ADD/ADHD folks: any perspective from lifelong medication users?

[Lonbjerg]

When is it appropriate to go down the medication path? It seems most reasonable to do so if someone was born with a condition rather than it to be caused by external environmental factors. If it was caused by environmental factors, the logical thing to do is to rectify those factors.

With ADHD, there are two well researched etiologies involved. It could be either genetic or environmental. In terms of genetic, a specific polymorphism of the dopamine receptor, DRD4, as well as a polymorphism of the dopamine transporter, DAT, is highly correlated with ADHD behavior as well as novelty seeking behavior.

Environmental wise, today's high stimulation entertainment is a breeding ground for ADHD. Children are playing highly stimulating video games for hours on end. The internet feeds us an incredible amount of information and entertainment that requires very little attention span. These are also very addictive.

Studies show that repeated engagement of addictive behavior makes our prefrontal cortex less active, so we're less capable of directing our willpower to accomplish less exciting tasks that takes sustained attention. It also makes it more difficult to fruitfully carry out our plans and goals. These symptoms are the hallmark of ADHD.

So is the answer to use less internet/gaming? Perhaps, but it seems that we can work out our willpower as well. Meditation is often touted as a method of working out our brain's prefrontal cortex. Or you can just engage in just about any other task that requires willpower.

Lets keep to the real world okay...

 

[ShawnD1]

I've taken meds most of my adult life for ADD, but nothing has helped more than dropping beef and most dairy and wheat from my diet, and drinking lots of raw green shakes (packed with fruits and vegetables and other healthy cr@p). Since I've started that over a year ago, I haven't needed any meds for ADD and my focus is much better than ever.

I haven't taken drugs for any of those problems, but I noticed a significant mood improvement when I started putting spinach or arugula in my protein shakes. They taste bitter as hell, but I feel so much better. I tried doing it after Joe Rogan said he felt a lot better after drinking kale shakes. Kale, like arugula, is a dark green vegetable that tastes terrible.

 

[yhelothar]

Lets keep to the real world okay...

Yes, let's keep the science that directed doctors to prescribe amphetamines to kids out of the equation.

By educating yourself on the science behind ADHD, it allows you to make better choices on the treatment. Knowing how the brain system involved in sustaining attention interacts with the real world can allow you to make better decisions on regulating this brain system.

 

[Miramonti]

I haven't taken drugs for any of those problems, but I noticed a significant mood improvement when I started putting spinach or arugula in my protein shakes. They taste bitter as hell, but I feel so much better. I tried doing it after Joe Rogan said he felt a lot better after drinking kale shakes. Kale, like arugula, is a dark green vegetable that tastes terrible.

Spinach, kale, collard greens...they are some of the most nutritional veggies and we eat a lot of them. Taking the stems off kale and collards cuts down on the bitterness, but I find spinach pretty mild actually. We love arugula, which has sort of a nutty flavor, but it's usually expensive.

Try adding some fruit. For our shakes, in addition to fruit, we add cinnamon, fresh ginger, and lemons/limes for flavor enhancers, which are also great for you. Working out has been inconsistent lately, but diet and exercise definitely complement each other, so more power to you if you're on that track.

 

[yhelothar]

I haven't taken drugs for any of those problems, but I noticed a significant mood improvement when I started putting spinach or arugula in my protein shakes. They taste bitter as hell, but I feel so much better. I tried doing it after Joe Rogan said he felt a lot better after drinking kale shakes. Kale, like arugula, is a dark green vegetable that tastes terrible.

Kale and spinach have an incredible amount of vitamins and minerals, many which are important for the enzymatic reactions in your brain such as neurotransmitter production.

Protein/carb ratio also plays a huge role in this.

Protein contains all of the amino acids that serve as the precursors for your neurotransmitters. Carbs biases your blood concentration of these amino acids to be selective for tryptophan, the precursor of serotonin. High serotonin and lower catecholamines such as dopamine and NE would cause drowsiness and the "brain fog." Serotonin promotes rest and relaxation and the catecholamines help with attention and memory.

Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11897269

 

[Mixolydian]

And your kind of attitude of giving drugs to children makes me angry. Why not learn about other ways to combat these issues that dont require drugs? You know like changing diets and foods? We even have someone in this very thread who said that is what worked for him.

It makes you angry that parents are trying to help their kids be happy and successful? Doctors and parents don't just give their kids pills for the hell of it. Most parents out there will try just about anything before going down the medication route. For some kids, changing diet may work - but for many, it does not. You seem to think the answer is so simple and straightforward, when it's not. There is no one-size-fits-all solution to these types of issues. If meds are helping the kid, what's wrong with that?

 

[yhelothar]

It makes you angry that parents are trying to help their kids be happy and successful? Doctors and parents don't just give their kids pills for the hell of it. Most parents out there will try just about anything before going down the medication route. For some kids, changing diet may work - but for many, it does not. You seem to think the answer is so simple and straightforward, when it's not. There is no one-size-fits-all solution to these types of issues. If meds are helping the kid, what's wrong with that?

Unfortunately, the vast majority of doctors would use meds as a first and only option.
Psychiatrist's only role is to prescribe meds.

 

[Vdubchaos]

It makes you angry that parents are trying to help their kids be happy and successful? Doctors and parents don't just give their kids pills for the hell of it. Most parents out there will try just about anything before going down the medication route. For some kids, changing diet may work - but for many, it does not. You seem to think the answer is so simple and straightforward, when it's not. There is no one-size-fits-all solution to these types of issues. If meds are helping the kid, what's wrong with that?

Starting off meds early on a child's life = lifetime of drugs

Also, most people don't really think about the pros/cons......and think about the goals and risks involved.

There is some serious risks involved when taking these types of meds on DAILY basis. Is it WORTH risking the kids health over the issue that the medication might resolve.

Then there is the entire domino effect that many of today's meds can trigger on your health.

That's all up to a patient/parent to decide....but MANY don't even consider ANY of that.

 

[MonKENy]

get him off the drugs

My dad is a MFT, we HATE when we see kids on drugs. EVERY 5 YEAR OLD IS HYPER AND CRAZY jesus christ.

Go take parenting classes before you put a kid on meds. Thats not an attack at you at all. There are just things parents dont realize. I love our classes. They make so much more of a difference than meds do 80% of the time.

Even the Psychiatrists that we work with get frustrated when they see kids under 10 on meds. Its just not good to do. They arent fundamentally developed enough to hav chemical imbalances and yet they are on chemical altering meds. It makes me sick.

And this is coming from someone who takes meds now @ 30 yold as well

 

[MonKENy]

also is this your first child?

 

[Mixolydian]

Unfortunately, the vast majority of doctors would use meds as a first and only option.
Psychiatrist's only role is to prescribe meds.

And it's the parents' role to make an informed decission, not just blindly follow any doctor's advice.

Starting off meds early on a child's life = lifetime of drugs

Where do you get this from?

Also, most people don't really think about the pros/cons......and think about the goals and risks involved.

That's a major issue, in my book.

There is some serious risks involved when taking these types of meds on DAILY basis. Is it WORTH risking the kids health over the issue that the medication might resolve.

Again, parents need to weigh the pro's and con's.

Then there is the entire domino effect that many of today's meds can trigger on your health.

Such as?

That's all up to a patient/parent to decide....but MANY don't even consider ANY of that.

That's their choice. I personally have no sympathy for people who won't do the necessary research to make an informed decision.

 

[herm0016]

I was on ritilin, concerta, and one other ( at different times) from late elementery to highschool. I stopped taking them in college.

I am sure i would have done much better in college had I been on them, but I did not like they way it made me, like i had little personality. I think that it is best to use the drugs sparingly, but they do work. I belive is a whole approch to dealing with add/adhd. teaching the student and parents about the ways the brain learns, teaching them all about the symptoms, potental causes, Study habits, etc. also, diet, home life, stress, etc...

 

[rivan]

Thanks, all, for your comments - especially those of you that answered on topic. Sadly there doesn't seem to be much consensus.

So to try to cover the questions in the thread: he's not our first child. We eat pretty well, rarely eating out. Lots of veg and fruit. Drugs were not the first thing we discussed (or tried), nor are we now committed to a lifetime of them, but frankly his ability to keep up socially and academically is already being hampered by this. Right now he's struggling; he's a great kid and I'm going to do anything I can to help him.

For now, we're still in the trial phase of the drug. Our next pediatrician visit we'll be discussing diet and other alternatives for the longer term.

 

[blackdogdeek]

Good luck, op.

 

[Vdubchaos]

get him off the drugs

My dad is a MFT, we HATE when we see kids on drugs. EVERY 5 YEAR OLD IS HYPER AND CRAZY jesus christ.

Go take parenting classes before you put a kid on meds. Thats not an attack at you at all. There are just things parents dont realize. I love our classes. They make so much more of a difference than meds do 80% of the time.

Even the Psychiatrists that we work with get frustrated when they see kids under 10 on meds. Its just not good to do. They arent fundamentally developed enough to hav chemical imbalances and yet they are on chemical altering meds. It makes me sick.

