

I probably get most of my water from my home brewed coffee. I never duck into a commercial establishment for takeout coffee.

Info linked in the OP IIRC says that instant has double the amount of acrylamide as fresh brewed, FYI. Also, as stated in OP, the darker the roast the less acrylamide, a real eyebrow raiser.

I don't eat French fries any more. Reason being I rarely eat out and I stopped making them in my kitchen. I do bake a fair amount and undoubtedly have been unwittingly creating and eating acrylamide by virtue of that. I toast a bit, not real dark.
 

Torn Mind

Lifer
Nov 25, 2012
11,782
2,685
136
Coffee drinkers live longer...


Also everything is bad for you. We adapted to an environment that was, and continues to try to kill us. Everything that's "good" for us, is also bad. We adapted to tolerate those compounds, and they may be harmful to other creatures that haven't adapted. "Good" is conditional. So... Don't eat mercury, open the garage when you run the car, and don't worry about trace elements you really have no control over.
If someone goes mostly low sugar, low starch, and occasionally gets some coffee, it's probably an ok dose.

I doubt there will be any funding to study whether it's the acrylamide itself, the starch itself, or an interaction between the two that causes harmful effects. For example, measuring the effects of someone who eats only McDonalds fries versus those who eat "keto burgers".

We have evolved to like certain things because it ensured survival "back then". A little burn flavor means the food, usually meat, is sterile and won't result in parasites like worms screwing you over. While the starch-based agriculture is more recent, enough time for certain populations to "like" the smell of toasted bread also could have developed for similar reasons. But high temps on meat also creates nasty compounds. With meat, you get heterocyclic amines. Cooking meat like beef to well done, will result in greater concentrations of heterocyclic amines.

In the wild days, it is likely that humans behave like other carnivores and target organ meats like liver, kidney, etc. Due to scarcity, it is unlikely they could just dispose of a compromised liver even after visual inspection. So they probably would have had to subject it to fire to kill the little nasties.

For acrylamide, it's already near condemnation. Workplace exposure is poisonous, mice can't handle it. It may be a mere bystander, but then that means the starch or sugar it is usually present with is the actual culprit.

Evolution is not "absolute perfection", but rather a response to environmental pressure. There are tradeoffs for obtaining certain traits. The overall tradeoff for most of humanity is that other organisms were more acutely damaging to survival than the formation of poisons through cooking to kill said organisms. (No, they teach tradeoffs in biology. That's something only economics students get routine exposure to as a concept)
 
Jul 27, 2020
17,936
11,699
116
I don't eat French fries any more. Reason being I rarely eat out and I stopped making them in my kitchen.
I can attest that French fries are pretty toxic. For a month, I ate a full plate of french fries with a glass of mango milkshake regularly. Reason? I was lazy and getting these from the local restaurant was pretty economical. Plus, they were yummy as heck!

Unfortunately or fortunately, something like 35 or 40 days later, I went to a doc for some food poisoning related symptoms. He asked if I felt any tingling anywhere. I said I felt that a lot sometimes in the tips of my fingers. He prescribed the hbA1C test and it came back around 5.6 which was borderline. After that, it just got worse and worse. Had to stop eating bread and coffee coz both combined would result in pretty hurtful acidic urine. While all this was going on, I made the mistake of eating mushrooms coz they "normally" lower blood sugar pretty quickly due to D-Ribose sugar in them. That sugar is actually in excess in the blood in diabetic patients so extra dose of that from the mushrooms led to a pretty serious case of nephritis. I lost sleep, felt phosphorous trying to escape my skin all the time (it's like itching but much worse and less tolerable) and my face and legs and feet swelled up. Went on a 6 day fruit juice diet, drinking mostly grapefruit juice and watermelon juice. That helped a lot and brought down the swelling. Spent some more time (maybe a year) on restrictive diets trying to control my blood glucose and using berberine for large meals. Finally had it in 2021 and went on a less than 1200 calories "rice and fruit only" diet for 15 days and my diabetes has been in remission since.

