Discussion Ada/'Lovelace'? Next gen Nvidia gaming architecture speculation

[rommelrommel]

The 4090 offers around 70% better raster for like 8% more money over the 3090. I think that should be reflected down the stack myself, I realise if there’s no pressure from AMD that it won’t happen tho.

A 4070 that costs as much as a 3080 and beats it by not a lot should be laughed at. Not sure what the market will do tho.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

I'll bet Jensen was behind this hare-brained idea to name the the 12gb card a 4080. He may be a brilliant engineer, but a lousy marketing guy. Good he's come to his senses and unlaunched the damn thing.

Disagree, he and Nvidia are great at marketing when they can convince people to buy $350 RTX 3050s over $250 RX 6600s that kick the RTX 3050's teeth in on performance by a 25-30% margin.

 

[Thunder 57]

Disagree, he and Nvidia are great at marketing when they can convince people to buy $350 RTX 3050s over $250 RX 6600s that kick the RTX 3050's teeth in on performance by a 25-30% margin.

It's almost like the movie "Idiocracy". Just look at the comments in the LTT video:

Spoiler: Link is here

Intel Intel more Intel

"I have never wanted Intel to succeed so bad. "

"Bro AMD is just synonym of disappointment "

"Please Intel

"

 

[DeathReborn]

It's almost like the movie "Idiocracy". Just look at the comments in the LTT video:

Spoiler: Link is here

Intel Intel more Intel

"I have never wanted Intel to succeed so bad. "

"Bro AMD is just synonym of disappointment "

"Please Intel

"

Jensen is the Brawndo marketing guy IRL.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

Surely the 4070ti will be a cut down AD103 die, and the full AD104 die (4080 12gb) will release as a 4070.

The ti/super moniker has been a sort of backdoor to the next tier up for a while, and really more of a mid-gen counter when AMD is feeling feisty and drops an unusually competitive card.

It's a little weird to think this stunt wasn't planned by NV. Any dunce could tell the naming of the cards/price tiers made absolutely no sense at all. The more cynical among us would point to the $900 12g making the $1600 4090 look like a damn good deal. The even more cynical among would point out how the 12g made the 3090 on down look like a damn good deal.

You sort of see why EVGA left the market if they had to put up with being jerked around by NV like this (forget the boxes, if NV reprices the 4070 lower AIBs will absolutely throw a fit and NV will tell them to pound sand).

 

[ZGR]

I think NV has been testing the waters and seeing if they can get away with this behavior.

Did average consumer know the difference between 3080 10GB and 12GB? We complained about 1060 3GB vs 6GB since they cut some cores on the 3GB but still called it a 1060.

 

[jpiniero]

Surely the 4070ti will be a cut down AD103 die, and the full AD104 die (4080 12gb) will release as a 4070.

Do I need to remind you what the full xx104 has been in the past? The 4070 is def going to be the cut AD104.

 

[JujuFish]

Do I need to remind you what the full xx104 has been in the past? The 4070 is def going to be the cut AD104.

Do I need to remind you that there has never been both an xx103 and xx104 die?

 

[jpiniero]

Do I need to remind you that there has never been both an xx103 and xx104 die?

Ah but there is. The GA103 is being used by the 3060 Ti as well as the 3080 Ti Laptop.

 

[Heartbreaker]

Surely the 4070ti will be a cut down AD103 die, and the full AD104 die (4080 12gb) will release as a 4070.

The ti/super moniker has been a sort of backdoor to the next tier up for a while, and really more of a mid-gen counter when AMD is feeling feisty and drops an unusually competitive card.

There is no such consistency in naming. The 3060 Ti, came out before the 3060 as the most recent instance of the Ti launching first.

4070 Ti and 4070 both being on the AD104 makes the most sense. Either one could release first, or they could release together. Since they were ready to launch it as a 4080, I'd bet on the 4070 Ti launching first, or together with the 4070.

