Active Shooting in San Bernardino, California

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Blanky

Platinum Member
Oct 18, 2014
2,457
12
46
There is a large amount of bullshit in this thread and most of it isn't based on stats. People don't like what Legendkiller is saying because it contradicts what they want to be true, but he is basing a lot on numbers. Here are some more for you:

1) A quarter of british muslims sympathize with the charlie hebdo attacks:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/rel...sympathise-with-Charlie-Hebdo-terrorists.html

2) Tens of millions of muslims have a favorable view on ISIS:
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...ant-muslim-populations-much-disdain-for-isis/

3) 20% of british muslims sympathize with the 7/7 bombings. And yet twice that number of british muslims want sharia law: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ls-40pc-of-Muslims-want-sharia-law-in-UK.html

So, keep saying that muslim terrorism is only conducted and/or supported by a "tiny" percentage of muslims if it makes you feel better. But you're wrong, and that's a numerical fact. Keep pretending there is not some deep incompatibility between islam and western values, but again it's just playing make believe.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,775
49,434
136
That was some nice spin on #2. Take a poll that shows overwhelming opposition to ISIS by Muslims and say 'tens of millions support ISIS' out of it, simply by virtue of the fact that with one billion Muslims even 1% support, which is of course within the margin of error, would equal ten million people.

How to lie with numbers 101!
 
Jan 25, 2011
16,634
8,778
146
Gunman reportedly contacted foreign terror organizations
More solid claims of what was reported early on. Not only was she connected to Pakistan's ISIS loving Red Mosque, he reached out to actual terrorist cells.

Which begs the question. They did not buy the rifles. Who gave them the guns?

Sadly the system makes it incredibly difficult to find the answer to that question in any timely manner, if at all. The efforts the ATF have to go through when there is a trace request after a crime is almost Herculean.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,570
7,631
136
Sadly the system makes it incredibly difficult to find the answer to that question in any timely manner, if at all. The efforts the ATF have to go through when there is a trace request after a crime is almost Herculean.

They already said all 4 guns were legally purchased. They also said the couple weren't the ones who bought the two rifles. They appear to have their answers, they're just not sharing.
Link.
 

unokitty

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2012
3,346
1
0
Journalists storm San Bernardino shooters' apartment after landlord pries open door

Exactly what this former MP would do if I didn't want the investigation to succeed.

Investigations are dynamic what isn't important in one phase may become important later after more information is gathered.

Now, no more evidence can be gathered from the perp's home.

Almost like the Feds don't want a successful investigation of people of the religion that Obama refuses to mention.

Uno
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
26,665
24,968
136
Journalists storm San Bernardino shooters' apartment after landlord pries open door

Exactly what this former MP would do if I didn't want the investigation to succeed.

Investigations are dynamic what isn't important in one phase may become important later after more information is gathered.

Now, no more evidence can be gathered from the perp's home.

Almost like the Feds don't want a successful investigation of people of the religion that Obama refuses to mention.

Uno

Quick there is a sale on foil in aisle 4!
 

Blanky

Platinum Member
Oct 18, 2014
2,457
12
46
That was some nice spin on #2. Take a poll that shows overwhelming opposition to ISIS by Muslims and say 'tens of millions support ISIS' out of it, simply by virtue of the fact that with one billion Muslims even 1% support, which is of course within the margin of error, would equal ten million people.

How to lie with numbers 101!
Your post is a perfect example of an otherwise intelligent person setting aside his brain on this topic. Making up numbers (margin of error leading to possibly zero muslims supporting terrorism), ignoring other ones (what did you think of the first link or the third or the rest of the second?), etc. I know you're smarter than this and I hope you feel a bit ashamed of your post because it's something I'd expect from a fool; you can do better.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,775
49,434
136
Your post is a perfect example of an otherwise intelligent person setting aside his brain on this topic. Making up numbers (margin of error leading to possibly zero muslims supporting terrorism), ignoring other ones (what did you think of the first link or the third or the rest of the second?), etc. I know you're smarter than this and I hope you feel a bit ashamed of your post because it's something I'd expect from a fool; you can do better.

Sorry, but point number two is indefensible. You should delete it. I guarantee you the margin of error is larger than 1%.

