Adolf Hitler

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BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
Harvey

Great, I'll gladly pit my supposed moral shortcomings against your mental variety.

What makes you think I have any reverance toward a monster such as Hitler. I was simply presenting something to ponder. Do you disagree with my assessment of history? Had England crushed the rebellion in the colonies, do you think G.Washington would be regarded as a hero or a villain?
 

reitz

Elite Member
Oct 11, 1999
3,878
2
76
BoberFett, Washington might have been regarded as a traitor in that respect. It does not relate to Hitler, and his conquest of Europe, though.

Even during the war, Hitler was regarded as evil; once civilized people learned of his crimes against the Jews, public outcries in most countries were raised. Click on the link I posted to read a timeline of the Holocaust.

History is not necessarily written by the victor. Whether or not Germany won the war is irrelevant; opinions about Hitler were formed long before the war's end. He could not have controlled the entire world, and information about what went on in Germany and other occupied countries would have been made public regardless of the outcome. The free press enjoyed by many countries during that era would have assured it.

Statements such as yours do nothing more than prove ignorance of 20th century history, and the state of world politics at that time.

BTW, Harvey has you beat. Might as well just give in now and save yourself the embarassment.



there would be more, but I've had too much to drink to refute your arguments any further.
 

Virgo

Member
Jun 18, 2000
126
0
0
My grandfather is from Germany.I wonder if I have sadistic, evil and demented relatives in my family tree?I wonder if I am part Sadistic?What do YOU think? hmmmm.....
 

nickdakick

Platinum Member
Jun 27, 2000
2,484
0
0
Reading this thread I was constantly shaking my head ! How come, most of the people really don't know the facts of a subject they're writing about or don't even care about getting informed at least basically ?
 

DABANSHEE

Banned
Dec 8, 1999
2,355
0
0
Exactly, look at JaaDee's post about Rossevelt, he has no idea. Rossevelt was about the best leader the US had. His 'New Deal' pulled the US out of the depression by its boot straps & help to prepare the US for war. He also reppealled prohibition, which was one of the most destructive peices of legislation ever - afterall it was prohibition which destroyed thousands of old family owned brewers & borbon distillers across the US & also gave the mafia the chance to move up in the world, from its origins of extorting local Italian owned businesses.

Because of the Nuetrality act & the isolationist Republican congress Roosevelt could do virtually nothing about what was happening in Europe & just about every bill of his to improve the US military
(which at that time was smaller than even countries like Greece, Finland, Yugoslavia etc) was blocked by the isolationist congress. The only way he was able to get voted in for a 3rd term was by agreeing to all the isolationist demands of congress. But even then he helped the British every way he could by acts of trickery such as exchanging 50 near obsolete destroyers for airbases in the Azores. Which gave the UK more escort ships for the convoys & freed up British patrol aircraft for other uses as American partrol aircraft would then be patrolling the skys arround the Azores. He also gave American protection to all ships in or near American waters which meant the US Atlantic fleet could then attack U-boats (which they did) even though they were still nuetral, this was then codified under the Atlantic treaty. He also introduced the lend-lease bill so that the US could lease American manufactured arms & supplies to any democracy under attack from a dictatorship (that was to get arround the nuetrality act) so then the US was sending thousands of planes & tanks to Britain & its Commonwealth allies, which help to save the Suez Canal from Rommels Afrika Korp (& all while the US was nuetral).

But the most important thing he did was advance 'new deal' resources to help the US prepare for war under the guise of employement programs. So huge aircraft factories were built in areas of high unemployement using federal aid money & federal loans. Plus under utilised autoplants were converted to tank manufacturing (an example is the Buick plant that made M3 & M5 light tanks with twin Caddilac engines & automatic torque converter drives, which was very popular with crews because of its ease of use & drivability). Plus we mustn't forget the army act back in 1940, where over a period of less than a year he turned the US which had one of the smallerst armies in the world (it then ranked 30th), for a developed nation, to having the 2ND biggest army in the world (other than the USSR), & all while the US was still nuetral.

I shudder to think what may have occurred to the world if Roosevelt had not won that election in 1940.