All this could have been avoided by not eating french fries straight for a month. Definitely at the very top of my dumbest, most expensive mistakes.
 
Reactions: Muse

Torn Mind

Lifer
Nov 25, 2012
11,782
2,685
136
The studies in mice and rats are fairly compelling, such as these

However, the counterpoint, even if influence by food industries, is not completely irrelevant. Perhaps certain foods contain chemicals that negate or reduce the effects of acrylamide.
This following study does betray a degree of bias and influence, but some data and inferences can be accepted
Biased actions include the selection of the study method itself, choosing liver cancer over colon cancer, using the Japanese population that reports not eating much potatoes or biscuits, and the ridiculously overstretched conclusion "In conclusion, the results of the present study indicate that there was no association between dietary intake of acrylamide and risk of liver cancer. Further studies with biomarkers of the internal dose of acrylamide are needed to investigate the carcinogenicity of acrylamide in humans."

 
Jul 27, 2020
17,936
11,699
116
if coffee causes cancer
Caffeine is actually supposed to shorten telomeres leading to the end of cell division which is the opposite of what cancer is (cells keep dividing, possibly coz the telomeres don't shorten due to some mutation).

So drinking coffee a lot would stop most senile cells from living long enough to become cancerous.
 
Reactions: pcgeek11

IGBT

Lifer
Jul 16, 2001
17,956
137
106
I recall Acrylamide scare stores 20 years ago. There seems to be an ebb and flow of scare stories about bread baking / toast and similar over the years.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
30,967
8,688
136
Coffee drinkers live longer...


Also everything is bad for you. We adapted to an environment that was, and continues to try to kill us. Everything that's "good" for us, is also bad. We adapted to tolerate those compounds, and they may be harmful to other creatures that haven't adapted. "Good" is conditional. So... Don't eat mercury, open the garage when you run the car, and don't worry about trace elements you really have no control over.
Yup. We are all absolutly going to die of something! Might as well enjoy the ride whilst we are here!
 
Reactions: pcgeek11

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,273
8,198
136
Edit: Seriously though, if coffee causes cancer then at least I have the benefit of knowing what I'm going to die from.

What most annoys me about all my health issues, is that almost all of them seem to get the descriptor 'idiopathic'.

When I look them up they all say things like "How to prevent this condition: This is not known as the cause is unknown" or "the cause is believed to be an unknown genetic susceptibility together with an unidentified environmental trigger".

Which means I have no idea what it is I need to regret having done.
 
Reactions: GodisanAtheist

Torn Mind

Lifer
Nov 25, 2012
11,782
2,685
136

Formation[edit]​

Early studies showed that glycidamides can be synthesized by the action of hydrogen peroxide on acrylonitrile derivatives.[8]

More relevant to health concerns, glycidamide forms from acrylamide. The acrylamide is generated by pyrolysis of proteins rich in asparagine. Oxidation of acrylamide, catalyzed by the enzyme cytochrome P450 2E1 (CYP2E1) gives glycidamide.[9]Saturated fatty acids protect the acrylamide from forming glycidamide. When during food processing, oil is used that contains unsaturated fatty acids, the amount of glycidamide formed is much higher.[10]


Well, that might be part of the puzzle. Trans fats themselves are bad, and you make more glycidamide with it. So, comes forth both plaque and polyps. A fact like this is merely quietly put on Wikipedia, but not emphasized or broadcast heavily, mainly because it would make Ancel Keys and his intellectual descendants look bad.

RE: mice and rats. Really, it's all about framing when it comes to their similarities or differences being emphasized when compared to humans. As fried food is one, a foundation of commercial activity all over the world, and two, desirable to eat by the buyers in the market, ending its existence would basically crush the food and restaurant industry. Hence, the many attempts to "undiscover" acrylamide as a smoking gun and make the "science" undetermined. If mice were human, it's safe to say domestic violence in male-male relationships is biologically based.
 
Reactions: igor_kavinski

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,273
8,198
136

Well, that might be part of the puzzle. Trans fats themselves are bad, and you make more glycidamide with it. So, comes forth both plaque and polyps. A fact like this is merely quietly put on Wikipedia, but not emphasized or broadcast heavily, mainly because it would make Ancel Keys and his intellectual descendants look bad.

