Adoption

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dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
36,177
30,635
136
Yeah, you just made yourself look stupid. Does it bother you that you cannot follow along in a chronologically based thread?
More intellectual dishonesty from you, surprise, surprise. You clipped the part of Mursilis' post that stated that in some cases a single parent can raise a kid properly.

FYI - You calling anyone stupid at this point actually carries negative weight.
 

Ausm

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
25,213
14
81
Gay parents are more likely to raise gay kids than straight parents.
http://www.aolnews.com/2010/10/17/study-gay-parents-more-likely-to-have-gay-kids/

OMG RUN FOR THE HILLS!!

From the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry:

http://www.aacap.org/cs/root/facts_..._lesbian_gay_bisexual_and_transgender_parents

What effect does having LGBT parents have on children?

Sometimes people are concerned that children being raised by a gay parent will need extra emotional support or face unique social stressors.Current research shows that children with gay and lesbian parents do not differ from children with heterosexual parents in their emotional development or in their relationships with peers and adults. It is important for parents to understand that it is the the quality of the parent/child relationship and not the parent’s sexual orientation that has an effect on a child’s development. Research has shown that in contrast to common beliefs, children of lesbian, gay, or transgender parents:

Are not more likely to be gay than children with heterosexual parents.

Are not more likely to be sexually abused.

Do not show differences in whether they think of themselves as male or female (gender identity).

Do not show differences in their male and female behaviors (gender role behavior).


Lamb also said that studies show "no significant increase" in the proportion of children who become gay and lesbian when they are raised by same-sex couples rather than heterosexuals.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lan...s-psychologist-testifies-at-prop-8-trial.html
 
Last edited:

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
More intellectual dishonesty from you, surprise, surprise. You clipped the part of Mursilis' post that stated that in some cases a single parent can raise a kid properly.

I clipped the portion of which I was discussing. You do not have to like being wrong, but you have to get used to it. You are quickly making it a habit.

Face it, you jumped at something you did not fully understand, and now are red faced about realizing you screwed up. Either man up and just say "ah, I see, ok", or at least stop replying and hope it goes away. Continuing to bring up your obvious mistake is silly.
 

boochi

Senior member
May 21, 2011
983
0
0

Riparian

Senior member
Jul 21, 2011
294
0
76
OMG RUN FOR THE HILLS!!

Lamb also said that studies show "no significant increase" in the proportion of children who become gay and lesbian when they are raised by same-sex couples rather than heterosexuals.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lan...s-psychologist-testifies-at-prop-8-trial.html

Does it seem weird that much of Schumm's data is extrapolated from 10 books about gay parenting? Since his report isn't out, I won't judge its merits but the sample size of families from 10 books about gay parenting seems suspect to me.
 

Ausm

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
25,213
14
81
Does it seem weird that much of Schumm's data is extrapolated from 10 books about gay parenting? Since his report isn't out, I won't judge its merits but the sample size of families from 10 books about gay parenting seems suspect to me.

Reread my revised post with empirical data.
 

Riparian

Senior member
Jul 21, 2011
294
0
76
Reread my revised post with empirical data.

Schumm is the author of the study in boochi's post. I quoted your statement because it seemed to offer a counterpoint to the Schumm study. The study in Boochi's article has a very strange methodology that I don't quite understand.
 

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,021
3
76
Obviously I think that gay couples should be able to adopt as much as straight people should, there is no difference.

I just wanted to pipe in with regards to the whole religious freedom thing, If religious institutions want to operate a discriminatory system then they shouldn't receive government funding. This may have already been said.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
36,177
30,635
136
I clipped the portion of which I was discussing. You do not have to like being wrong, but you have to get used to it. You are quickly making it a habit.

Face it, you jumped at something you did not fully understand, and now are red faced about realizing you screwed up. Either man up and just say "ah, I see, ok", or at least stop replying and hope it goes away. Continuing to bring up your obvious mistake is silly.
Maybe you should quote the specific post you are replying to instead of just posting with no context. Replying immediately after my post makes it appear as if you are replying to me, or possibly the OP.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
Gay parents are more likely to raise gay kids than straight parents.
http://www.aolnews.com/2010/10/17/study-gay-parents-more-likely-to-have-gay-kids/
I wouldn't find that surprising since there is considerable family and societal pressure to be straight, and thus many gays remain closeted. Still, I place very little faith in meta-analyses; they seem to me to be the lazy man's way of supporting his preconceptions.

The right to arm bears trumps the right to put lasers on sharks.
LOL +1

Obviously I think that gay couples should be able to adopt as much as straight people should, there is no difference.

I just wanted to pipe in with regards to the whole religious freedom thing, If religious institutions want to operate a discriminatory system then they shouldn't receive government funding. This may have already been said.
I agree with the second paragraph. If some woman wants to put her baby up for adoption with a religious institute to be adopted according to a set of values she finds important, more power to her. But where those values significantly disadvantage persons otherwise eligible under federal or state guidelines, those religious programs should not be supported by federal or state tax money. If you want to support your values, support your values.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
36,177
30,635
136
I wouldn't find that surprising since there is considerable family and societal pressure to be straight, and thus many gays remain closeted. Still, I place very little faith in meta-analyses; they seem to me to be the lazy man's way of supporting his preconceptions.


...
If a 'gay' remains closeted, is he no longer gay in your opinion?
 
Feb 6, 2007
16,432
1
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Seeing as how I was adopted by lesbian mothers, I think I'm legally obligated to respond to every thread about gay adoption. I voted for the last option; gays should be allowed to adopt, but if there's a straight couple with better qualifications, they should get precedent. That's pretty simple logic unless you're completely opposed to gay adoption, in which case, from the bottom of my heart, God bless these people for they know not what they do.
 