EDIT: More importantly, it attempts to leverage polling that shows ISIS is enormously unpopular to say how millions support it. You realize if you apply that same poll's results on Christians you end up with millions of Christian supporters of ISIS too, right?
 
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BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
15,785
1,500
126
I've done enough with this thread, but I'll offer this.

Jefferson was a Deist. He couldn't subscribe to organized Christianity so much as his contemporaries. And from his library, we still have in archives his own Quran with extensive marginalia.

They had discussed this matter -- about the Muslim integrating into their secular order, and it seemed pretty much settled. In other words, the Founders -- one or more of them -- were far more progressive in their enlightenment than those Chicken Littles showing up as Islamophobes.

If there are an uncomfortable minority of Muslims who hold attitudes similar to their nut-case extremists, I say -- look for multiple causation in world affairs and history.

You don't need a database of Muslims to track down terrorists. You just need NSA meta-data. And if we keep picking this scab about Islam as a failed religion or Muslims as "suspect-Others," you just increase the chance that things will get worse instead of better.

Finally, if you look at all the nutcase mass-shootings across the country over the last several years, and extend that view going back all the way to Charles Whitman, Islam seems to be less of a problem, and lunacy with easy access to weapons seems to be the greater.

Some of our boys -- men and women -- were killed in Afghanistan as a proven response to Pastor Terry Jones and his big Quran bonfire. What is Afghanistan? A backwards, poor little country with a shitbag school system -- little or none. And which of the two is more ignorant in that episode?

Analyze your own mass-psychology no less than that of those "Others."
 

michal1980

Diamond Member
Mar 7, 2003
8,019
43
91
I've done enough with this thread, but I'll offer this.

Jefferson was a Deist. He couldn't subscribe to organized Christianity so much as his contemporaries. And from his library, we still have in archives his own Quran with extensive marginalia.

They had discussed this matter -- about the Muslim integrating into their secular order, and it seemed pretty much settled. In other words, the Founders -- one or more of them -- were far more progressive in their enlightenment than those Chicken Littles showing up as Islamophobes.

If there are an uncomfortable minority of Muslims who hold attitudes similar to their nut-case extremists, I say -- look for multiple causation in world affairs and history.

You don't need a database of Muslims to track down terrorists. You just need NSA meta-data. And if we keep picking this scab about Islam as a failed religion or Muslims as "suspect-Others," you just increase the chance that things will get worse instead of better.

Finally, if you look at all the nutcase mass-shootings across the country over the last several years, and extend that view going back all the way to Charles Whitman, Islam seems to be less of a problem, and lunacy with easy access to weapons seems to be the greater.

Some of our boys -- men and women -- were killed in Afghanistan as a proven response to Pastor Terry Jones and his big Quran bonfire. What is Afghanistan? A backwards, poor little country with a shitbag school system -- little or none. And which of the two is more ignorant in that episode?

Analyze your own mass-psychology no less than that of those "Others."

white guys fault. Got it.

Cant every be the fault of a Islamic terrorist. Nope, Islam has nothing to do with this. If the white man was eliminated then they'd all be nice and peaceful.
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
15,785
1,500
126
white guys fault. Got it.

Cant every be the fault of a Islamic terrorist. Nope, Islam has nothing to do with this. If the white man was eliminated then they'd all be nice and peaceful.

RI-I-GHT!! White people don't succumb to mass-psychology.

You're a real piece of work, guy!
 

norseamd

Lifer
Dec 13, 2013
13,990
180
106
Jefferson was a Deist. He couldn't subscribe to organized Christianity so much as his contemporaries. And from his library, we still have in archives his own Quran with extensive marginalia.

They had discussed this matter -- about the Muslim integrating into their secular order, and it seemed pretty much settled. In other words, the Founders -- one or more of them -- were far more progressive in their enlightenment than those Chicken Littles showing up as Islamophobes.

Any links?
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,999
1,396
126
Well, NBC News said the shooters used "ILLEGAL" (in CA) 30 rounds mags and they taped two mags together to increase the amount of bullets at the ready to be fire and the two rifles (AR15s) were purchased by another person/friend.

So much for all the restriction on AR15s from CA. When a criminal wants to break the law, no law will stop him/her.

Keep telling yourself that more restriction and new law will stop the criminals. LOL.
 