RE: mice and rats. Really, it's all about framing when it comes to their similarities or differences being emphasized when compared to humans. As fried food is one, a foundation of commercial activity all over the world, and two, desirable to eat by the buyers in the market, ending its existence would basically crush the food and restaurant industry. Hence, the many attempts to "undiscover" acrylamide as a smoking gun and make the "science" undetermined. If mice were human, it's safe to say domestic violence in male-male relationships is biologically based.


I have no idea about most of what you say (or about this specific topic at all), but I do suspect the bit I bolded is a general truth - which questions scientists choose to ask, and what topics they decide to study, what evidence they actively look for, is going to be influenced by political and financial considerations.

Hence "science" is less objective and apolitical than people often claim.
 

Torn Mind

Lifer
Nov 25, 2012
11,782
2,685
136
I have no idea about most of what you say (or about this specific topic at all), but I do suspect the bit I bolded is a general truth - which questions scientists choose to ask, and what topics they decide to study, what evidence they actively look for, is going to be influenced by political and financial considerations.

Hence "science" is less objective and apolitical than people often claim.
After unintentionally being "shoved" into studying a field I had no intention of doing(lawsuits in which no lawyer helped), I have developed a new way of looking at things that I did not have before. I have now realized that science itself is something that should be distinguished from scientists.

Science might be best described as the "the body of settled facts resulting from observing and validating said facts". If someone sees, hears, touches, smells, tastes, or otherwise perceives something indirectly through these means, that's is enough to satisfy the first step of observation. Then this information is validated through replicating studies that identify the mechanism at work.

Scientists, on the other hand, while PART of their job is to add to the body of settled facts described above, they have another job, which is to BLOCK the addition of facts to the body of settled facts. "Pre-study Fact arbitrator and judgment maker". Meaning, they not only do science, they also can SHUT DOWN science depending on "interests" by voluntarily not doing scientific work or interpreting data in a manner to deprive funding of said work. Interests can be external or internal. External such as needing funding and catering to the funder. Internal can include satisfying their own inflated egos as the "smartest people". A simple scientist's opinion can prevent "research on the merits"(science itself) before it can ever begin, a common one being "it's all in your head". It's probably the most unscientific action ever, to dismiss observations without experimenting or study, but it's something scientists do all the time. In essence, the scientists can say "it's not worth scientific study because the observation is BS because I already think so".

The reality is that science exists because humans are inherently prone to fudging results in their favor. What science does is put a degree of limitation on how much a human can meddle with certain observable facts, and a paper trail.

Thus, science itself is a collection of actions, and all voluntary actions. As such, scientific knowledge is always going to be incomplete. Paper and brains can get destroyed, and all content contained within them.
As as example, there's probably many people who performed preliminary research for unprofitable drugs. They will die with knowledge of unprofitable drug, and the early promising results whose study got ended because of the chemicals could not be patented. If someone doesn't want to observe, can't afford to observe, or is prevented from observing, then there is basically "science denied".

One of science's hidden requirements is funding, as it is mental labor and requires special tools. No money, no science. Some common individual may observe something, but to get it to a pro who can the study it somehow to "validate" the observation scientifically is normally not done. Either you have to become one yourself or you have just enough standing and ability to make contact with a sympathetic ear.

This is an example of the "specimen coming to the scientist": https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2023/09/17/fatigue-cfs-longcovid-mitochondria/
The press obviously dress the circumstances in a positive light, but I look at it much more coldly. This science could have very well not existed. One, the woman could have died from cancer thus not be studied. Two, she possess advocacy skills(lawyer) that the general populace generally doesn't have. Three, she suffered for decades and could have simply given up.
Actually, just now trying to google search someone I recall changing careers to become a scientist because of child's food allergy; I cannot yet identify who this person was, but she was of an older generation and spoke on a Youtube video. While search, I now notice an apparent trend of a woman with legal experience being the trigger of having science done to investigate negative effects. Erin Brokovich was a paralegal. There are others who start advocacy groups because of having to deal with food allergies. One can say "Hell hath no fury like a mother scorned", well advocating against Big Food or Big Science is a modern manifestation of that.

