Discussion Ada/'Lovelace'? Next gen Nvidia gaming architecture speculation

[igor_kavinski]

so at best they might be able to get the heatpipe/finstack manufacturer (usually coolermaster) to recycle the old ampere thinner finstacks, meaning the revised cards wont be that much cheaper.

I'm not interested in the 4090 anyway. Hopefully, the better yield and quality of the chips means that the 4060 Ti will be a kickass efficient card.

 

[igor_kavinski]

What are the odds that UL will release a new 3DMARK test where the 4090 is 50-70% faster? (You heard it here first!).

3DMark Speed Way DirectX 12 Ultimate Benchmark is Launching on October 12

3DMark Speed Way is a new GPU benchmark that showcases the graphics technology that will power the next generation of gaming experiences. We're excited to announce Speed Way, sponsored by Lenovo Legion, is releasing on October 12. Our team has been working hard to get Speed Way ready for you to...

www.techpowerup.com

WHAT?????

Why didn't lottery numbers just pop up in my head instead???

 

[jpiniero]

From Compubase's review the 4090 is 60-70% faster at 4K.

Edit: Some games are 80% or more but that's rare.

They also tested efficiency at different power levels.

Nvidia GeForce RTX 4090 FE im Test: Brachial schnell: Leistung mit weniger TDP, Overclocking, PCIe 3.0 und neue Treiber (Update)

Nvidia GeForce RTX 4090 im Test: Leistung mit weniger TDP, Overclocking, PCIe 3.0 und neue Treiber (Update)

www.computerbase.de

 

[Heartbreaker]

Bigger than a keyboard, almost as wide & tall as a PS5, won't even fit into his case, LMFAO.

Won't fit into a case, specifically chosen to demonstrate it not fitting... What a surprise...

This is why cases have specs on length of card supported. There are a lot of low depth cases out there, and I specifically avoided them, just because I wanted ample room under the shroud for a long PSU and HDDs, not because I wanted a giant GPU. The case I bought supports 400mm GPUs with fans installed. So pretty sure that one would easily fit in my case with room to spare.

But, yeah, other than that stunt, GPUs are getting more power hungry and bigger...

 

[In2Photos]

Won't fit into a case, specifically chosen to demonstrate it not fitting... What a surprise...

But, yeah, other than that stunt, GPUs are getting more power hungry and bigger...

I've only watched 1 review so far, by DerBauer, but he is surprised that the 4090 is so much faster than the 3090Ti with less power consumption. He questioned the sizing of the card as well as the reasoning behind the power limits. Definitely some interesting stuff going on here.

 

[Stuka87]

We've reached a new level of stupid idiocy, folks:

Bigger than a keyboard, almost as wide & tall as a PS5, won't even fit into his case, LMFAO.

I used to spend a lot of money on nVidia hardware, but they'll never get a cent from me for such garbage engineering.

I don't think its the engineer's fault. Ultimately they are forced to do what the higher up brass wants. In this case, they wanted to eek out performance at the cost of efficiency. nVidia used to brag about efficiency, now they are back to the fermi days. So the engineers are then required to build a cooler that will handle the massive power consumption of the card that has been clocked higher than it should have been.

 

[Heartbreaker]

I've only watched 1 review so far, by DerBauer, but he is surprised that the 4090 is so much faster than the 3090Ti with less power consumption. He questioned the sizing of the card as well as the reasoning behind the power limits. Definitely some interesting stuff going on here.

View attachment 68939

This trend didn't start with this release. Both CPUs and GPUs have been pushing further into the OC zone, to drum up performance. Just look at the new AMD CPUs that run CPU's at 95C.

Dennard scaling broke down a fair ways back as well, and the cost of silicon area is shooting up.

Bottom line is with companies competing on performance, they are going to be using more power to get there. They aren't going to leave any easy gains on the table, when it might cause them a loss in a review.

 

[Stuka87]

Won't fit into a case, specifically chosen to demonstrate it not fitting... What a surprise...

