Adolf Hitler

[Yeeny]

That crazy SOB still has influence on people 55 years after his death...When will it end or will it ever.

1luckymf: Hopefully we never forget. We have learned alot from others mistakes, and mistakes are where we get the knowledge not to let something like this happen again. So while it may get people worked up and arguing, at least they are talking about it. And that is the only way to move forward, and make sure this never happens again.

 

[Tominator]

DEBANSHEE I agree 100%!

 

[ChazJuarez]

Wow, this is a pretty good thread!

 

[Pretender]

Note...this opinion is only being posted because I don't want to be like all the people who have the exact same opinion. OBVIOUSLY he was evil. Do we need to reiterate it 70 times?

What do I think about Hitler? I think he was a genius. Think about it: He's done what most people only dream of: He's become famous, will be talked about for hundreds of years to come, and fulfilled his life's dream of killing millions of jews. I'm not saying he was right, but it is a pretty amazing feat.

 

[403Forbidden]

Anyone ever hear of the Stanford Prison Experiment?

That hiler sh!t could happen today in America

 

[reitz]

403, was that a psychology experiment conducted by Phil Zombardo? The one I'm thinking of is an experiment where he took two sets of volunteers and put them in a "prison". One set were the wardens, the other the prisoners. The experiment had to be called off because of the way the "wardens" were treating the "prisoners". Most of what I know about it is that it is often used as an example of what type of psychology experiment not to do.

Is that the one you're referring to?

edit:http://www.prisonexp.org/ Yep.

 

[Harvey]

BoberFett --

<< Hitler is only evil because he lost.

History is written by the victor. >>

If you really believe that:

1. You qualify as a true moral midget, and

2. You have a huge refund due from whoever was responsible for your ethical and spiritual upbringing.

 

[BillyD]

<< the U.S. stood by and let it happen.... >>


Wrong. My Grandpa didn't go to Europe because he liked the place.

 

[Daedalus]

Of course it can happen again. That's why you have to be morally fit and aware. Bad things happen to innocent people all the time.

 

[BillyD]

I know the US didn't do anything at first. The thing is, it wasn't our responsibility.

 

[Daedalus]

If we knew about atrocities being carried out by another Nation then it is our responsibility. Just as it is our personal responsibility to help our neighbor if they are being attacked. IMO but it may be law.

 

[afronappy]

whoa! I go away for a day and this thread blows up!

People, I never meant to imply that the U.S. didn't eventually do something about Genocide, because they did. However, you have to wonder whether things would have been different if Japan hadn't attacked Pearl Harbor. I don't care what laws (lend-lease act) were in effect...if you know something that atrocious is taking place, then screw the law for Christ's sake.

I consider myself a pacifist, and I'm not eager to get the blood of American soldiers on my hand, but point blank, something should have been done sooner. How could the U.S. not have known about the genocide??? Give me a break! Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

The U.S isn't perfect. I think it's the greatest country in the world, but we have to be able to recognize our mistakes.

 

[Tominator]

<< If we knew about atrocities being carried out by another Nation then it is our responsibility >>


If that were true, it would be the United States with the slogan..The Sun Never Sets of the American Empire.

We never have been the 'Word's Policeman,' and we should not be!

The Axis were a threat to the whole world. They wanted to dominate most of the civilized world. When this became a fact instead of a suspicion, combined with other happenings of course, the US did everything it could!

To believe different is to ignore history.

Although Hitler ended up the most Popular Mass Murderer of the 20th Century, he did not get there without several others trying to take the title from him.

 

[Daedalus]

Of course that is not the case but that is how it should be assuming we are altruistic. I don't know how you get Imperialism out of that because that's an atrocity too. That is IF we knew, I do not advocate spying to accomplish intervention, altho we already do that. Don't worry, it will never happen any time soon.

 

[spree]

reitz,

everyone had huge casualties in the war. Not just the Germans. And it is natural for an economy to go into a recession after a war.

And for the record, I went to a public high school were the majority of students were Jewish. Believe me, I've had more than enough education considering the negative aspects of Nazi Germany. Once again, I'm not saying that Hitler was a good guy, nor did I ever argue that point. All I'm saying is that there were positive aspects to Hitler's regime, especially if you were a loyal, 100% German citizen.

 

[reitz]

spree

'm not arguing that there were some positive aspects for Germany overall, my argument was that they were only temporary and not worth the price that was paid. By the end of the war, those gains were completely erased.

It was no simple postwar recession; it was utter and complete devastation. Germany didn't surrender when it was apparent they would lose the war. The Russians marched all the way to Berlin from the East. Go to the library and check out a pictoral history of WWII. The photos of France and Germany immediately after the war will amaze you.

Even until the mid-1990's, there were still piles of rubble from the war in the former East Germany. Because the East was controlled by the Soviet Union, funds from the Marshall plan were never accepted to help rebuild, and the scars from WWII were still visible even during the last decade of the century.

Your original argument that Hitler did some good for Germany only has merit if you concede that the damage done to the country as a result of WWII destroyed those gains. Nearly every single citizen living in Germany at that time was far better off because of the war. To bring a country forward from a depression is good, but to do it by assuring more devastating future consequesces is not.

afronappy,

Read my earlier post with the dates showing when the US contributed, and you'll see that the United States did take action long before Pearl Harbor. Those are facts, not speculation or estimates. To you I pose the same challenge I gave to EmperorNero: Show me one peice of evidence that shows American and Allied leaders knew about the attrocities before getting involved in the war. You'll have a hard time finding it, though, since *most* of the mass murders happened after Americans started fighting.