It's a little weird to think this stunt wasn't planned by NV.

It's weirder to think NVidia planned to make a public mistake that leaves them with egg on their face, and has them compensating AIBs for work prepping boxes with the incorrect product name.

Are you claiming NVidia is really playing marketing chess when they look like bunglers cancelling a card, right before launch?

 

[JujuFish]

Ah but there is. The GA103 is being used by the 3060 Ti as well as the 3080 Ti Laptop.

The 3060Ti launched on GA104. A year and a half later, a 3060Ti version was made with excess laptop chips. Hardly relevant to this discussion.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

Are you claiming NVidia is really playing marketing chess when they look like bunglers cancelling a card, right before launch?

- 5d chess, in fact. If the 4080 12gg announce lead to more 4090, and far more importantly more Ampere 3xxx cards moving then whatever paltry sum NV has to pay for new cardboard boxes (they turn sand into magic thinking lightning rocks, they can pay for cardboard) was basically the cost of doing business.

And NV does not have egg on their faces to the general public.

"Responsive to public sentiment"

"We pushed back and they listened"

"Win for the little guy, we got the NV to release a 4070 for $699"

Based on purely anecdotal evidence from reddit, the above captures the general breadth of the audience, from slavish devotion to whatever NV marketing pinches out, to a silly self-empowerment message that 500 tweets somewhere pushed a massive multinational corporation to reprint some boxes go us, to even seeing a potential large price increase on the xx70 line as some sort of good thing.

NV marketing has done its work.

 

[gdansk]

Some truth to that too. Nvidia managed to frame anything less than $900 for the 4070 as an improvement. And they act like they are making a concession.

 

[Heartbreaker]

- 5d chess, in fact. If the 4080 12gg announce lead to more 4090, and far more importantly more Ampere 3xxx cards moving then whatever paltry sum NV has to pay for new cardboard boxes (they turn sand into magic thinking lightning rocks, they can pay for cardboard) was basically the cost of doing business.

And NV does not have egg on their faces to the general public.

"Responsive to public sentiment"

"We pushed back and they listened"

"Win for the little guy, we got the NV to release a 4070 for $699"

Based on purely anecdotal evidence from reddit, the above captures the general breadth of the audience, from slavish devotion to whatever NV marketing pinches out, to a silly self-empowerment message that 500 tweets somewhere pushed a massive multinational corporation to reprint some boxes go us, to even seeing a potential large price increase on the xx70 line as some sort of good thing.

NV marketing has done its work.

If you view every NVidia blunder as 5D chess, then they can't lose.

Plus, are you reading the same reddit:

[link removed]

Profanity (even when embedded links show it) is not allowed in the tech forums.

AT Mod Usandthem

 

[GodisanAtheist]

I think NV honestly sees themselves as above the fray. With an 80/20 marketshare (never mind prosumer and professional markets) with the most competitive AMD has been in over a decade, I legitimately think Nvidia has a bit of a god complex at this point and simply does not see itself subject to the pathetic meming of the masses. In their minds, they're really the only player in town, with AMD sort of keeping the yapping regulators at bay.


NV's message to its adoring fans and haters alike:

 

[Heartbreaker]

HWUB pricing and stock update.

TLDW: For 4090, Retailers indicate they were shipped significantly more stock than Ampere launch. It's depends on regional demand where sell outs happened. In USA they are mostly sold out (other than scalpers). There should be no stock shortage this time. No one should pay scalper prices for a 4090.

For last generation pricing, NVidia cards 3080 and below, are mostly still selling at or above MSRP, while AMD cards have significant discount below MSRP. It's strange that everything AMD is on sale and NVidia is just ignoring the AMD price drop, and is only concerned about clearing 3090's.

 

[MrTeal]

Are cards actually selling in volume at above MSRP? If so, that's wild given the glut and prices on the used market. 3070s are selling here for 400-450 CAD (~300-330 USD) when the 3070 FE is ~$700 tax in depending on where you are. Some people might be hesitant to buy a card that's been mined on, but with those kinds of prices it seems a no brainer.