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Vaux

Senior member
May 24, 2013
593
6
81
Well, NBC News said the shooters used "ILLEGAL" (in CA) 30 rounds mags and they taped two mags together to increase the amount of bullets at the ready to be fire and the two rifles (AR15s) were purchased by another person/friend.

So much for all the restriction on AR15s from CA. When a criminal wants to break the law, no law will stop him/her.

Keep telling yourself that more restriction and new law will stop the criminals. LOL.

Inland Regional Center is a gun free zone. You can see how well that works, too.
 

MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
38,751
3,068
121
Well, NBC News said the shooters used "ILLEGAL" (in CA) 30 rounds mags and they taped two mags together to increase the amount of bullets at the ready to be fire and the two rifles (AR15s) were purchased by another person/friend.

So much for all the restriction on AR15s from CA. When a criminal wants to break the law, no law will stop him/her.

Keep telling yourself that more restriction and new law will stop the criminals. LOL.

Still have a few 30 round mags laying around here, and do not even own an AR15.

Did give a buddy a couple before I moved decades ago.

There are a lot of surplus things floating around that were not illegal at one time.

They usually work best if you only put around 28 in them though.

*Taps helmet*
 
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BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
15,785
1,500
126
Any links?

Unlike that "other thing" in the McNamara thread, I can only say I'd picked this up in dribs and drabs from news, the Wiki and other sources.

The Jefferson Quran has been much discussed, and there should be plenty of links resulting from a simple web search.

The "discussion" at the time they created the Constitution got some reference -- probably in an op-ed I'd read recently in the Times. And you can argue -- for SOME newspapers -- that op-eds aren't reliable sources, but I think I'd heard enough about it before that I was comfortable with the Times source.

There is a paradox about the "Founders" in modern perception that doesn't confound me.

They're made bigger than life, like gods by your run-of-the-mill conservative self-described patriot. It always pops up when they're arguing their literalist interpretation of the Constitution.

On the other hand, they were luminaries of the 18th century, when the Industrial Revolution was still nearly at the starting gate, and Smith's "Wealth of Nations" was published in 1776. In college classes of "Constitutional Economics," and economic philosophy, the brilliance of their thinking derived from a notion called the "Veil of Ignorance." This was the idea that you wouldn't want to create a law directed at some specific group in the present, if it would come back to haunt your own group in the future.

They could not have envisioned "machines in the garden" like locomotives and autos, or if they did, they might not have imagined megalopolises, nuclear weapons, Holocaust genocide and many other aspects of modern history.

They were only men, even for being great men. And they were secularists for their day. I think they'd roll in their graves over Mike Huckabee and some of the other talking heads.

There are now long-established schools of "political-economy" at places like Charlottesville, Blacksburg, George Mason, and bodies of literature discussing "how to construct a constitution." Yet, any thought of changing our own always brings a reactionary argument to the fore about the Founders Bigger Than Life.

You'd wonder what they might have thought about gay marriage. I'd wager -- if they were informed of the particulars -- that 10% of the population was gay two millennia ago and 10% today -- it wouldn't take that long for them to embrace the idea. think about how Jefferson agonized over the slavery question. He'd do the same for these other issues.

But -- yes -- they discussed "how to integrate the 'Musselmen' [muslims] into the fabric." No doubt of it.
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,890
642
126
Journalists storm San Bernardino shooters' apartment after landlord pries open door

Exactly what this former MP would do if I didn't want the investigation to succeed.

Investigations are dynamic what isn't important in one phase may become important later after more information is gathered.

Now, no more evidence can be gathered from the perp's home.

Almost like the Feds don't want a successful investigation of people of the religion that Obama refuses to mention.

Uno
Have you seen this?

http://conservativevideos.com/the-f...nsack-home-of-san-bernardino-terrorists-home/

The home these two lived in was not dusted for fingerprints. The FBI knows that there are co-conspirators at least at a financial level, they also know people were seen coming and going. Yet they saw no reason to try and get fingerprints? Something's rotten but this ain't Denmark.

I ran across that link in this article.

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2015/12/rebuking_obamas_folly.html

You'll like reading it as did I. Many here won't.

The safety of the citizen's of our nation is on the back burner for the remainder of Obama's term in office. Our safety is in our own hands.

The election is less than one year away. I think people are going to remember who has decided that their safety is of minor importance while also wanting to take away their means to defend themselves.
 
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