Some premises though, the scientists have continued to shutdown the counterargument in a hardline manner, such as IgG testing of allergies.
This was back in 2002 when the writer tried to investigate and was met with rebuffs by the expert.
 
Jul 27, 2020
17,936
11,699
116
@Torn Mind

Interesting "legal" question: Should the HeLa cells be destroyed because they were obtained and harvested illegally without permission?

 

IGBT

Lifer
Jul 16, 2001
17,956
137
106
After unintentionally being "shoved" into studying a field I had no intention of doing(lawsuits in which no lawyer helped), I have developed a new way of looking at things that I did not have before. I have now realized that science itself is something that should be distinguished from scientists.

Science might be best described as the "the body of settled facts resulting from observing and validating said facts". If someone sees, hears, touches, smells, tastes, or otherwise perceives something indirectly through these means, that's is enough to satisfy the first step of observation. Then this information is validated through replicating studies that identify the mechanism at work.

Scientists, on the other hand, while PART of their job is to add to the body of settled facts described above, they have another job, which is to BLOCK the addition of facts to the body of settled facts. "Pre-study Fact arbitrator and judgment maker". Meaning, they not only do science, they also can SHUT DOWN science depending on "interests" by voluntarily not doing scientific work or interpreting data in a manner to deprive funding of said work. Interests can be external or internal. External such as needing funding and catering to the funder. Internal can include satisfying their own inflated egos as the "smartest people". A simple scientist's opinion can prevent "research on the merits"(science itself) before it can ever begin, a common one being "it's all in your head". It's probably the most unscientific action ever, to dismiss observations without experimenting or study, but it's something scientists do all the time. In essence, the scientists can say "it's not worth scientific study because the observation is BS because I already think so".

The reality is that science exists because humans are inherently prone to fudging results in their favor. What science does is put a degree of limitation on how much a human can meddle with certain observable facts, and a paper trail.

Thus, science itself is a collection of actions, and all voluntary actions. As such, scientific knowledge is always going to be incomplete. Paper and brains can get destroyed, and all content contained within them.
As as example, there's probably many people who performed preliminary research for unprofitable drugs. They will die with knowledge of unprofitable drug, and the early promising results whose study got ended because of the chemicals could not be patented. If someone doesn't want to observe, can't afford to observe, or is prevented from observing, then there is basically "science denied".

One of science's hidden requirements is funding, as it is mental labor and requires special tools. No money, no science. Some common individual may observe something, but to get it to a pro who can the study it somehow to "validate" the observation scientifically is normally not done. Either you have to become one yourself or you have just enough standing and ability to make contact with a sympathetic ear.

This is an example of the "specimen coming to the scientist": https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2023/09/17/fatigue-cfs-longcovid-mitochondria/
The press obviously dress the circumstances in a positive light, but I look at it much more coldly. This science could have very well not existed. One, the woman could have died from cancer thus not be studied. Two, she possess advocacy skills(lawyer) that the general populace generally doesn't have. Three, she suffered for decades and could have simply given up.
Actually, just now trying to google search someone I recall changing careers to become a scientist because of child's food allergy; I cannot yet identify who this person was, but she was of an older generation and spoke on a Youtube video. While search, I now notice an apparent trend of a woman with legal experience being the trigger of having science done to investigate negative effects. Erin Brokovich was a paralegal. There are others who start advocacy groups because of having to deal with food allergies. One can say "Hell hath no fury like a mother scorned", well advocating against Big Food or Big Science is a modern manifestation of that.

Some premises though, the scientists have continued to shutdown the counterargument in a hardline manner, such as IgG testing of allergies.
This was back in 2002 when the writer tried to investigate and was met with rebuffs by the expert.
Wonderful and thoughtful insight and analysis..(Washington Post has a "pay wall")..
 
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |