Advice needed - AC Repair/Replacement

[JM Aggie08]

We just moved into a new (to us) house. The home and AC are 11 years and we just had our biannual check-up/tune-up on the system. The only issues we've got at the moment are the capacitor and fan motor going bad. We're also needing a hard start kit put in since we recently had a generator put in and don't want to kill the condenser. Since this is the oldest house we've been in, I'm not sure what our move should be given the age of the system. Options with pricing are as follows:

*Repairs as noted above: $2,100
*New condenser installed: $10, 000
*New Lenox dual-zone system: $15,000

We live in Texas and the home is spray-foamed. My gut tells me to just repair and move on for now since the system is operating fine otherwise. It's a Trane system, so on the nicer end. However, given the age of the system and where we live, I'm not sure if/when it makes sense to spring for a new system altogether. I don't think just getting a new condenser make since, given that it's nearly 70% the cost of a full system.

Halp plz

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

We just moved into a new (to us) house. The home and AC are 11 years and we just had our biannual check-up/tune-up on the system. The only issues we've got at the moment are the capacitor and fan motor going bad. We're also needing a hard start kit put in since we recently had a generator put in and don't want to kill the condenser. Since this is the oldest house we've been in, I'm not sure what our move should be given the age of the system. Options with pricing are as follows:

*Repairs as noted above: $2,100
*New condenser installed: $10, 000
*New Lenox dual-zone system: $15,000

We live in Texas and the home is spray-foamed. My gut tells me to just repair and move on for now since the system is operating fine otherwise. It's a Trane system, so on the nicer end. However, given the age of the system and where we live, I'm not sure if/when it makes sense to spring for a new system altogether. I don't think just getting a new condenser make since, given that it's nearly 70% the cost of a full system.

Halp plz

You can get heat pumps for pretty cheap nowadays. How big is the place? You might be able to rip out the whole system and replace with some mitsubishi jobbers for near the same price, or at least make up the difference over time.

 

[JM Aggie08]

We're about 2800sqft

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

We're about 2800sqft

I'm not a contractor, but each of these seems fine for 500-800sqft, so you might get away with maybe 5 of them? They're like $6-10k each installed, but I bet you could get a bunch at a lower price, especially if you've got some concrete already sunk somewhere. Anyhow, worth looking into for the cost savings alone.

 

[dullard]

The only issues we've got at the moment are the capacitor and fan motor going bad. We're also needing a hard start kit put in since we recently had a generator put in and don't want to kill the condenser.

I personally would get 2 new AC capacitors. They are $15 to $25 each in many cases. Simple to swap--usually less than 15 minutes total. I'd get 2 capacitors since you never want to wait days in heat to order another because you cheaped out on simple part.

I had my AC fan replaced recently for a couple hundred dollars. I'm sure it is more expensive now with inflation. But, still not a bad thing to replace.

I've never done a hard start kit, but a quick online search shows ~$60 for the parts and ~$300 to install if you don't want to install it yourself.

Replace the unit when it actually fails--not just because a minor part needs to be replaced. Sounds mostly like some company was trying to rip you off with prices 3x higher than they should have been.

 

[pete6032]

We just moved into a new (to us) house. The home and AC are 11 years and we just had our biannual check-up/tune-up on the system. The only issues we've got at the moment are the capacitor and fan motor going bad. We're also needing a hard start kit put in since we recently had a generator put in and don't want to kill the condenser. Since this is the oldest house we've been in, I'm not sure what our move should be given the age of the system. Options with pricing are as follows:

*Repairs as noted above: $2,100
*New condenser installed: $10, 000
*New Lenox dual-zone system: $15,000

We live in Texas and the home is spray-foamed. My gut tells me to just repair and move on for now since the system is operating fine otherwise. It's a Trane system, so on the nicer end. However, given the age of the system and where we live, I'm not sure if/when it makes sense to spring for a new system altogether. I don't think just getting a new condenser make since, given that it's nearly 70% the cost of a full system.

Halp plz

What brand is the current one?

 

[nakedfrog]

I personally would get 2 new AC capacitors. They are $15 to $25 each in many cases. Simple to swap--usually less than 15 minutes total. I'd get 2 capacitors since you never want to wait days in heat to order another because you cheaped out on simple part.

I had my AC fan replaced recently for a couple hundred dollars. I'm sure it is more expensive now with inflation. But, still not a bad thing to replace.

