[Action RPG] Path of Exile

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Dumac

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 2005
9,391
1
0
To witches: are you guys stacking health, health/es, es with CI?

I'm nervous to stack simply ES and go CI with the recent nerf to ES, but I'm worried about having too little HP for chaos damage in merc.
 

Udgnim

Diamond Member
Apr 16, 2008
3,665
112
106
To witches: are you guys stacking health, health/es, es with CI?

I'm nervous to stack simply ES and go CI with the recent nerf to ES, but I'm worried about having too little HP for chaos damage in merc.

imo you either stack HP or ES and eventually get CI

doing a combination of ES & HP will make playing against Chaos damage monsters a very scary proposition

stacking HP is the easier way to go

ES + CI can work but it requires high ES gear which is obtained either through lots of luck or by buying high ES upgrades
 

Dumac

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 2005
9,391
1
0
Anyone else feel like they hit a wall on Act 3 Cruel? The difficulty spikes up tremendously. Those damn vipers...I don't even want to try the sewers. Docks aren't too bad but...

I don't know if I should just farm Docks first or what.

Also, whats a good level to move onto Merc?
 

JamesV

Platinum Member
Jul 9, 2011
2,002
2
76
To witches: are you guys stacking health, health/es, es with CI?

I'm nervous to stack simply ES and go CI with the recent nerf to ES, but I'm worried about having too little HP for chaos damage in merc.

In merciless @ 71 now, running maps.

I'm just stacking health and armor. I'm going to get hit, and I don't have godly ES gear to bring me around 5k ES and 1k+ a sec recharge, so health/armor keeps me alive. Would love to take CI and free up those 15 or so life nodes, but not until I have the gear to support it.

If you take CI, you are immune to chaos damage btw.

Dumac said:
Anyone else feel like they hit a wall on Act 3 Cruel? The difficulty spikes up tremendously. Those damn vipers...I don't even want to try the sewers. Docks aren't too bad but...

I don't know if I should just farm Docks first or what.

I had a hard time with the sewers, but after that, except for the Barracks, it was pretty easy. Those poison guys in the sewers, and the flickerstrike guys, along with a ton of jumpers...ugh. And while I can facetank 5 lightning mages in Battlefront, I get chain stunned/killed easy by a few of the same mobs in the Barracks for some reason.

I'm actually farming the Church Dungeon from act 2 atm. It's lvl 60, so maps can drop, and I still get xp there, and the mobs are slow and easy. In A3, I usually do Battlefront, Docks, and Lunaris/Solaris (sp?).
 

Lorthreth

Member
Aug 14, 2004
120
0
86
paint.ruokamo.eu
As a summoner witch 66 merciless, I have mostly ES. 1300 ES, 1700 with buff and 900 HP.
I die quite quick if I let an enemy get near me. But 8 zombies with 7000 HP each and 2 spectres provide a nice guard. And if there's no corpses I just start spamming nonstop 12 skeletons 3000 HP each. With buffs over 120 mana regen/s

I can survive as long as my zombies don't get killed, most mobs can't kill all of them at once but bosses and uniques can do that and those I have to party through.

P.S. Man... who has 5000 ES and I waaaant summoner uniques >_>
 

Rhezuss

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2006
4,118
34
91
Damn i'm starting Act 2 right now with my Templar level 16 and those freaking monkeys are hard to beat and on top of that they swarm you...

I have really bad luck with drops since i'm lvl 10, only bad stuff drops that I don't care like wands, staves, velvet armor...

I'm currently using 1H+Shield but have some nice rare 2H weapons in my stash. I think it's time to let out the big guns!
 

Chiropteran

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2003
9,811
110
106
Well, finally beat cruel oak on my hardcore blood-magic summoner witch. PITA of a fight, his ridiculous leap attack does about half my hp in a hit and he seems to spam it constantly as long as there are other targets to hit, and since i'm a summoner and I need my pets, that is just about always. Well, I found out he is still limited by line of sight. Beat him through a long war of attrition by summoning skeletons while running around in circles around a wagon in his area. Took forever, but eventually he died. This was at level 51. Yes, it should have been able to kill him at 45 or so, but being a caster summoner sucks vs oak apparently.

Anyway, after finally beating oak it was like the floodgates were lifted. Cleared pyramid with little trouble, killed vaal first attempt without even having any close calls, very easy fight as a summoner. Went straight into Act 3 and cleared crematorium in about an hour and sent piety running.

So, I had some doubts about my build, but they are mostly gone. Apparently oak is just a bitch of an enemy and other than him I can handle anything else just fine.

To respond to the above question re: hp or energy shield, I mostly wear armor/es gear, and my current balance is about 2200 hp and 300 es. I run blood magic and % based health regen nodes, so I need to stack lots of hp, and I also use iron will so I need Str to increase my spell damage, which in turn adds further hp. I like the extra buffer offered by the energy shield I have, but I don't think I'd sacrifice anything to buff it further at this time.

As far as DPS stats, mostly I rely on skeleton/minion life/minion damage/spell totem and my zombie/added fire damage/monsters flee gems, but I also use Fireball & Arc with faster casting, increased lightning damage, iron will. DPS on the character sheet with my damage gear is 790 for fireball and 400~ for arc, but those numbers are always deceptive. Lately I've been playing it safe and running with 75% resists across the board, this puts my damage down about 25% lower.
 

clok1966

Golden Member
Jul 6, 2004
1,395
13
76
Damn i'm starting Act 2 right now with my Templar level 16 and those freaking monkeys are hard to beat and on top of that they swarm you...

I have really bad luck with drops since i'm lvl 10, only bad stuff drops that I don't care like wands, staves, velvet armor...

I'm currently using 1H+Shield but have some nice rare 2H weapons in my stash. I think it's time to let out the big guns!

Brutal with melee.. i keep ICE nova (personal favorite) or some other AOE spell for those swarms of ankle biters. of course depending on your melee you have AOE swings too. SO far a Shadow with bowosion arrow and fire trap... I think i have my favorite combo (depending allot on build). I love my poison Arrow.. so much I know its going to get nerfed..
 

Dumac

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 2005
9,391
1
0
Well, finally beat cruel oak on my hardcore blood-magic summoner witch. PITA of a fight, his ridiculous leap attack does about half my hp in a hit and he seems to spam it constantly as long as there are other targets to hit, and since i'm a summoner and I need my pets, that is just about always. Well, I found out he is still limited by line of sight. Beat him through a long war of attrition by summoning skeletons while running around in circles around a wagon in his area. Took forever, but eventually he died. This was at level 51. Yes, it should have been able to kill him at 45 or so, but being a caster summoner sucks vs oak apparently.

Anyway, after finally beating oak it was like the floodgates were lifted. Cleared pyramid with little trouble, killed vaal first attempt without even having any close calls, very easy fight as a summoner. Went straight into Act 3 and cleared crematorium in about an hour and sent piety running.

So, I had some doubts about my build, but they are mostly gone. Apparently oak is just a bitch of an enemy and other than him I can handle anything else just fine.

To respond to the above question re: hp or energy shield, I mostly wear armor/es gear, and my current balance is about 2200 hp and 300 es. I run blood magic and % based health regen nodes, so I need to stack lots of hp, and I also use iron will so I need Str to increase my spell damage, which in turn adds further hp. I like the extra buffer offered by the energy shield I have, but I don't think I'd sacrifice anything to buff it further at this time.

As far as DPS stats, mostly I rely on skeleton/minion life/minion damage/spell totem and my zombie/added fire damage/monsters flee gems, but I also use Fireball & Arc with faster casting, increased lightning damage, iron will. DPS on the character sheet with my damage gear is 790 for fireball and 400~ for arc, but those numbers are always deceptive. Lately I've been playing it safe and running with 75% resists across the board, this puts my damage down about 25% lower.

Yeah, Oak was a giant PITA for my summoner on cruel (SC). Haven't gotten to merc yet.

Also, your build sounds cool. I didn't know iron grip worked for projectile spells as well.
 

Rhezuss

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2006
4,118
34
91
Brutal with melee.. i keep ICE nova (personal favorite) or some other AOE spell for those swarms of ankle biters. of course depending on your melee you have AOE swings too. SO far a Shadow with bowosion arrow and fire trap... I think i have my favorite combo (depending allot on build). I love my poison Arrow.. so much I know its going to get nerfed..

Found the problem: My 1H sword is shitty. I switched to a 2H rare sword and my DPS tripled. I Infernal Blowed those monkeys to hell! The blood and limbs splatter was beautiful!
 

JamesV

Platinum Member
Jul 9, 2011
2,002
2
76
A real easy way to beat Oak, and Kole for that matter, is trap + totem.

For Oak, get behind the tent on the left, drop a trap in Oak's LOS to the right of the tent, and then drop a totem on it. While he jumps onto it, move around the tent in the opposite direction, and repeat. Took a little bit, but I easily soloed him without getting hit by his jump more than once.

Had a strange experience last night. Had this rare map with 'patches of fire/no health or mana regen/2 bosses/bosses do extra damage', and opened up the map by the party options (S). Had a bunch of people join my game, but they were in a different map than mine. While I was in my Dunes map, they were in a Dried something map.

Then I joined other map games, and had no portals to the map everyone was on... I don't get it.
 

CottonRabbit

Golden Member
Apr 28, 2005
1,026
0
0
A real easy way to beat Oak, and Kole for that matter, is trap + totem.

For Oak, get behind the tent on the left, drop a trap in Oak's LOS to the right of the tent, and then drop a totem on it. While he jumps onto it, move around the tent in the opposite direction, and repeat. Took a little bit, but I easily soloed him without getting hit by his jump more than once.

Had a strange experience last night. Had this rare map with 'patches of fire/no health or mana regen/2 bosses/bosses do extra damage', and opened up the map by the party options (S). Had a bunch of people join my game, but they were in a different map than mine. While I was in my Dunes map, they were in a Dried something map.

Then I joined other map games, and had no portals to the map everyone was on... I don't get it.

Maps only open 6 single use portals. Once they are used up, no one can go in. Be careful about who you invite to your map to and always make a new instance (ctrl+click waypoint) before opening a map.
 

Chiropteran

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2003
9,811
110
106
Yeah, Oak was a giant PITA for my summoner on cruel (SC). Haven't gotten to merc yet.

Also, your build sounds cool. I didn't know iron grip worked for projectile spells as well.

Iron Will rather than Iron Grip. Same concept, but Iron Will is for spells while Iron Grip works on bows, and I don't think there is a keystone for Iron Will, only support gem.

It's actually terrible at first, as it reduces your cast speed dramatically and is actually a DPS loss, but as you level it up the reduced cast speed gets less and less. At my level it's about a 25% net buff to damage to use it, and it'll just get better as I raise my strength and level the Iron Will gem.

I think eventually I will drop the whole summoning aspect and play as a tanky nuker, I feel that I am spreading my passive skills a bit too thin, but probably not for another 10-15 levels.
 
Nov 7, 2000
16,403
3
81
Iron Will rather than Iron Grip. Same concept, but Iron Will is for spells while Iron Grip works on bows, and I don't think there is a keystone for Iron Will, only support gem.

It's actually terrible at first, as it reduces your cast speed dramatically and is actually a DPS loss, but as you level it up the reduced cast speed gets less and less. At my level it's about a 25% net buff to damage to use it, and it'll just get better as I raise my strength and level the Iron Will gem.

I think eventually I will drop the whole summoning aspect and play as a tanky nuker, I feel that I am spreading my passive skills a bit too thin, but probably not for another 10-15 levels.
Good to know... i just realized last night I had a +18% Iron Will drop a while ago and I had it tucked away in the stash. Didnt bother to use it since my DPS calculations all went down.

I may plug it in now to get some levels...
 

Chiropteran

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2003
9,811
110
106
Good to know... i just realized last night I had a +18% Iron Will drop a while ago and I had it tucked away in the stash. Didnt bother to use it since my DPS calculations all went down.

I may plug it in now to get some levels...

If you have a build with any significant amount of strength, it should offer a huge damage buff at the higher levels.

I'm at 356 Strength w/ current gear. My (0% quality) Iron Will gem is at level 12, which is 8% reduced cast speed.

Without Iron Will, Fireball is 494 dps, with Iron Will: 684 dps. 37% increase.

Best part is, Iron Will is a 0 mana cost increase support gem, so this is like a free increase in damage. Actually, it's even better than that. The reduced cast time means I am actually casting fewer fireballs and doing more damage, effectively reducing mana spent.

With 18% quality, your gem is even better. It gets a flat 13.5% spell damage increase above and beyond the strength bonuses.
 

JamesV

Platinum Member
Jul 9, 2011
2,002
2
76
If you have a build with any significant amount of strength, it should offer a huge damage buff at the higher levels.

I'm at 356 Strength w/ current gear. My (0% quality) Iron Will gem is at level 12, which is 8% reduced cast speed.

Without Iron Will, Fireball is 494 dps, with Iron Will: 684 dps. 37% increase.

Best part is, Iron Will is a 0 mana cost increase support gem, so this is like a free increase in damage. Actually, it's even better than that. The reduced cast time means I am actually casting fewer fireballs and doing more damage, effectively reducing mana spent.

With 18% quality, your gem is even better. It gets a flat 13.5% spell damage increase above and beyond the strength bonuses.

Imo, Fire Penetration is better than Iron Will.

Tried both out pretty extensively, and while lvl 16 Iron Will shows a bigger dps increase on the character sheet, with Fire Penetration I kill alot faster.

It is especially noticeable with my Firestorm-Spell Totem-Elemental Proliferation-Fire Penetration. I've been farming Battlefront in A3 merciless lately, and one of those totems can burn down a huge group of enemies pretty quickly. I am running 160% or so burning damage though, which helps (Searing Touch/etc), and I use Frost Wall (mobs come to bottleneck, seal it off with Frost Wall and place the totem behind it; refresh Frost Wall as needed).

Sitting at 1568 dps Fireball now, with spell/fire damage ONLY on my staff. Once I find enough good gear with added spell damage(rings/etc), I'll be able to up that dps considerably.
 

Dumac

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 2005
9,391
1
0
Iron Will rather than Iron Grip. Same concept, but Iron Will is for spells while Iron Grip works on bows, and I don't think there is a keystone for Iron Will, only support gem.

It's actually terrible at first, as it reduces your cast speed dramatically and is actually a DPS loss, but as you level it up the reduced cast speed gets less and less. At my level it's about a 25% net buff to damage to use it, and it'll just get better as I raise my strength and level the Iron Will gem.

I think eventually I will drop the whole summoning aspect and play as a tanky nuker, I feel that I am spreading my passive skills a bit too thin, but probably not for another 10-15 levels.

If you have a build with any significant amount of strength, it should offer a huge damage buff at the higher levels.

I'm at 356 Strength w/ current gear. My (0% quality) Iron Will gem is at level 12, which is 8% reduced cast speed.

Without Iron Will, Fireball is 494 dps, with Iron Will: 684 dps. 37% increase.

Best part is, Iron Will is a 0 mana cost increase support gem, so this is like a free increase in damage. Actually, it's even better than that. The reduced cast time means I am actually casting fewer fireballs and doing more damage, effectively reducing mana spent.

With 18% quality, your gem is even better. It gets a flat 13.5% spell damage increase above and beyond the strength bonuses.

Damn, interesting. Makes me want to start another witch, stack HP+STR, and just nuke the crap out of things. Iron Will is only a support gem though, so it would take up a slot on all my offensive spells.
 
Nov 7, 2000
16,403
3
81
If you have a build with any significant amount of strength, it should offer a huge damage buff at the higher levels.

I'm at 356 Strength w/ current gear. My (0% quality) Iron Will gem is at level 12, which is 8% reduced cast speed.

Without Iron Will, Fireball is 494 dps, with Iron Will: 684 dps. 37% increase.

Best part is, Iron Will is a 0 mana cost increase support gem, so this is like a free increase in damage. Actually, it's even better than that. The reduced cast time means I am actually casting fewer fireballs and doing more damage, effectively reducing mana spent.

With 18% quality, your gem is even better. It gets a flat 13.5% spell damage increase above and beyond the strength bonuses.
well im still very low level, ~35 so i dont have much to my build at all. and its my first char so im sort of all over the place. im sort of a summoner ice nova witch, either way not much strength in build at all
 
Mar 11, 2004
23,280
5,722
146
That is the kind of thinking that leads to World of Warcraft and D3 super-simplified skills and talents. The fact that it is hard to determine the "optimal" spec is seen as a plus by the fans, as it gives the game depth and rewards theory-crafting and experimentation.

Respec limits are related to that. If you can simple respec easily, then the rewards for finding a cool spec is less because anyone can easily copy you with little effort.

Sorry I disagree. Honestly, I think WoW has better gameplay than this game and I don't even like WoW. I honestly don't know how you can claim the gameplay is deeper here. Its different but its not really deep.

I could somewhat understand the complaints about the respecing in Diablo 3 as those were the actual skills, but here its all just passive and mostly stat buffs so I think that argument falls really flat. Even D3 I think that's way down on the list of problems with the game. Likewise here, this game has many bigger flaws which just makes this system even more baffling since that stuff is even more obvious and yet they act like the limited respecing and their system is some major features.

In my opinion, people arguing that this really adds complexity are just delusional. Instead of spending the time making the pointlessly complex thing they did here they could have actually made the gameplay itself deeper. It would be just as hard for the people that like figuring out the "optimal" way to go, and would make it a lot better for others.

That's why I said the whole genre is just mediocre and needs some overhaul of the base gameplay.
 
Nov 7, 2000
16,403
3
81
There is no point in comparing MMORPG gameplay from one of the biggest studios in the world to ARPG gameplay from a tiny indie studio. Completely different genres, to start with.

ARPG gameplay has never been deep, thats the genre. There is no value in critiquing PoE based on that.

As far as the SKILL system goes, I think WoW's work for WoWs and PoE's works for it. PoE designed the game to enable more potential builds for more classes and intend for people to roll new characters to try new builds. Leveling chars in PoE is not as intense as other games, which is why I think it works.

D3 skill system is shameful, I really cant think of much worse ways to do it.

MY ideal skill system would be, any class can use any skill or item, with bonuses or penalties based on the class. The proficiency with the skill or item type would increase the longer it was used, with no decay. So if you wanted to be a wand witch, can level that up all the way. Then if you decide you want to try a bow witch, instead of needing to roll a new char just start using a bow, and in the same amount of time the same char will just as adept.
 
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Chiropteran

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2003
9,811
110
106
Sorry I disagree. Honestly, I think WoW has better gameplay than this game and I don't even like WoW. I honestly don't know how you can claim the gameplay is deeper here. Its different but its not really deep.

I never meant the game-play was deep, I was talking about the passive & gem skill system. I understand you don't like some aspects of it, but that is all just opinion. You have yours, I have mine, we disagree.

Here is how I see things:

WoW or D3 style system-

Drawback: all characters of a given class are effectively the exact same, because any character can copy another characters build without any effort.

Drawback: the major build types can be easily and freely tested at will by anyone, and copied, as such the optimal build gets discovered very quickly and there is no reason for anyone to play any other build.

Drawback: your character will never be special or unique, as anyone can copy your build.

Advantage: if you don't want to spend much time playing the game, you can try all builds out quickly and with little effort, since respec is cheap or free.

Advantage: no other character will be special or unique, so you never have to worry about being inferior to anyone else. Everyone is a winner!

Drawback: since skills & spec is irrelevant, the only differentiation comes from gear. Endless grinding over and over to get that tiny stat upgrade, because there isn't anything else to do.

Drawback: since the developers only expect you to play through once as a given class, the XP treadmill is super long.

And from the point of view of Path of Exile-

Drawback: you need to re-roll to try a new spec

Advantage: players who want to copy your spec need to re-roll to do so

Advantage: some specs are enabled by unique items or rare skill gems, allowing new options to develop over time that didn't exist originally

Advantage: because full character re-rolls are a necessary reality, the game is designed with a short quick leveling curve, so you can reach endgame faster compared to a game designed to only be played once. Also, low level currency drops are still completely relevant in endgame, so time spent testing alts is never wasted time.

Eh, thats how I see things. I see a few minor advantages to having cheap/easy respec but overall I think the style of system used for Path of Exile is more fun, for me. If some other people prefer WoW or D3, more power to them.
 

Majes

Golden Member
Apr 8, 2008
1,164
148
106
Personally I think that it is shameful that Diablo 3 and PoE have such a lack of item diversity. I mean, the set items in Diablo 3 were untouchable for most of the population, and there aren't even any sets in PoE...

However, the orb system in PoE is actually fantastic. To combine currency with crafting was a brilliant decision by the developers. It truly adds a lot of depth, and a way to keep inflation slightly in check.

Also even though the endgame of both these releases sucks, PoE has its races. So far the races have been a fantastic addition for me and really extended my interest. I've been researching and practicing a game. This is a rare and treasured thing.
 

Chiropteran

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2003
9,811
110
106
Keep in mind PoE is unfinished, this is just open beta. Act 3 is incomplete, there will be more acts, more skills, and more items. The duelist area of the passive tree is supposed to be overhauled soon as well.

I'd like to see some unique sets myself, but I haven't heard anything about whether they are being considered.
 

Hacp

Lifer
Jun 8, 2005
13,923
2
81
Sorry I disagree. Honestly, I think WoW has better gameplay than this game and I don't even like WoW. I honestly don't know how you can claim the gameplay is deeper here. Its different but its not really deep.

I could somewhat understand the complaints about the respecing in Diablo 3 as those were the actual skills, but here its all just passive and mostly stat buffs so I think that argument falls really flat. Even D3 I think that's way down on the list of problems with the game. Likewise here, this game has many bigger flaws which just makes this system even more baffling since that stuff is even more obvious and yet they act like the limited respecing and their system is some major features.

In my opinion, people arguing that this really adds complexity are just delusional. Instead of spending the time making the pointlessly complex thing they did here they could have actually made the gameplay itself deeper. It would be just as hard for the people that like figuring out the "optimal" way to go, and would make it a lot better for others.

That's why I said the whole genre is just mediocre and needs some overhaul of the base gameplay.

I personally don't care about "deeper" gameplay. Most of those games end up with classes that the player plays based on a developer's vision, not based on the player's own vision.

That is why I love Path of Exile's passive tree. It is highly non-linear, which makes finding an optimal solution insanely difficult. The class system is ingenious as well and it is a throwback to the class system of Diablo 1, where classes were jack of all trades but master of few. Finally, the skill gems are awesome. It reminds me, again, of Diablo 1's skill books. This game is so much fun.

On a sad note, my lightning arrow templar died at level 21. He was in a 20 zone and owning mobs up with lightning arrow, until he met a lightning resist blink strike rare mob+champion group. I tried to open a TP but died before I could get in. Gonna reroll tonight.
 

Zeze

Lifer
Mar 4, 2011
11,395
1,180
126
Are people still playing this game?

I'm just curious because I feel like I've already moved on (excellent game, no fault, I just played it to death), and I don't know anyone playing them.

They said this game has a 10-year plan. I just don't see the game having that much longevity.
 
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