 

[jpiniero]

Are cards actually selling in volume at above MSRP? If so, that's wild given the glut and prices on the used market. 3070s are selling here for 400-450 CAD (~300-330 USD) when the 3070 FE is ~$700 tax in depending on where you are. Some people might be hesitant to buy a card that's been mined on, but with those kinds of prices it seems a no brainer.

I'm assuming the above is talking about new and not used.

 

[Mopetar]

I honestly don't know. It could be that they are so why lower prices, or it could be NVidia not wanting to offer rebates so stores aren't going to cut prices and lose money in doing so. If the inventory on hand is low enough they may as well keep prices high and try to sell to consumers who want to buy new. There are still a lot of people who refuse to touch a used mining card, so there's definitely a market there.

 

[jpiniero]

GALAX GeForce RTX 4090 HOF is the first Ada GPU with dual 16-pin power connectors - VideoCardz.com

NVIDIA RTX 4090 for extreme overclocking New images shared by NordicHardware reveal the design of the flagship GALAX GeForce RTX 4090 GPU. The Hall of Fame series will soon get a new member, the RTX 4090 HOF which is the first known RTX 40 model to feature dual 16-pin power connectors. The card...

videocardz.com

4090 card coming out with TWO 16 pin connectors.

Cue the unlimited power memes...

 

[n0x1ous]

 

[Timmah!]

GALAX GeForce RTX 4090 HOF is the first Ada GPU with dual 16-pin power connectors - VideoCardz.com

NVIDIA RTX 4090 for extreme overclocking New images shared by NordicHardware reveal the design of the flagship GALAX GeForce RTX 4090 GPU. The Hall of Fame series will soon get a new member, the RTX 4090 HOF which is the first known RTX 40 model to feature dual 16-pin power connectors. The card...

videocardz.com

4090 card coming out with TWO 16 pin connectors.

Cue the unlimited power memes...

Thats really good only to chase overclocking records. Otherwise pointless product.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

I wonder If Nvidia wants to wait for N32's launch until they launch once more RTX 4080 12GB RTX 4070Ti 12GB.
At least we know why they unlauched It. It would have been hilarious If 4080 12GB cost the same as RX 7900 XT 20GB.

 

[Heartbreaker]

I wonder If Nvidia wants to wait for N32's launch until they launch once more RTX 4080 12GB RTX 4070Ti 12GB.
At least we know why they unlauched It. It would have been hilarious If 4080 12GB cost the same as RX 7900 XT 20GB.

This makes 4070 Ti pricing indefensible.

The 7900XT for that price has a bigger core die before you even include the 5 chiplets (and these aren't free), and almost double the memory. This isn't a fire sale either, AMD will be making a fair profit on these cards. Pretty sure the 7900 XT will absolutely crush 4070 Ti performance, probably even in Ray Tracing.

If the GPU market was rational, NVidia needs to drop 4070 Ti, by at least $200, but it isn't rational, and they likely won't. I expect it will come out at just $100 lower.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

This makes 4070 Ti pricing indefensible.

The 7900XT for that price has a bigger core die before you even include the 5 chiplets (and these aren't free), and almost double the memory. This isn't a fire sale either, AMD will be making a fair profit on these cards. Pretty sure the 7900 XT will absolutely crush 4070 Ti performance, probably even in Ray Tracing.

If the GPU market was rational, NVidia needs to drop 4070 Ti, by at least $200, but it isn't rational, and they likely won't. I expect it will come out at just $100 lower.

7900XT will be certainly a lot faster in raster, I am not sure If It will be faster even in RT.
4070Ti will certainly cost less than originally, not sure by how much.
$699 looks a bit too good considering RTX 4080 16GB still costs the same. As you said $799 looks pretty likely.