advice for a new server

[denpgeorge]

I help my dad run a small business. We've got about 6 computers in the office all with Windows XP. The computers are mostly used for CAD/CAM etc and backing up/saving files between computers has been a real pain.

So I am looking into to putting together a server which could automatically back up data from each computer, first to a redudant RAID set up, and then to tape for archival purposes. I was thinking Windows Server 2003 Small Business Edition.

The most important thing for this is being able to automatically back up files, and also to be very stable and reliable. I was thinking I might also use the machine to host a few internal very infrequently used web applications. Also everyone uses whatever email address right now (my dad still uses his aol account, blah). So I was thinking I may also set up exchange while I was at it.

Is hoping to be able to automatically back up each machine too far fetched or should I move to using the server as the main central storage location for everything?

Should I plan on getting a gigabit switch and gigabit ethernet on the server? If I do this, does each machine also need gigabit or would I still see a performance benefit with the switch and gigabit on the server only?

Should I go with an OEM machine, or build one on my own? What parts would you recommend to go with if I did build my own... I'd really like to be able to spend as little as possible. Less than $1000 maybe too much to hope for, but it would be nice.. (already bought a copy of Windows Server).

 

[imported_Tick]

I vote OEM for a mission critical server, but if you can afford to be without it, then build your own. Automatic backup can be done, but you would have better success with storing everything on the server. GBE isn't really a big deal, but it can help in some cases. A GB switch will allow you to switch a GB of traffic, even if each connection is less than that. Tabe backups aren't really neccissary unless the server will be enterprise class.

 

[OdiN]

Oh dear mother of God please do NOT get any windows small business server....it SUCKS and is a PAIN and takes FOREVER AND A DAY to install....they are horrid.

Get the standard 2003 server if you are going to get one.

Build your own and put in your RAID and whatnot. Use Veritas BackupExec for your backups and you should be fine. It will do backup to disk and also backup to tape.

 

[GreyMittens]

I've got to jump on the anti sbs bandwagon too -- though in it's defense I have heard it's got a bit better with this last release. If you don't need exchange or sql and for that matter don't like putting all your eggs in one basket, i would suggest just getting the generic server 2003 and I'd throw in support for veritas also.

It has a backup to disk option which you could grab the data from each PC and then a tape solution as well.

The server itself is a tough call, in that case I would build my own (though i generally know what I want, what the components can do and how to build it) Having said that, the org I work for we use Proliant boxes for all critical servers and we also get the 4 hr support with them since even at times if a controller dies 4 hours can be a lifetime (and then they even will miss the 4hr response..) Though I doubt pops will be that keen on dishing out 5K for an entry level box and a grand for OS and CALs and then a few hundred more for Veritas and several hundred for a tape backup drive.

Remember though - you really do get what you pay for - if possible, don't skimp on the server.

Good luck.

 

[imported_Tick]

I further agree that SBS is demon spawn....
I still think that keeping all the data on the server is a better idea. What if one of the PC's goes down with important data on it before a backup gets executed?

 

[denpgeorge]

hi guys, thanks for your advice...

im curious why such an aversion to server 2003 SBS as opposed to the regular? its actually cheaper, and i was considering an exchange install anyway. how different is it, and what would i be missing out on by not getting the full standard version. is it crippled somehow?

veritas sounds good, ill be getting that. seems like RAID 1 is the consensus too. also i think i like the idea of a GB switch so ill be getting that too.

still trying to decide if i should build my own machine now. how important are faster components if all im needing to do is basically file sharing and backup? a slower cpu would be fine for just that right? how about memory? which components should i definitely go all out on, besides of course choice of hard drive and motherboard.

for the hard drives was gonna get a raptor for the windows installation and i actually already bought two wd RE series drives for RAID storage. if i get an OEM system, i was planning to pop these in for the RAID.

also if i were to build my own, what would be the recommendation for the 'stablest' motherboard which comes with SATA RAID onboard? thatd help me decide on and narrow down pretty much everything else very quickly.

thanks all of you for your help!