This is why cases have specs on length of card supported. There are a lot of low depth cases out there, and I specifically avoided them, just because I wanted ample room under the shroud for a long PSU and HDDs, not because I wanted a giant GPU. The case I bought supports 400mm GPUs with fans installed. So pretty sure that one would easily fit in my case with room to spare.

But, yeah, other than that stunt, GPUs are getting more power hungry and bigger...

They AIB cards won't fit in most cases though. I have a Lian Li O11 Dynamic. It's a very popular, mid tower case. And AIB 4090's will not fit in it. The length of the card isn't the only issue when it comes to fitting, its also the width. Many of the cards will actually hit the side panel of the case they are being installed into.

 

[Heartbreaker]

Onto performance: HWUB. ~60% improvement 13 game average for Raster games at 4K. Lower than 4K and the CPU is more of a bottleneck...

 

[Aikouka]

I've only watched 1 review so far, by DerBauer, but he is surprised that the 4090 is so much faster than the 3090Ti with less power consumption. He questioned the sizing of the card as well as the reasoning behind the power limits. Definitely some interesting stuff going on here.

View attachment 68939

Seems like it's similar to the 30-series where the idea of dropping the power target to shave down the power usage while still maintaining very acceptable frame rates might be viable. I do think there's still more value doing this on a game-by-game basis just to see how much of a hit they take, but I don't suspect it will be substantial.

They AIB cards won't fit in most cases though. I have a Lian Li O11 Dynamic. It's a very popular, mid tower case. And AIB 4090's will not fit in it. The length of the card isn't the only issue when it comes to fitting, its also the width. Many of the cards will actually hit the side panel of the case they are being installed into.

Don't forget that the 4090 FE has the power connector on the side as well. Even if it fits in the case and is close to the side panel, it might make it impossible to actually plug in the external power. It's kind of surprising that they haven't gone to rear power plugs like ASUS did with their 4090.

 

[Stuka87]

What on earth is going on here? This is from LTT's review, and they glossed right over it.

They did note that all of their cards constantly crashed with DLSS 3 enabled, so they have no results for it.

 

[In2Photos]

Don't forget that the 4090 FE has the power connector on the side as well. Even if it fits in the case and is close to the side panel, it might make it impossible to actually plug in the external power. It's kind of surprising that they haven't gone to rear power plugs like ASUS did with their 4090.

The video by JayzTwoCents has about a 5 minute discussion about this very thing and he said nVidia didn't think it was a problem. He said the Asus ROG Helios case is huge and the connector hits the side panel on the FE.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Many of the cards will actually hit the side panel of the case they are being installed into.

Thus begins the rise of the PCIe risers!

I think case manufacturers will need to go back to the drawing board and redesign cases, if this is the future of GPUs.

 

[CakeMonster]

Don't forget that the 4090 FE has the power connector on the side as well. Even if it fits in the case and is close to the side panel, it might make it impossible to actually plug in the external power. It's kind of surprising that they haven't gone to rear power plugs like ASUS did with their 4090.

That is mind boggling. Props to Asus at least.

 

[Heartbreaker]

GN has some interesting power testing. Transients are lower but longer than 3090. Power draw seems to sensibly balance among the connectors:

 

[DiogoDX]

Nvidia GeForce RTX 4090 FE im Test: Brachial schnell

Die Nvidia GeForce RTX 4090 läutet den Next-Gen-Schlagabtausch ein. Leistung, Stromverbrauch, Effizienz, Kühlung und DLSS 3 im Test.

www.computerbase.de

 

[Hitman928]

What on earth is going on here? This is from LTT's review, and they glossed right over it.

They did note that all of their cards constantly crashed with DLSS 3 enabled, so they have no results for it.