Feb 6, 2007
16,432
1
81
Gay parents are more likely to raise gay kids than straight parents.
http://www.aolnews.com/2010/10/17/study-gay-parents-more-likely-to-have-gay-kids/
Even if this were true, which it isn't, why is that a problem? Unless being gay is inherently bad, it shouldn't matter if someone is more likely to be gay, should it? In a related study, the children of doctors are more likely to become doctors. Is that a bad thing? Of course not. So why bring it up? By mentioning this, all you're saying is that being gay is somehow a negative thing, and that's just thinly-veiled homophobia.
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
12
76
I'm not even going to read this thread as I don't need the aggravation from the bigots.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,143
30,099
146
I like this answer in the poll

"Yes, unless no qualified heterosexual couple can be found in the same timeframe"

Gays decided to live a lifestyle in which no children will be produced. They should not take children away from parents who by some condition or illness can not reproduce.

dumbness found. there are far too many adoptable children that no one will adopt. Ample evidence shows that homosexual couples are no less capable than any heterosexual couple in raising well-adjusted children.

To deny the opportunity of a child to be raised with loving parents simply because of profound ignorance is wrong.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
As much as my views are that homosexuals are a naturally occuring human sexuality in a small percent of the population and that they are deserving of equality and respect for their sexuality and relationships like anyone else, including the right to marry, I was prepared to view the issue of adoption, basing the child's needs first, as one that may well involve the much more common male-female partners as having benefits to the child's development, and to say gay couples get less priority as a result.

The question, though, is whether that speculation is correct - and studies suggest children do as well in gay households as straight households.

So, my opinion is to give gays fully equal rights here as well.

The poll's fourth item is messed up - if the advantages of the heterosexual parents have 'nothing to do with sexuality', why is sexuality specified in the question?

What if there's a 'better qualified gay couple', should they get first pick over the less qualified gay couple? Better qualified gay over a straight couple?
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Even if this were true, which it isn't, why is that a problem? Unless being gay is inherently bad, it shouldn't matter if someone is more likely to be gay, should it? In a related study, the children of doctors are more likely to become doctors. Is that a bad thing? Of course not. So why bring it up? By mentioning this, all you're saying is that being gay is somehow a negative thing, and that's just thinly-veiled homophobia.

You have stumbled onto a major ethical discussion about homosexuality.

There are two separate issues. One is whether to treat people who are homosexual equally; the other is whether to treat homosexuality equally, i.e., to say that 'it's no better for a child to be heterosexual than homosexual, if you had the choice'. You can agree with the first and not the second.

The first comment I'd make is that this discussion is greatly distorted by the bias people have towards their own situation. With heterosexuals making up 95% of the population, that creates a large bias towards 'heterosexual is preferable' simply because it's more like them; the shock at the difference has led to millenia of gay discrimination - jail them, kill them, and so on.

So we have to try to discuss this on more rational issues than 'tribal bias'.

It works the same both ways though - gays are not immune to a bias that homosexaulity is just as good for a child to grow into because they have more sympathy, not the facts.

Having said that:

I'd say it's in the realm of 'reasonable argument' for heterosexuals to claim that the experience of heterosexual romance leading to family and children (and marriage, if so many of them weren't outlawing that) is an opportunity that's valuable for children making heterosexuality 'preferable' if you had a choice, even if you support zero discrimination against homosexual people.

This leads to the question: if science made a pill that would prevent homosexuality in a fetus when taking by a pregnant woman, should she? Should it be allowed?

This where that 'tribal bias' is likely to become a screaming match on both sides.

Homosexuals might feel this is almost a genocide-like destruction of one natural human condition they value and hateful and destructive, while heterosexuals would argue why it's a very good idea to not have children have this 'limitation' on their sexuality and the 'heterosexual children' and such.

Interestingly, let's bring up deafness. One would thing it's not controversial that this is a disability that's unfortunate and best prevented whenever possible.

But many deaf people have said that they very much disagree - that they prefer deafness and to remove it is to deny what some would prefer. They don't want to be 'cured'.

And when you think about it, as outrageous as it sounds, it's hard not to say that it's more an assumption by hearing people who haven't thought about the deaf's opinion.

Much as some deaf people are fighting to push restoring hearing to all deaf people whenever possible (the main issue would be children who can't decide), homosexuals might well argue against destroying homosexuality in the human population. And it's an interesting ethical discussion.

Are there also benefits to homosexuality heterosexuals don't understand or appreciate? Should the tribal bias be allowed to decide the issue?
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
36,177
30,635
136
...
There are two separate issues. One is whether to treat people who are homosexual equally; the other is whether to treat homosexuality equally, i.e., to say that 'it's no better for a child to be heterosexual than homosexual, if you had the choice'. You can agree with the first and not the second.
...
To me, this is really the crux of the issue. It seems a prevalent argument is 'I think homosexuals are okay (ie: I don't hate gay people) but I'm concerned that gay couples raising a child increases the risk that the child will also be gay.' Why is a child becoming a homosexual adult a problem if 'gays' aren't a problem?

This is a widespread issue and it just goes to show how far our society has yet to come on this issue.
 

lothar

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2000
6,674
7
76
Those of you that voted "No, they should never be denied" rather than "No, unless a heterosexual couple is better qualified in ways not related to sexual orientation" are basically saying even if the heterosexual couple is better qualified, the homosexual couple should never be denied?
I don't get that...

So you'd support adopting a child to homosexual couples over heterosexual ones in ALL cases, regardless of qualifications not related to sexual orientation?
 
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