Adolf Hitler

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Capn

Platinum Member
Jun 27, 2000
2,716
0
0


<< and fsuk you for saying that china sucks... its not like america is any better >>



Then what the hell are you doing here?
 

Tiger

Platinum Member
Oct 9, 1999
2,312
0
0
Hey Chaz Juarez, cfredc

If you want to flame each other start another thread, quit crapping on this one!:|

 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81


<< the snotty bastards who call themselves americans >>

I would imagine that it's easier to remain humble when the majority of your citizens live in absolute poverty.
 

EmperorNero

Golden Member
Jun 2, 2000
1,911
0
0
chazjurez,



<< hey cfredc, blow me, pip-squeak.

The comments were directed to hyper99, you pinko supporting, freedom hating commie.
>>



wow, such pathetic crap. cfredc was right - no need flaming him off b/c he refuted your reply to hyper99.



<< anyway, if you are mexican (latino, etc) china is a hell lot better than mexico.... get off you uppity notion that america is the only and will be the only superpower in the world and does no wrong.... there are other countries in the future (such as china) that will rise above the snotty bastards who call themselves americans >>


in

in a way, cfredc is right - china is challenging us as the world superpower, although we're still way ahead, they are catching up pretty quick. as for mexico and china, china can kick mexico's ass.
 

TechieZero

Senior member
Mar 21, 2000
241
0
0
In the end---desperately frantic. His last recorded words were from a Soviet soldier as Hitler screamed &quot;Stiener! Where is Stiener?!?!&quot;
 

jaydee

Diamond Member
May 6, 2000
4,500
3
81


<< Didn't your mother ever teach you that you can't always have what you want? >>



Yeah but I'm not the president of the United States. I'm getting at why he compromised his true feelings about the war to just go along with congress for the heck of it. Either your wrong or FDR was worse than I thought.
 

DABANSHEE

Banned
Dec 8, 1999
2,355
0
0
No FDR just knew that the US was bound to be dragged into the coming world war &amp; knew he had to do something about it for America's sake. Whether he had to go arround the wishes of the American people &amp; Congress was irrelevant. He did the right thing in getting the US prepared for war.

You see the problem with all revisionist History is they implant todays slant on the past &amp; it doesnt work.

Just like the way you have been rubbishing the 'New Deal' shows you have no idea what the Great Depression was all about - More or less overnight a quarter of the population lost its jobs. Do you know what that would be like, there was no welfare in those days. Plus they couldn't live off their savings as most of the banks had collasped so their savings were gone. Because of the high umeployement rates of nearly 30% demand for products drop rapidly, consumerism was dead. So wages of the 70% employed were cut in half overnight - &amp; that included public servants, because tax revenues had dropped so far the govt had no money to pay them. Consequently just about everyone lost their mortgages, as loan sharks purchased the land deeds from the collasped banks &amp; foreclosed on everyone who couldnt pay their mortgages because they had either lost their jobs or had their wages cut in half. Then they were forced to rent their own houses back. Farmers also couldnt pay their bank loans so their farms were confiscated by the banks creditors (seeing as most of the banks collasped) so farmers had to rent their own farms back. So farmers started to overcrop in the hope of making more money but just created a dustbowl from the soil erosion. But what was the point, demand had drop so low, that prices had dropped to levals lower than what it would be to cover costs. So produce went rotten on the feilds while people starved in the streets.

Millions of Americans took to the road looking for work, but their was no work. Riots were happening everywhere. Even the most conservative of people, war veterans were rioting in the hope of getting their pension payouts early, as they needed it 'now', they just couldnt wait till they were 65. Macarthur, then Army cheif even had troops fire on the war veterans in washington itself.

Hoover thought if he just left everything to the market place things would work out, but nothing he did worked, the capitalist system had virtually colllasped.

Rossevelts first goal after being elected was to bring confidence back to the banking sector. He had a bank holiday declared in March, till congress could pass the emergency banking act to stop the runs on all the banks that were left. This law allowed govt inspectors to go over all the banks financers &amp; only those in good financial state were allowed to reopen Within a few days half the nation's banks reopened These banks held 90% of the countries deposits this ended much of the nations panic. Then more legislation was introduced giving the govt power to regulate loans &amp; they created a depositer insurance scheme for banks. A sheme was introduce to lend money at low interest to people paying mortgages.