BTW, whats so arrogant about standing for 4 terms? after all if the people don't want him they can always vote for someone else, but they loved him. The reaction to his death in 1945 was untold, the US mourned like no country had ever mourned that day. Also, maybe he did hide the facts concerning his polio injuries, but you have to understand the culture of the day. There were no anti-discrimination laws than, atitudes were different - I'm sure everyone who had polio injuries back in those days, hid it as much as possible. Plus there was the respect he had from the media, in those times the media just didn't make a noise over things lkie that, so its not as if he actively stoped the media mentioning his polio, they just did it out of respect.
 

DABANSHEE

Banned
Dec 8, 1999
2,355
0
0
Exactly, look at JaaDee's post about Rossevelt, he has no idea. Rossevelt was about the best leader the US had. His 'New Deal' pulled the US out of the depression by its boot straps & help to prepare the US for war. He also reppealled prohibition, which was one of the most destructive peices of legislation ever - afterall it was prohibition which destroyed thousands of old family owned brewers & borbon distillers across the US & also gave the mafia the chance to move up in the world, from its origins of extorting local Italian owned businesses.

Because of the Nuetrality act & the isolationist Republican congress Roosevelt could do virtually nothing about what was happening in Europe & just about every bill of his to improve the US military
(which at that time was smaller than even countries like Greece, Finland, Yugoslavia etc) was blocked by the isolationist congress. The only way he was able to get voted in for a 3rd term was by agreeing to all the isolationist demands of congress. But even then he helped the British every way he could by acts of trickery such as exchanging 50 near obsolete destroyers for airbases in the Azores. Which gave the UK more escort ships for the convoys & freed up British patrol aircraft for other uses as American partrol aircraft would then be patrolling the skys arround the Azores. He also gave American protection to all ships in or near American waters which meant the US Atlantic fleet could then attack U-boats (which they did) even though they were still nuetral, this was then codified under the Atlantic treaty. He also introduced the lend-lease bill so that the US could lease American manufactured arms & supplies to any democracy under attack from a dictatorship (that was to get arround the nuetrality act) so then the US was sending thousands of planes & tanks to Britain & its Commonwealth allies, which help to save the Suez Canal from Rommels Afrika Korp (& all while the US was nuetral).

But the most important thing he did was advance 'new deal' resources to help the US prepare for war under the guise of employement programs. So huge aircraft factories were built in areas of high unemployement using federal aid money & federal loans. Plus under utilised autoplants were converted to tank manufacturing (an example is the Buick plant that made M3 & M5 light tanks with twin Caddilac engines & automatic torque converter drives, which was very popular with crews because of its ease of use & drivability). Plus we mustn't forget the army act back in 1940, where over a period of less than a year he turned the US which had one of the smallerst armies in the world (it then ranked 30th), for a developed nation, to having the 2ND biggest army in the world (other than the USSR), & all while the US was still nuetral.

I shudder to think what may have occurred to the world if Roosevelt had not won that election in 1940.

BTW, whats so arrogant about standing for 4 terms? after all if the people don't want him they can always vote for someone else, but they loved him. The reaction to his death in 1945 was untold, the US mourned like no country had ever mourned that day. Also, maybe he did hide the facts concerning his polio injuries, but you have to understand the culture of the day. There were no anti-discrimination laws than, atitudes were different - I'm sure everyone who had polio injuries back in those days, hid it as much as possible. Plus there was the respect he had from the media, in those times the media just didn't make a noise over things lkie that, so its not as if he actively stoped the media mentioning his polio, they just did it out of respect.
 

reitz

Elite Member
Oct 11, 1999
3,878
2
76
Excellent post, DABANSHEE. Do they really teach that much about American history in Australia?
 

SlickWilly

Banned
Oct 30, 1999
163
0
0
There is ONE good thing about Hitler. He believed the superior race was blonde hair and blue eyes, 6" tall.

I have blonde hair and blue eyes and I'm 6" tall. I'm good lookin too.
 

EmperorNero

Golden Member
Jun 2, 2000
1,911
0
0
I disagree w/ jaydee about roosevelt being an overrated president. he handled two of the stressful events in our country since the civil war. BUT I also disagree w/ anybody who praises him too much - yes, he did stop the depression but at the cost of our national debt, and now almost every president ever since added to it. now we are at what? 1 trillion?

reitz:

1) "crytal night" was not the first sytematic measures, like encarta said (and probably many other reputable encyclopedias), the nazis started their campaign against jews when they got to power. and you said earlier that crystal night took place in '38, that was several years after nazis came to power so it was not the first measure against jews.

2) I can't really give you any sources that you can read to support my point that the US didn't do anything at first - it came from the word of mouth - but those ppl are qualified. my 10th grade teacher majored in history, so you can't really blame me if I hold his words over yours. also, I could be wrong, but I THINK my 9th grade teacher said the same thing, I'm not sure though so I guess that evidence can't be used. and lastly, there was a man who was actually a prisonor of auschwitz (sp?), he told us that the US did indeed ignore it at first. he seems knowledgable, and since the holocaust was part of his history, I'm sure he studied in depth about it so again, I would hold his words over yours.

and since you're going to attack me since I don't have any sources you can read (I haven't looked thoroughly yet) but keep in mind most of our sources are american sources. like I said earlier, my history text book only glossed over the trail of tears in a dinky paragraph, while they gave a whole unit to hitler's atrocities.

to sum it up:
- at least two people who either majored in history or actually experienced the holocaust have told me that the US didn't do anything at first. don't interpret that as "the US didn't do anything at all." their words holds more credibility than yours.
- contrary to what you said, history is written by the victor. do you think the victor will admit to it being wrong? or would they rather point out the attrocities of the loser to preserve its reputation? so you won't see too many easily accessible sources that will point out the US ignored the persecution of jews in the beginning unless you search hard or study in depth of the issue (such as ppl who majors in history - my teacher).
 

biohazard2

Banned
May 1, 2000
872
0
0
the devil himself. I can't think of a more ruthless and evil person ever. I wish he would have lived to stand trial for his crimes, and PAID the price... but instead he took the easy way out.
 

Nater21

Senior member
Jun 20, 2000
330
0
0
Abanshee-

For your information, the NEW DEAL did nothing to pull us out of the depression. It was a poor government attempt. WWII and WWII alone pulled us out of the depression. It created many new jobs and it began our countries military-industrial complex that has led to our becomming a dominant country both economically as well as militarily.

I am not commenting on FDR's abilities at all, all I am saying is that the NEW DEAL, which may have been a good idea in theory DID NOT WORK.

I want to see some proof that anything but world war 2 got us out of the depression. Until you offer something. That is my opinion.

-Nater21
 

Nater21

Senior member
Jun 20, 2000
330
0
0
Abanshee-

For your information, the NEW DEAL did nothing to pull us out of the depression. It was a poor government attempt. WWII and WWII alone pulled us out of the depression. It created many new jobs and it began our countries military-industrial complex that has led to our becomming a dominant country both economically as well as militarily.

I am not commenting on FDR's abilities at all, all I am saying is that the NEW DEAL, which may have been a good idea in theory DID NOT WORK.

I want to see some proof that anything but world war 2 got us out of the depression. Until you offer something. That is my opinion.

-Nater21
 

Nater21

Senior member
Jun 20, 2000
330
0
0
One more thing

emperor nero-

these systematic measurements you refer to in no way warrant joining a war. The systematic measurements during the mid 30s taken against the jews, consisted of registering the jews, making them wear stars of David, and sometimes moving them all into ghettos. Also discriminating against them. There were no mass killings prior to 1940.
 

Nater21

Senior member
Jun 20, 2000
330
0
0
One more thing

emperor nero-

these systematic measurements you refer to in no way warrant joining a war. The systematic measurements during the mid 30s taken against the jews, consisted of registering the jews, making them wear stars of David, and sometimes moving them all into ghettos. Also discriminating against them. There were no mass killings prior to 1940.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
Reitz

<< BoberFett, Washington might have been regarded as a traitor in that respect. It does not relate to Hitler, and his conquest of Europe, though. >>

No, but it does relate to my point that history is written by the victor, which Harvey was so quick to dismiss.

<< Even during the war, Hitler was regarded as evil; >>

Evil is a very subjective term.

<< once civilized people learned of his crimes against the Jews, public outcries in most countries were raised. Click on the link I posted to read a timeline of the Holocaust. >>

Ouch, did you just call everyone who lived in Axis countries uncivilized? A majority of Germans didn't seem to think he was evil, unless of course they did think so and chose to follow him. Either way I'd be insulted if I were German.

<< History is not necessarily written by the victor. Whether or not Germany won the war is irrelevant; opinions about Hitler were formed long before the war's end. >>

But had Hitler gone on to finish his dream of world domination, those opinions would be burned along with the rest of the books on the Nazi banned list.

<< He could not have controlled the entire world, >>

Your opinion.

<< and information about what went on in Germany and other occupied countries would have been made public regardless of the outcome. The free press enjoyed by many countries during that era would have assured it. >>

This only happened because Hitler was stopped. Again I'll point out that if Hitler hadn't made so many errors and had won, there would be no freedom of the press to print information about such atrocities.

<< Statements such as yours do nothing more than prove ignorance of 20th century history, and the state of world politics at that time. >>

Somehow you're able to gauge my understanding of history based on a couple short senteces? You're almost as much of a blowhard as Harvey.

<< BTW, Harvey has you beat. Might as well just give in now and save yourself the embarassment. >>

The only place he has me beat is arrogance.

<< there would be more, but I've had too much to drink to refute your arguments any further. >>

Well, that would explain your feeble arguments.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
Just to reaffirm my position, I think Hitler was a monster. I only meant to bring some discussion to this rather trite thread that consisted only of &quot;me too's&quot; with such simplistic answers as &quot;He was evil.&quot;
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,218
5,797
126
Just to add some comments of WW2. First, Britain and Frances biggest errors was not being prepared for war. It wasn't because they didn't do anything, it was that they couldn't do anything. Germany simply was too powerful for them to attack after Germany's invasion of Chzeckoslovakia(sp), which was when they probably should have gone to war. To illustrate their ill preparedness, just look how fast France collapsed when Hitler attacked. During when France was attacked, Britain did send troops to Dunkirk, where they were forced to retreat back to Britain in what is one of the greatest feats of WW2.

Second, if Hitler didn't balk at the thought of invading Britain, we'd all probably be speaking some kind of bastardized form of German right now! Without Britain, Africa would soon fall into Axis hands leaving the Soviet Union as the last barrier to the Americas. Without the Western Front, Hitler would have more troops to use against the Soviet Union as well, making success all the more possible. Axis global domination was certainly possible, Thank God that it failed!

 

Hyper99

Banned
Jun 14, 2000
776
0
0
It funny how we even feared soviet union even till theseday. afraid they would start another world war again like german did. the communist way of society is that government own everything and all is equally which is suck suck. china is a communism country where all is poor as crap my grandma hated it. it a stinking rotten country. they were being controlled by soviet union as usual. it just as bad as german being run by a dictator. anyway these chinese are the poorest people on the planet, exactly like the starving african. not that I have anything against them but I wouldn't want to live there ever again. the USA for example don't have any of these problem we are pretty much well fed everyday and have nothing to worry about except AIDS and getting into Wrecks. if you compared nazi to communist they are very similar, borrowed ideas from hitler.
 

Hyper99

Banned
Jun 14, 2000
776
0
0
sandorski how do do know that god had intervened?
I say it just fate that brought us here today or should i say luck is on the U.S. side? religious people is alway being too thankful, heck even pray to god constantly begging for forgiveness etc there never a time they thank themselve or even look at themselve in the mirror and realize the great deed was being done by no other then no one but us human being, god doesn't do anything period. i say they need to wake up to reality and shape the world as you want, you are your own god.
No one is making you doing anything, no one is judging you, no one is controlling you, we do what we want and it not god who is judging us
it the law of the human races that you have to abide by it. we are already god like, there is no one greater then us, yes we control life
period for those religious freak need to wake up someday and smell the fresh air around them.
 

EmperorNero

Golden Member
Jun 2, 2000
1,911
0
0
nater, when encarta said &quot;systematic measures&quot; it includes any and all atrocities done to the jews. the star of david was meant to humiliate them (although I think according to Anne Frank's Diary that some ppl wore it for pride - either that diary or some other accounts). that alone does not justify going to war w/ germany, but there were other things than that. one of them includes making the jews leave the country and kicking them out of their homes and stealing their possessions. and the US knew about some of those things done to the jews but decided to turn away.
 

reitz

Elite Member
Oct 11, 1999
3,878
2
76
BoberFett, do you honestly believe that Germany could have taken over the United States, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand?
 

Hyper99

Banned
Jun 14, 2000
776
0
0
it is possible ritz if the united state had sat there just even a year longer...
most likely german would rule the world if U.S. had not existed...
the U.S. don't care about Jews they think like this, what is saving their lives going to get them? Nothing right? just let it be their problem until the german become a bothersome let say England then they begin to slowly pull troop in there but it was almost too late.
this new foundland America actually gave hope to those who want independence and freedom from oppressive country and destructive as well.

