Discussion Ada/'Lovelace'? Next gen Nvidia gaming architecture speculation

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jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
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The chiplet-based models will be modular and can support a broader product line. I'm assuming it's entirely possible for there to be single chiplet GPUs that would be less powerful than a monolithic GPU targeting 6900XT performance levels.

It wouldn't have made sense to do a monolithic model if they were intending to release single chiplet models. The RDNA2 refresh will be just fine below Navi 33.
 
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Saylick

Diamond Member
Sep 10, 2012
3,385
7,151
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It wouldn't have made sense to do a monolithic model if they were intending to release single chiplet models. The RDNA2 refresh will be just fine below Navi 33.
I suspect it would still be beneficial to update the lower end stuff to TSMC N6 and RDNA 3 to reap any potential cost benefits and architectural improvements, but I agree that there is no real rush.
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
14,835
5,452
136
That they felt the need to use AD103 in the end is a bad sign... or a good sign for RDNA3. Even assuming it's cut down.
 
Jul 27, 2020
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Are we looking at 7800 XT having 20 GB? I'm sure the VRAM advantage factored into a lot of gamers' decisions in getting the 6800 XT over the 3080.
 

SmokSmog

Member
Oct 2, 2020
63
113
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So AD103 for RTX 4080 then, intersting, that means RTX 3080Ti/4090/Ti will be way faster this time compared to RTX 4080 not like RTX 3090 vs RTX 3080.

RTX 4080 84SM 16GB 256bit 64MB l2 cache
RTX 4070 60SM 12GB 192bit 48MB l2 cache
RTX 4060Ti 50SM 12GB 192bit 48MB l2 cache
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
14,835
5,452
136
So AD103 for RTX 4080 then, intersting, that means RTX 3080Ti/4090/Ti will be way faster this time compared to RTX 4080 not like RTX 3090 vs RTX 3080.

RTX 4080 84SM 16GB 256bit 64MB l2 cache
RTX 4070 60SM 12GB 192bit 48MB l2 cache

It wouldn't be the full if they were to do that. The cut may not be very far though.
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
14,835
5,452
136
Lol, "extremely highly clocked" might mean an extra 100 MHz only, at the cost of +300W.

Well, the "official" boost clock for the 3090 Ti is 300 Mhz over the 3090 for an extra 100 W. And you'd have to account for having double the ram chips if it has 48 GB.
 

Aapje

Golden Member
Mar 21, 2022
1,467
2,031
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AD103 for 4080 and AD104 for 4070 does make sense if this is a relatively strong generation. It also explains why the rumor mill doesn't think that the prices will be that crazy for the mid and low end.

It allows for a large price gap between the 4080 and the 4080 Ti/4090, as there will also be a big performance gap.

My prediction/guess is that Nvidia will be very competitive at the top end and might beat AMD there, but is less competitive at the mid/low end.
 

Saylick

Diamond Member
Sep 10, 2012
3,385
7,151
136
Well, the "official" boost clock for the 3090 Ti is 300 Mhz over the 3090 for an extra 100 W. And you'd have to account for having double the ram chips if it has 48 GB.
That makes sense when you're going from 350W to 450W. Going from 600W to 900W is an entirely different matter. That's likely so far from the efficient zone that the F-V curve is practically flat (assuming voltage is on the horizontal axis and frequency is on the vertical axis). Heck, I'm more impressed that Nvidia can actually pump 900W of total board power into the thing. That's unheard of for a consumer part. It's even more than the TBP of their H100 server part.
 

Saylick

Diamond Member
Sep 10, 2012
3,385
7,151
136
No matter what it takes, Nvidia must win by 1 fps!
I look forward to laughing at the perf/W charts from various reviewers if this thing really does come with a 900W TBP. It's going to be within the same range as GPUs from last generation or possibly even two generations ago. I'd laugh even harder if the original Fermi GTX480 somehow gets better perf/W (not likely, but still something to chuckle about if it did happen).
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
14,835
5,452
136
My prediction/guess is that Nvidia will be very competitive at the top end and might beat AMD there, but is less competitive at the mid/low end.

Other way around. This 900 W monster might be needed to beat the full Navi 31.

I look forward to laughing at the perf/W charts from various reviewers if this thing really does come with a 900W TBP. It's going to be within the same range as GPUs from last generation or possibly even two generations ago. I'd laugh even harder if the original Fermi GTX480 somehow gets better perf/W (not likely, but still something to chuckle about if it did happen).

If it's running at 3 Ghz or more, will people (well people who are willing to also pay $2999 for a GPU) care?
 

MrTeal

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2003
3,584
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It's a good thing my office is in the basement, it'll make it easier to pour the new piling in the floor needed to support the 7 slot cooler on the 4090 FTW3.
 
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moonbogg

Lifer
Jan 8, 2011
10,637
3,095
136
I hope they at least offer us a GT 4030 for under $800 with maybe performance similar to a GTX 1060.
 
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Frenetic Pony

Senior member
May 1, 2012
218
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Are we looking at 7800 XT having 20 GB? I'm sure the VRAM advantage factored into a lot of gamers' decisions in getting the 6800 XT over the 3080.

Maybe they'll offer it up as an optional SKU? Two consumer levels of RAM has been done before. 10GB should meet any "minimum" requirements, but more would certainly be nice. Besides it's the AIBs that pay for the memory directly.
 

Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
8,005
6,449
136
It wouldn't have made sense to do a monolithic model if they were intending to release single chiplet models. The RDNA2 refresh will be just fine below Navi 33.

We really don't know to what degree their MCM approach has performance issues that a monolithic chip won't have. The first Zen CPUs had some behavior quirks that AMD was only able to iron out as they gained experience and iterated on the design. Maybe some of that helps with potential problems with GPUs, but the fact that they haven't done it until now suggests there are some hurdles.

But putting that aside, there will always be IO dies that can't connect to a full number of chiplets due to some defect. There's no reason for AMD to waste silicon if it can be turned into a product of some sort. Using chiplets makes it easier to create a wide variety of products with a limited number of dies. It's the same idea with Zen where you can get 1 or 2 chiplet Ryzen desktop parts or get a Threadripper CPU built from the same chiplets if you need more power.

The whole point of using chiplets is so you can use the same silicon to make a wide variety of products and be flexible enough to adjust to market conditions. Making multiple monolithic dies to cover those products is less cost effective and isn't nearly as flexible.

The fact that we're seeing 3 different Navi dies, one of which is monolithic would seem to suggest to me that there are still some kinks to be worked out when it comes to designing MCM GPUs. Otherwise AMD would have just created a single Navi chiplet that could be used in any number necessary to hit a particular performance level.
 
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