 

[reitz]

EmperorNero and afronappy,

According to http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/holocaust/timeline.html, the first mass-murder of Jews did not occur until July, 1941. The United States was already giving away massive amounts of money, supplies, and military hardware, and at the same time building up its own armies for eventual entry into the war. The first mass gas chamber executions did not begin until January, 1942, after the United States had already entered the war.

If you take the time to read that timeline, you'll clearly see that most of the genocide happened during the second half of the war. There was a lot of public outcry to help the European Jews, but all of the countries involved were busy fighting Germany and Japan. The only way to help the people in the concentration camps was to defeat Germany, which took almost 6 years. On top of that, the worst of the attrocities we know about now were not even known until the waning days of the war.

The United States, both unaware of the severity of the situation, and unable to fight a large scale war, spent years building up its militarty and entered the war as soon as it was ready. The American military was not powerful enough to fight a large scale war until 1941.

Learn some of the history, and take the time to note the important dates. Then tell me what else could possibly have been done, with the knowledge the world had at the time. It was an unspeakable human tragedy, and in hindsight Hitler should have been stopped before he had complete power. How was the world supposed to know what would happen, though?

 

[Tominator]

<< . You'll have a hard time finding it, though, since *most* of the mass murders happened after Americans started fighting. >>



reitz Best post award in this thread! My hat is off to you...err bandana...

 

[montanafan]

The mistake a lot of people are making in this thread is judging America's actions as if we were the superpower then that we are today. We were NOT a superpower in 1939. We were not a power at all militarily. Our military was pitifully underfunded, undermanned, and underequipped at that time. Lend-lease was the best we could do until FDR could convince the American people and Congress that we needed to gear our industry toward the mass production of the military hardware that we would need. We became a military superpower because of WWII, not before.

 

[sandorski]

Let me first say that Hitler was mad and evil to the core.

He was, however, a political genious and Germany benefitted greatly from his leadership. Now before I get flamed, let me explain further.

The German people wouldn't have followed Hitler if they were not in a hopeless situation! The Treaty of Versailles left Germany in an oppressive situation, which added to it's wartorn economy after WW1, that was unjust. While most of the advanced economies collapsed in 1929, Germany's economy had been in depression since the end of WW1. Enter Hitler. He began turning Germany's economy around in the mid 30's. Many major projects, such as the Autobahn, were began and Germany finally began to recover. Many of these beneficial projects were in contravention of the Treaty, especially the developement of the aircraft industry, which probably helped in making the Germans more eager for war. Soon despair turned to pride, then pride to revenge! Without the Treaty of Versaille, Hitler would never have had the power that he did.

Does this make Hitler a hero? No, what he did was inexcuseable. What it shows is that when dealing with nations, one needs to be careful not to be too oppressive. I'm concerned that we may be making the same mistake with Iraq and Serbia, we should probably assasinate or kidnap Hussein and Milosevic so that the people of those countries can get on with their lives, not having us Allies bombing them every so often.

After WW2 the error of the Treaty wasn't repeated. Germany and Japan were aided economically and have been peaceful since. Kinda shows the wisdom of turning an enemy into a friend.

 

[spree]

reitz,

And what do you think would've happened if Germany won the war? It wouldn't have been left in ruins.

True, Germany was set back after the war. It was also set back after WWI.

Also keep in mind that a lot of successful German companies came out of WWII and are still around today.

 

[Hyper99]

hmm so you say hitler being oppressive?
it more then just that, how he look at any race other then his own?
inferior and don't deserve to live.
Notice how he took million of family out of their home and exterminate them as if they were cockroaches. starved them to death as well and force to do stupid thing such as dig their own grave. he look at himself as the smartest man alive with an IQ of 1000?! you see
how his powercraving pyschopatic mind work? this man is no genious, more like hideous, chaotic, insane, and mad. it funny how ww1 didnt taught them anything as the saying &quot;what don't kill you only make you stronger&quot; funny sh*T huh?
how they view themselve, the germany?
superior over any race, they were planning to exterminate the Japanese
too as soon they done using them.
for some reason the german hate jew more then anyone else.

 

[1luckymf]

That crazy SOB still has influence on people 55 years after his death...When will it end or will it ever.

1luckymf: Hopefully we never forget. We have learned alot from others mistakes, and mistakes are where we get the knowledge not to let something like this happen again. So while it may get people worked up and arguing, at least they are talking about it. And that is the only way to move forward, and make sure this never happens again.

GirlFriday,
I was refering to today's nazi movement and the attempt of some orginazations to carry on Hitler's ideas and policies

 

[jaydee]

<< There was a REASON we were staying out of the war >>



Yeah cause FDR was an idiot. He had to been the most overrated prez of all-time. He prolonged the depression, started social security tax, waited too long to get in the war, was good buds with 'Uncle Joe'
(Stalin that is) and was cocky enough to run for a 3rd AND 4th terms in office (and lied about his health to get his 4th term). He was so unproductive its not funny.

 

[reitz]

jaydee, do you have anything to back that up? I don't know about you, but when I post I like to have some evidence supporting my opinions. Right now you just sound like a rambling moron.

Point me towards a document that shows the United States was able to enter WWII before we did.

I didn't think so.