Discussion Ada/'Lovelace'? Next gen Nvidia gaming architecture speculation

[Saylick]

Nvidia are just terrible. I expect to see their shills say how this is great for us and how we should appreciate the performance they've given the 3k series. I assume that the improvements were ready months ago.

I've seen first-hand some of the shills on Twitter who are already defending Nvidia as an entity who can do no wrong. I literally saw a Tweet today about how Nvidia retracting the 4080 12 GB was an "extremely clever marketing trick", as if Nvidia deserve praise for being so cunning.

As for the driver situation, yeah, I think for those who follow this stuff regularly, it was immediately obvious that the driver was ready a while ago because they literally dropped it the day after the 4090 reviews came out. Now, the 4090 looks faster against Ampere on launch reviews, but then when RDNA 3 is out, last-gen Ampere will be slightly stronger in comparison to their new-gen AMD counterparts.

 

[In2Photos]

Lol ... I guess the box can be reprinted. But the AIB's will have to scrape the 4080 branding off the all metal coolers?. Those AIB partners have gotta be pissed.

I bet AIBs don't have to do anything. It's probably the same cooler for both 4080s.

 

[blckgrffn]

I bet AIBs don't have to do anything. It's probably the same cooler for both 4080s.

Maybe… they use different dies though, don’t they? I don’t think it was die with some fused off. Which is another reason the same card name just didn’t make sense.

 

[maddie]

I've seen first-hand some of the shills on Twitter who are already defending Nvidia as an entity who can do no wrong. I literally saw a Tweet today about how Nvidia retracting the 4080 12 GB was an "extremely clever marketing trick", as if Nvidia deserve praise for being so cunning.

As for the driver situation, yeah, I think for those who follow this stuff regularly, it was immediately obvious that the driver was ready a while ago because they literally dropped it the day after the 4090 reviews came out. Now, the 4090 looks faster against Ampere on launch reviews, but then when RDNA 3 is out, last-gen Ampere will be slightly stronger in comparison to their new-gen AMD counterparts.

The way all social media has been corrupted, it might not be normal people, or even people at all.

 

[rommelrommel]

Maybe… they use different dies though, don’t they? I don’t think it was die with some fused off. Which is another reason the same card name just didn’t make sense.

Yeah, the 12g card was on AD104, 16g AD103, 4090 AD102.

 

[jpiniero]

My guess as to what happens is that it returns as the 4070 Ti and is released at the same time the 4070 is. But I think the 4070's release is some time off.

 

[maddie]

My guess as to what happens is that it returns as the 4070 Ti and is released at the same time the 4070 is. But I think the 4070's release is some time off.

You think normal & Ti released simultaneously?

 

[Kaluan]

IDK about you guys n gals but I'm eagerly awaiting RTX 5000... can't wait for nVidia to play the cringe "It's safe to upgrade now" card again 🤣🤣

Like a fiddle they're playing us lol

 

[amenx]

My guess as to what happens is that it returns as the 4070 Ti and is released at the same time the 4070 is. But I think the 4070's release is some time off.

Hope not. Its already much lower spec and perf vs the 4080 16gb. If its a Ti, then a regular 4070 will be an even weaker card.

 

[Heartbreaker]

Hope not. Its already much lower spec and perf vs the 4080 16gb. If its a Ti, then a regular 4070 will be an even weaker card.

Naming really doesn't matter, and pricing really isn't going to be changed by naming, though I expect a price drop as part of the shift. It almost certainly isn't going to drop to $500 like the 3070 was, no matter what they name it.

They will need to make a cut down version of AD104 as well, so I'd bet on the 4070Ti and 4070 as the AD104 segments. It's a logical split that I don't have any objection to. Certainly better than calling it 4080 12GB like they originally did.

 

[Thunder 57]

I've seen first-hand some of the shills on Twitter who are already defending Nvidia as an entity who can do no wrong. I literally saw a Tweet today about how Nvidia retracting the 4080 12 GB was an "extremely clever marketing trick", as if Nvidia deserve praise for being so cunning...

It's pretty bad. Today I saw some reviews of the 4090 and now videos of the "unlaunching" on some of the common youtube channels. People were begging for competition and quite a few were saying things like "Please save us Intel" with only a few saying how AMD is very price competitive right now.

 

[blckgrffn]

It's pretty bad. Today I saw some reviews of the 4090 and now videos of the "unlaunching" on some of the common youtube channels. People were begging for competition and quite a few were saying things like "Please save us Intel" with only a few saying how AMD is very price competitive right now.

View attachment 69161

You mean they have gone this long denying that AMD exists that they can no longer acknowledge that they do in fact make competitive products and so are now looking past them to Intel? LMAO. That’s some real dedication to the bit, my hat is off to them.

 

[Tup3x]

I'll bet Jensen was behind this hare-brained idea to name the the 12gb card a 4080. He may be a brilliant engineer, but a lousy marketing guy. Good he's come to his senses and unlaunched the damn thing.

I don't know... Makes me feel like they were just playing mind games. This whole thing feels very weird.

 

[coercitiv]

Makes me feel like they were just playing mind games.