View attachment 68944

Usually I don't pay too much attention to 1% (and especially 0.1%) lows because they can be very fickle, but considering the 5% lows and even the average is a regression from the 3090 Ti, I'm going to have to assume it's a driver issue. With DLSS 3 causing constant crashes, it seems like the software needs a little more time. I'm sure Nvidia will get it worked out fairly quickly, but it certainly hurts a little when you see these issues in the day 1 reviews which are the only ones most people see.

 

[Aikouka]

That is mind boggling. Props to Asus at least.

Although, thinking about it more, I guess it makes a bit of sense to avoid putting the power cable at the end of the card. With the switch to smaller PCBs and the use of flow-through-style heatsinks, I don't think they want the power cable running through the heatsink-only area.

 

[Heartbreaker]

Digital Foundry: Most reviews are delaying DLSS 3 coverage for now. DF discusses it. This time it's not a NVidia informercial. Much more balanced discussion of DLSS 3 frame generation here:

 

[igor_kavinski]

4090 FE at 300W looks fantastic! It should work fine with a 3080 cooling shroud.

 

[igor_kavinski]

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090 Founders Edition 24GB Review - Drink less, work more! | Page 11 | igor'sLAB (igorslab.de)

850W PSU is enough if you don't run Furmark.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Other than the price, there is nothing IMO to dislike about the FE 4090. That you can get away with only 3 power cables being connected is outstanding too. Nvidia hit it out of the park this time.

 

[Mopetar]

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090 - Where the misconception about 600 watts really comes from and why the cards are so huge | igor'sLAB (igorslab.de)

Finally, we have an explanation of what went wrong. Nvidia engineers gave a thermal design guide of 600W to AIBs but then the chip yield and quality proved to be phenomenal. Unfortunately, the manufacturing wheels had already started turning so it was too late to stop. Seems there should be revised boards soon, once the initial supply of oversized cards runs out. My guess is around January?

Can't say I blame EVGA for walking away. NVidia just needs to accept a few things leaking out at the expense of better products on day one.

I've only watched 1 review so far, by DerBauer, but he is surprised that the 4090 is so much faster than the 3090Ti with less power consumption. He questioned the sizing of the card as well as the reasoning behind the power limits. Definitely some interesting stuff going on here.

View attachment 68939

Considering they went from Samsung 8nm to TSMC 4nm custom process it's hardly surprising. We usually don't see node jumps like that.

 

[Heartbreaker]

After going through a number of reviews it's a beast:

Average ~ 1.6X Raster game performance.
Average ~ 1.8X RT game performance.

That's vs the 3090 Ti, tack on almost another 20% gain vs the 3090.

Improved perf/watt, and better power balancing.

NVenc AV1 encoder is night and day quality improvement at same bit rates.

All this for $100 more than the original 3090, has buyers at this end of the market really well served.

It's an absolute beast of a card, wasted on less than 4K high refresh monitor.

Interesting thing was seeing the CPU bottleneck at anything below 4K, so this could open up new deltas in game testing CPUs.

DLSS sometimes has the same exact performance enable or disabled.

DLSS 3 Frame interpolation mostly was put off for future testing, but DF had a much more realistic take than in the previous piece where NVidia clearly tied their hands. Mentions that it doesn't help situations with frame stutter and may in fact make them worse, and mentioning the negative latency impact. Other sites touching on it mentioned latency as well, a couple stating it's best used with controllers where you feel latency less. The hit is more noticeable when using a mouse.

 

[linkgoron]

After going through a number of reviews it's a beast:

Average ~ 1.6X Raster game performance.
Average ~ 1.8X RT game performance.

That's vs the 3090 Ti, tack on almost another 20% gain vs the 3090.

Am I the only one that's a bit disappointed given the original (months ago) expectations? Everyone was talking about how this is basically a two node or 1.5 nodes jump because of going from "bad" Samsung 8nm to TSMC 5/4nm, and we're basically seeing 1.6X raster performance or 1.8x RT performance while using 2.7 times the amount of transistors, an insane cooler and 450 watts?

DLSS 3 is obviously a joke.