Farmers were then payed to leave some land vacent to alleviate soil erosion &amp; to encourage them to stay on the land.

But the main aim of the 'New Deal' was to put millions of unemployed to work via federal loans - millions of trees were re-planted, dams &amp; other great infrastucture projects were started. Thousands of schools, roads, parks, court houses &amp; bridges were built too. Electricity was finally provided to many at low prices because of the dams (Tennessee, for example). These WPA schemes employed nearly 10 million people &amp; all in the first 100 days of the 'New Deal'.

The new Social Security Act provided pensions for the elderly &amp; an insurance scheme for workers, so if they became unemployed they were covered for a small amount of time. It also provided for the blind &amp; the disabled &amp; for needy children. This act alone alleviated the suffereing of millions of Americans at little cost (The deficit increased more in the last 3 years of Reagan's reign than it had in the previous 100 years combined - even his own tresurer admitted that when interviewed on telly)

Also many federal housing projects were started, to alleviate homelessness &amp; create jobs..

Most scholars agree that the New Deal releived much economic distress &amp; bought about a large measure of economic recovery. Also most agree that tit preserved the essentials of the American Free Enterprise systems (most of the schemes were actually privately administed through federal loans, which was how many of the great armenents factories were built. Ford built thousands of aircraft in one of their under utilised car plants using Federal loans).

Now the New Deal did not pull the US out of the Depression alone. It was a combination of the New Deal &amp; WWII that did that. But it releived much economic hardship &amp; gave Americans faith in the democratic system at a time when other nations hit by the depression turned to dictators. This was perhaps its greatest acheivement. Plus it also helped America prepare for war.

Putting your own post Freidmanite/post Reaganite slant on the new deal just doesnt work JayDee as the alternatives we have now just werent right for those times - Hoover tried, but it only made things worse.

BTW JayDee why was it arragant for Roosevelt to stand for 4 terms. Surely in a democracy its a precedent or a congressional admendment that stops the people from choosing the leader they want, that's most arrogant of all. So obviously you beleive the Americans of that era should of had no right to elect Rossevelt in 1940 &amp; 1944. Sounds dictatorial to me.
 

DABANSHEE

Banned
Dec 8, 1999
2,355
0
0
BTW JayDee, the Manhatten project did not effect the war what so ever, except maybe lengthen it by 3 months.

Arround August '95, the British Home Office &amp; Foreign office, released many 1000s' of documents (classified under the official secrets act),pertaining to the war, as their 50 year status had expired - There maybe many other secrets about the war, we have yet to find out about, as apparently there are many other documents that were classified for 100 years.

What happened was that when the Germans invaded Poland, the Russians moved in &amp; took the Eastern half - Mad Adulf &amp; Uncle Joe had got Ribbentrop &amp; Molotov to work this senario out, when they were together signing their little non-agression pact, earlier on. After the invasion the Poles formed a 'Goverment in Exile' in France, which later moved to the UK. The Western allies recognised them as the official Polish goverment. Meanwhile the Russians had made their own Polish Communist cronies form their own Polish Goverment in Eastern Poland, which they had intergrated into USSR as another Soviet Republic (well what was left of Eastern Poland after they gave a bit to the Belarus SSR, &amp; another bit to the Ukrainian SSR). Well after Operation Barbarossa (the German invasion of Russia), these Polish communists were forced to run back to Uncle Joe in Moscow, &amp; form their own Polish 'Goverment in Exile' in Russia proper. So now we had 2 Polish Goverments in exile.

Well any way, during their many pow-wows together, FDR, Winnie &amp; Uncle Joe finally agreed that the post war Polish Goverment should include representitives from both Polish pretenders, in London &amp; Lublin. By arround the Summer of '44 Hitler's panzers were in full retreat &amp; there were already Soviet T34s' rolling into the suburbs of Warsaw, across the Vistula from Warsaw proper. The Russian radio stations were beaming across the frontier telling the Poles to revolt, to speed up their liberation from the Nasis'. The Polish exiles in London saw their chance &amp; ordered the Home Army in Poland to revolt against the German occupiers. A funny thing then happen, the Red Army all of a sudden ground to a halt at the Vistula, thereby giving the Germans a free hand to crush the Warsaw Uprising. Once the Uprising was over the Russian T34 tanks then moved forward again &amp; 'liberated' Warsaw. Stalin then 'forgot' about his agreament, &amp; had his Lublin exiles form a goverment on their own. When some of the London exiles flew over to join them, having no Home Army to protect them, they promptly dissappeared. Winnie &amp; FDR (&amp; later Truman) were enraged.