 

[bob4432]

my personal recommendation would be to use winxp pro, with a ton of hdd space in a raid 5 setup and backup that to a external usb/firewire hdd so you can take it with you. i would spend a fair amount on a nice large case, a nice psu, good quality m/b like tyan or some "server" quality stuff. scsi would be nice but it would be too expensive, but i think some of the seagate 5yr warranty large hdds should suffice. also, by running xp over one of the flavors of "server" software means you can use regular backup software/defrag software and not need to buy the "server" version of the defrag software.

use ample processing power, but not much would be needed, something like a 3000venice would be more than enough. i would go with 1GB of ram or if you are anal, you can pick up the skt940 and a true server m/b with ecc ram since those cpus are getting cheaper.

for the backup program, i have found and like acronis true image, which will basically create a image of the hdd from whatever machine it is on to a mapped drive. so you would need 7 copies of acronis, but it is pretty cheap. i have used acronis, ghost and ghost corporate and have found that acronis for drive imaging works very well and is quick and easy. then use acronis that is on the server to image the backed up drives which would now be on the raid 5 array to the external hdd. also, acronis does have a scheduler so you can set when you want the clients to backup their data, it works while the machine is still on and you have the option of either making progressive backups or entire backups where all the old backup files are overwritten.

for mail duties, if you definately want to do it in-house, i have used alt-n mdaemon with their anti-virus. it is very simple and from my experience worked very well. exchange is not easy to setup, where alt-n is much easier and a novice can have one setup pretty secure rathe easy. also, it has built-in webmail if you just wanted everybody to use that.

as far as gigabit i would use a gigabit switch and nic in the server and let the clients run on 100Mb/s. with gigabit you could have a couple machines backing up at the same time. in my experience at home, using acronis with regular compression it uses about 7-8MB/s per machine. 100Mb/s = 12.5MB/s, where 1Gb/s = 125MB/s but the server hdds will be the limiting factor, but you should be able to backup 3 machines at the same time and you will not be saturating the bandwidth, hdd ability or cpu.

this is what i use at home and would definately move it into a small business enviornment as it has been tried for years and works very well. unfortunately, my isp killed my ability to accept mail on port 25, so i am not running the mail server, but did for over a year.

 

[crobusa]

Rant on Small Business Server
A year ago, I had extensive experience with XP, but was a total n00b with servers..
We have a Microsoft Action Pack, as we use the software for internal use as a computer business, and got SBS Basic, SBS Premium, and 2003 Sever.

We installed SBS and I never activated it.. It's Server 2003 with a bunch of beginner scripts that are easy to break, and destroy everything when they do. The intended audience is someone a "CEO who can barely work his XP box, but too cheap to hire an IT person."
Example, SMTP connector and Shared Fax Service are the only unique parts to SBS, and shared faxing is done easily in regular Server.
It limits Exchange to 2Gb, so if they e-mail CAD files, they're DOA.
We set up a Sharepoint site, but it refused to show faxes as promised.

 

[crobusa]

Useful Info
Since then we went with Server 2003 Standard, and it's much, much better..
We use these technologies alot, and you might want to research them..

Domain A domain with Active Directory will really help you out with administration, and is required for Exchange. It lets you lock out inactive employees, set up permissions throughout company, and lets you use all sorts of cool tech.

Roaming Profiles This will move their desktop/documents/settings to the server every time they log off, centralizing backups, and making adding a laptop/moving a user as easy as logging on.

Distributed File System This we don't use yet, but I plan to start with the 2nd server. What it does is creates a share with the files hosted on multiple machines, so if a server needs to be rebooted, the company doesn't grind to a halt.

Online Backups We pay Ibackup.com about $20 for a couple gigs, and we backup nightly. No tapes, an e-mail if it fails/a file's busy, and best of all, it keeps 20 versions.

So we have central on the file server Quickbooks backed up, a "Personal" share that contains desktop/my documents for all users.

The only thing left is the Outlook pst files.. either migrate to Exchange as you suggest, or move them to My Documents, and let Roaming take care of it.

 

[crobusa]

Do the users need to access a central repository for CAD files?
Does each user have one computer, where that access their projects locally?
Where are the critical files?

One last rant about SBS, it wants to be the center of the company, host all the files, run the company web portal, the SQL databases and be the damn firewall/vpn server.

It runs enough services to be made of swiss cheese, and it want to be the gateway to the internet. :disgust::Q

Other things:

When the fuse trips, putting a UPS on the server is worthless if the switch isn't protected as well.
Put a 2nd server at the other end of the office and market it as "growth potential".. It's a lifesaver when the 1st server goes down unexpectantly.
Redundancy/Speed/Scalability go together.
No backup plan will save your job if it doesn't correlate with reality.
If your recovery plan takes more than 8 hours, rethink it. Do you have the tools to rebuild the server on hand? Read the off-site tapes?
Make a flow-chart of the resources in the company, and keep it up-to-date.

 

[crobusa]

Costs:

We got the parts for our second server from here
Look out for MS/AMD promos, they give away Server licences.

If you really need to strech for the 2nd server, Server 2003 can install on a Dell Dimention 4600.. This isn't at all recommended, as the hardware's not certified for 2003, but it worked until we got a budget for a "real" server.. Hot deals can get you a 4600 for about $300-450