 

DABANSHEE

Banned
Dec 8, 1999
2,355
0
0
Actually Sandorski Britain &amp; France's military were bigger, relative to German forces back during the Sudatenland incident than they were in 41 when Germany's re-building of the military was starting to reached its peak. Even in 1939 the French army was bigger than Germany's army.

BTW, both when Hitler re-militarised the Rhineland back in 36 &amp; occupied the rest of Czechoslovakia after overunning its defences with the conivance of Chamberlain in 1938, the Germany high command had planned coups to overthrow the Nazi's, if the west (UK &amp; France) had stood up to Hitler.

Also the Czechs had very good defences, arms &amp; a modern well equiped army, which was equal to the German army in 1938, but because of the appeasement policies of Britain &amp; France, Czechoslovakia was forced to give up the Sudetenland (the Western borderlands) which meant their defensive lines were overun so they were defenceless &amp; could do nothing when Hitler occupied the rest of Czechoslovakia.

 

jaydee

Diamond Member
May 6, 2000
4,500
3
81


<< Rossevelt was about the best leader the US had. >>



I'll take Lincon any day over Roosevelt.



<< His 'New Deal' pulled the US out of the depression by its boot straps &amp; help to prepare the US for war. >>



LMAO!!!! You funny man, you funny, funny man! You don't have a freaking clue do you?

Nater21 took the words out of my mouth. NEW DEAL DID NOTHING. WWII got us out of the Depression. Reitz: I am unaware of any document that shows the U.S. can only enter a war if they are attacked first which you seem to be hinting.



<< The only way he was able to get voted in for a 3rd term was by agreeing to all the isolationist demands of congress >>



Very good! Thats the first thing you've said right! OHHHH, so thats why. He wanted to be popular. Millions of Jews are dying in Europe, Chzechs and Poles and Dutch and French and Norweigien and Belgium people are being overrun at an unthinkable rate by an insane German maniac, but FDR would've lost his popularity had he done something about it. It tells me all I need to know about him.



<< Also, maybe he did hide the facts concerning his polio injuries, but you have to understand the culture of the day. >>



MABEY? The guy was dying, and did die shortly after and you say: Well mabey he hid facts. Their way no way he could have completed his 4th term and as history shows he didn't come remotely close.
 

jaydee

Diamond Member
May 6, 2000
4,500
3
81
Furthermore:



<< The only way he was able to get voted in for a 3rd term was by agreeing to all the isolationist demands of congress >>





<< BTW, whats so arrogant about standing for 4 terms? after all if the people don't want him they can always vote for someone else, but they loved him >>



So lemme get this straight. He was so popular and loved that the only way to get re-elected was to agree on isolationism even if was the wrong thing in order to get his 3rd term? And then lie about his health to get his 4th. What kind of logic is that? Seems like he was playing the crowd and capitalizing on a bad situation to me

And you wanna know whats so arrogant about running for 3rd and 4th terms? George Washington set a precedent. That precedent was running for 2 terms and 2 terms only for the presidency. FDR took that precedent set by our founders and followed by every other president to date, and pissed all over it. There was a reason for 2 terms that everyone else understood but I guess he thought he was above it.



<< The reaction to his death in 1945 was untold, the US mourned like no country had ever mourned that day >>



Yeah the same happened when Stalin died. I've seen many videos that showed the whole U.S.S.R mourn for him. I'm not comparing the two I'm just pointing out that feeling sorry for someone who died does't mean he the worlds best president and he did nothing wrong. If I was around then I probably mourned too. That doesn't mean I would have voted for him or liked him as president.




<< jaydee, do you have anything to back that up? >>



My mistake. I was unaware of the American history ignorance in this thread. Thanks for reminding me.



<< I don't know about you, but when I post I like to have some evidence supporting my opinions >>



Since when does OPINIONS need evidence? If I had 100% facts to my disposal it probably wouldn?t opinion would it?



<< I shudder to think what may have occurred to the world if Roosevelt had not won that election in 1940. >>



Ummm? yeah, well when you are done shuddering I advise you to read up some more on FDR before posting, be LOGICAL in your posting, and finally don?t say that someone has no clue when you don?t know what your talking about.
 
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