Meanwhile in the Pacific, things weren't going well for the Japanese, &amp; by the early Summer of '45 &amp; the German defeat, they knew there time was up. So the Imperial Goverment started to send out surrender feelers to the allies, via the Russian &amp; Swiss Embassies (Russian did not enter the war with Japan till August) - this was 3 months before Hiroshima. They included only one condition amongst their surrender terms - that they be aloud to keep their Emporer. These were rejected, even though (as the secret war ministry documents show) the US had already decided that the Japanese could keep their Emporer after the war; as it would then be less likely for a communist Goverment to form there. Seeing as Stalin had agreed years earlier, that he would enter the war against Japan, 3 months after Germany surrended, you can see why Truman &amp; Churchill were so concern. Especially when you considered what happened with Poland.

Well any way beacause of what Stalin did to Poland, Churchill &amp; Truman decided to show that they had 'Mojo' to equal Stalins red Army 'Mojo' (you got to remember that the Western Armies were nothing compared to the Red Army then - to every German Soldier fighting the Western allies, there were another 10 fighting on the Eastern front - there was no way even D-Day would have been successful if the Russians werent tying down so many German men. Plus the allies had nothing to compare with the 1000s' of Russian T34, KV &amp; JS tanks, other than almost obsolete Shermans, &amp; much smaller numbers too.). So Churchill obliterated Dresden with his 'Mojo' - RAF's Bomber Command, &amp; Truman was advised by Stimson or paterson (I forget which) to reject Japans surrender feelers, so he could demenstrate his 'Mojo', through nuking Hiroshima &amp; Nagasaki.

The War Ministry papers also show that the nukes, were not even the main reason for their unconditional surrender to the US, but just a face saving way out, as the Russians had by now entered the war against Japan &amp; Marshal Zukhov's Red armies had just Blitzkreiged the whole of Manchuria &amp; Korea, &amp; also crossed over &amp; taken Sakhalin &amp; the Kuril Islands, so were now within sight of Japan itself. After taking 2 million Japanese prisoners, including over 150 generals &amp; 'liberating' more land from Japanese occupation than the Americans, Australians &amp; British had in the previous 4 years of war. There was one thing the Japanese top brass feared more than unconditional surrender to the Americans, &amp; that was an invasion by the Red Army.

Another swaying facter in the droping of the bomb was that it cost 2 billion to develop, &amp; Truman was worried what the publics reaction would be if the secret of the bomb (&amp; its cost) ever came out, without him actually using it. Afterall news of the Baatam death march, etc, had just filtered through to the American public in the preceeding months.

War is war, &amp; the reality is there's no rules in war but the rules of the victors. Afterall Dresden, Hiroshima &amp; Nagasaki was just as bad as any of the 'war crimes' of the Nasis or the Nips - mind you, revenge is sweet.

Thats why I dont beleive Japan should have to pay compensation for war crimes (such as what the British veterans &amp; the Korean woman want), otherwise the US should have to pay compensation for the nukes, &amp; the Brits for Dresden etc. Also it was up to the goverments of the day to set reparation claims when Japans signed formal peace traeties with the 48 allied nations in '52. In other words the Korean Women &amp; the British veterans etc should really be now sueing their own goverments now &amp; not Japan.

BTW, this is not revisionist history as I'm not trying to put todays slant on past events, using modern attitudes. As I said before this all came out when the British war ministry released many documents that were classified under the 50 year rule.


 

jaydee

Diamond Member
May 6, 2000
4,500
3
81


<< BTW JayDee, the Manhatten project did not effect the war what so ever, except maybe lengthen it by 3 months. >>



No it didn't I didn't say it did. I said we held the trump card (if we needed it.) It was obvious we didn't need it by 1943 as USSR had stopped German advances and Adolf was running out of fresh troops. (A country of that size can only go so far.)



<< BTW JayDee why was it arragant for Roosevelt to stand for 4 terms. >>



I thought I already told you.

I'll really get into it tomarrow cause its late but it looks to me that your bunching a whole crapload of unrelated facts with a few stretchers.
 
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