And this is coming from someone who takes meds now @ 30 yold as well

x2

 

[Nintendesert]

Learn to spank your kid's ass and spare the drugs.

 

[rivan]

Good luck, op.

Thanks.

Learn to spank your kid's ass and spare the drugs.

Thanks for the sage advice. Spanking doesn't help my kid; I've tried that avenue and it just makes matters worse.

 

[Mixolydian]

Thanks, all, for your comments - especially those of you that answered on topic. Sadly there doesn't seem to be much consensus.

So to try to cover the questions in the thread: he's not our first child. We eat pretty well, rarely eating out. Lots of veg and fruit. Drugs were not the first thing we discussed (or tried), nor are we now committed to a lifetime of them, but frankly his ability to keep up socially and academically is already being hampered by this. Right now he's struggling; he's a great kid and I'm going to do anything I can to help him.

For now, we're still in the trial phase of the drug. Our next pediatrician visit we'll be discussing diet and other alternatives for the longer term.

Best of luck to you and your son.

 

[Vdubchaos]

Thanks for the sage advice. Spanking doesn't help my kid; I've tried that avenue and it just makes matters worse.

Can of ass whopping always did the work on me as a child. heck I still thank my father for doing so, I needed it!!!

But this day and age it's a bit different. And no, sensitive spanking doesn't do anything.

You literally have to leave marks on their ass so that they are reminded about the event for few days/week to come as they sit each and every time.

America disabled parents from giving children proper discipline......because handful of parents truly abused their children. Then they teach your kids in school about "how you parents can't touch you" and they literally laugh at your face.

Kind of like the entire terrorist thing. We lose freedom/rights int he name of terrorism. Let's be real here. 3000 people we lost on 9/11 is equivalent to 1 month of fatalities on the highways. I don't see our government making license laws tougher/improving driver education.

Same goes for Alcohol....Cigarettes etc.....all of which kill more Americans than entire HISTORY of "terrorism"

 

[Mixolydian]

Can of ass whopping always did the work on me as a child.

You obviously did not have ADHD.

 

[Vdubchaos]

So to try to cover the questions in the thread: he's not our first child. We eat pretty well, rarely eating out. Lots of veg and fruit. Drugs were not the first thing we discussed (or tried), nor are we now committed to a lifetime of them, but frankly his ability to keep up socially and academically is already being hampered by this. Right now he's struggling; he's a great kid and I'm going to do anything I can to help him.

For now, we're still in the trial phase of the drug. Our next pediatrician visit
we'll be discussing diet and other alternatives for the longer term.

Best of luck to you.

Remember. Some kids are not social and not very good in school. Just how it is. I have 4 kids and each and everyone is different in their own ways.

It's NATURAL and perfectly NORMAL.

Perhaps you set your expectations way too high?

 

[rivan]

Can of ass whopping

Worked for me, too.

Doesn't work for my kid and being overly sensitive isn't a problem for me.

 

[Vdubchaos]

You obviously did not have ADHD.

ADHD was none existent where I come from. There was no such a thing as learning disability. It was called "some people suck at learning/school". Some had the issue naturally and some perhaps had this disability.

There was no "special treatment" for either!!!

Everyone goes thru the same treatment and some will succeed and some will fail.

And we didn't have private companies that are in business of making money pushing/lobbying and inventing new diseases so that they can push as many drugs to people as possible to meet the unrealistic expectations of unsustainable Wall street model.



Think about it, we have Drugs and "disease" for just about every emotion human kind can have.

Sounds like a perfect business plan to me....and sure VERY few will get actual help.

There is NO magic button when it comes to dealing with your natural/normal human emotion. Pill will only fuck with your brain chemistry and probably makes the issue worse (down the road).

But I understand no one thinks long term now days.

Worked for me, too.

Doesn't work for my kid and being overly sensitive isn't a problem for me.

You are obviously doing something wrong. Talk to your father? But honestly I would suggest to not take the "can of ass whoopin" advice.

IT was just something I thru out there for the old timers that lived in a different age as a joke.

 

[ShawnD1]

You obviously did not have ADHD.

And you obviously didn't read your bible.

18 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:

19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;

20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.

21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

Whoever wrote the King James version sucks at translating. It starts with stubborn and rebellious then it jumps to assume he's a glutton and an alcoholic? wtf? How are those related? The person who wrote this shall be brought to the elders of his city, and all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die; so shall really bad translations put away from among you.

 

[rivan]

20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.

So I need to bring him to see the mayor?

...on it.