To paraphrase Hanlon's Razor, never attribute to cunning what can be plainly explained by incompetence.

 

[jpiniero]

Hope not. Its already much lower spec and perf vs the 4080 16gb. If its a Ti, then a regular 4070 will be an even weaker card.

They were never going to call the Full AD104 the 4070, especially with the price increase. Having a 4070 Ti without a 4070 does seem a little strange though.

 

[In2Photos]

Naming really doesn't matter, and pricing really isn't going to be changed by naming, though I expect a price drop as part of the shift. It almost certainly isn't going to drop to $500 like the 3070 was, no matter what they name it.

They will need to make a cut down version of AD104 as well, so I'd bet on the 4070Ti and 4070 as the AD104 segments. It's a logical split that I don't have any objection to. Certainly better than calling it 4080 12GB like they originally did.

If naming really doesn't matter than why did nVidia just pull this card due to naming?

 

[Leeea]

Lol ... I guess the box can be reprinted. But the AIB's will have to scrape the 4080 branding off the all metal coolers?. Those AIB partners have gotta be pissed.

I think that is especially funny, because I think the 12GB was a AIB only card?

 

[amenx]

Naming really doesn't matter, and pricing really isn't going to be changed by naming, though I expect a price drop as part of the shift. It almost certainly isn't going to drop to $500 like the 3070 was, no matter what they name it.

It does matter. If they had named it a 4070 from the start, they would certainly not have been able to charge $900 for it. That is the reason they called it a 4080, to milk the hell out of it. It was only due to bad publicity they reversed course. This card now will sell for quite a bit less with a lower tier naming.

 

[Heartbreaker]

If naming really doesn't matter than why did nVidia just pull this card due to naming?

Because there was a big backlash, but IMO that backlash was more about pricing, the only reason most of us really complained about naming is because it was used as cover for the higher pricing.

IMO, now NVidia is using naming as cover again, to lower the pricing. IMO, they'd rather admit the got the name wrong than the pricing wrong. Notice in their explanation there was no mention of the real issue, pricing.

It would have been so much easier it just drop the pricing(the real issue), since they wouldn't need to change boxes, bios, and cards, but they are doing this renaming exercise to brush aside the pricing issue.

GN did a video, and he has pretty good industry contacts. The cards were essentially ready to go, and the now recycling boxes, and apparently NVidia is covering costs for new boxes, and the new cards will have a lower price...

 

[fleshconsumed]

Eh, even if they lower the price it'll probably still be grossly overpriced. Both 4080/16 and 4080/12 are so grossly overpriced that they make 4090 look good.

 

[jpiniero]

Because there was a big backlash, but IMO that backlash was more about pricing, the only reason most of us really complained about naming is because it was used as cover for the higher pricing.

As I've mentioned before, changing the name at this stage has to require some effort and time to get together. The pricing is going to be mediocre - that's what Moore's Law being dead does.

I doubt there will be any price change in practice especially when AIBs control the actual final price.

 

[Heartbreaker]

As I've mentioned before, changing the name at this stage has to require some effort and time to get together. The pricing is going to be mediocre - that's what Moore's Law being dead does.

I doubt there will be any price change in practice especially when AIBs control the actual final price.

Price will still suck, it will just suck a little less. At most I'd expect a $200 drop, and I think there is a higher chance it's still only $100 to $150 off.

But I expect the AIBs will drop price too. NVidia will likely rebate them, or whatever backchannel pricing mechanisms it has in place for price cuts. Like when all the 3090ti's dropped almost $900 in one week. NVidia had to instigate that cut, and rebate AIBs.

 

[rommelrommel]

Price will still suck, it will just suck a little less. At most I'd expect a $200 drop, and I think there is a higher chance it's still only $100 to $150 off.

But I expect the AIBs will drop price too. NVidia will likely rebate them, or whatever backchannel pricing mechanisms it has in place for price cuts. Like when all the 3090ti's dropped almost $900 in one week. NVidia had to instigate that cut, and rebate AIBs.

I think you're on track, but even at $699 it's a joke. It would be a worthy upgrade to a 3070 for sure, which were $499 MSRP and not a particularly good value at that price. With inflation and price creep I could accept $599 as a good place to start.

These cards did serve their purpose of making the 4090 seem like the best value to people with deep pockets tho, I agree on that.

 

[jpiniero]

I think you're on track, but even at $699 it's a joke. It would be a worthy upgrade to a 3070 for sure, which were $499 MSRP and not a particularly good value at that price. With inflation and price creep I could accept $599 as a good place to start.

The real 4070 (which is probably 10% slower than this card) is likely going to be more than $599. That'd still be a sizable improvement over the 3070 although not much over the 3080.

Edit: And I don't think you will see the 4070 until GA102 supply is completely gone. Could be awhile.

 

[Heartbreaker]

I think you're on track, but even at $699 it's a joke. It would be a worthy upgrade to a 3070 for sure, which were $499 MSRP and not a particularly good value at that price. With inflation and price creep I could accept $599 as a good place to start.

Approx 3090 performance for $699 will likely be quite palatable for a large number of people. Though the price might not even be that good.

Moores law has slowed down significantly and the days of getting double the performance for the same price are long gone.