I've never done a hard start kit, but a quick online search shows ~$60 for the parts and ~$300 to install if you don't want to install it yourself.

Replace the unit when it actually fails--not just because a minor part needs to be replaced. Sounds mostly like some company was trying to rip you off with prices 3x higher than they should have been.

Yep, I replaced a capacitor a few years ago and it was cheap and easy ("jusht like your mother, Trebek!")

 

[Greenman]

We just moved into a new (to us) house. The home and AC are 11 years and we just had our biannual check-up/tune-up on the system. The only issues we've got at the moment are the capacitor and fan motor going bad. We're also needing a hard start kit put in since we recently had a generator put in and don't want to kill the condenser. Since this is the oldest house we've been in, I'm not sure what our move should be given the age of the system. Options with pricing are as follows:

*Repairs as noted above: $2,100
*New condenser installed: $10, 000
*New Lenox dual-zone system: $15,000

We live in Texas and the home is spray-foamed. My gut tells me to just repair and move on for now since the system is operating fine otherwise. It's a Trane system, so on the nicer end. However, given the age of the system and where we live, I'm not sure if/when it makes sense to spring for a new system altogether. I don't think just getting a new condenser make since, given that it's nearly 70% the cost of a full system.

Halp plz

Looks like your HVAC guy is behind on his yacht payments. The union shop I used in California was considerably less expensive than that.
I'd find a local contractor to have a look before pulling the trigger on any of that.

 

[mindless1]

Is the capacitor bulging? I'm just wondering why it wasn't replaced right then and there, usually something like that is already stocked on the truck and then you are only overpaying once for the visit to do it.

Motor, how can the motor be diagnosed if it is having trouble running from a bad capacitor, if it is even bad? I suppose a lot of wobble or bearing noise would be an indicator, but if bearing noise it might benefit from a few drops of oil to lube it, if a sleeve bearing fan instead of ball bearing.

On the other hand, I would shop around for better pricing because if you want to replace the condenser or whole thing, it may be significantly cheaper to do now, rather than waiting till after 2025 because of a new EPA mandate that changes the refrigerant used, phases out 410A, and supposedly it is expected that this will increase costs. I have not priced it out myself, but have seen rumors that this could raise the cost by 30%. You might also ask what the new system will use. I'd prefer to stay with 410A but would expect lower pricing for it too, even if they try to claim that "some day" if it ever needs refrigerant, it will cost more. R410A isn't going away any time soon with tens of millions of units running it.

Refrigerant Changes Coming in 2025: R-410A Is Out - Innovair Corporation (United States)

REFRIGERANT CHANGES COMING IN 2025: R-410A IS OUT The Environmental Protection Agency, or EPA, continually strives to create a more sustainable planet, and one of its latest proposals drives that...

innovair.com

 

[RPD]

First get a second opinion on "motor going bad" and I hope you mean soft starter as a hard start is what you want to avoid given your described power situation.
Also yes, nex gen refrigerants are going to cost a lot more than current and will for awhile. Plenty of R410a in the world so don't worry about thinking the price is going to be expensive for replacing if you had a leak either.

 

[Dranoche]

Is the capacitor bulging? I'm just wondering why it wasn't replaced right then and there, usually something like that is already stocked on the truck and then you are only overpaying once for the visit to do it.

Motor, how can the motor be diagnosed if it is having trouble running from a bad capacitor, if it is even bad? I suppose a lot of wobble or bearing noise would be an indicator, but if bearing noise it might benefit from a few drops of oil to lube it, if a sleeve bearing fan instead of ball bearing.

On the other hand, I would shop around for better pricing because if you want to replace the condenser or whole thing, it may be significantly cheaper to do now, rather than waiting till after 2025 because of a new EPA mandate that changes the refrigerant used, phases out 410A, and supposedly it is expected that this will increase costs. I have not priced it out myself, but have seen rumors that this could raise the cost by 30%. You might also ask what the new system will use. I'd prefer to stay with 410A but would expect lower pricing for it too, even if they try to claim that "some day" if it ever needs refrigerant, it will cost more. R410A isn't going away any time soon with tens of millions of units running it.

Refrigerant Changes Coming in 2025: R-410A Is Out - Innovair Corporation (United States)

REFRIGERANT CHANGES COMING IN 2025: R-410A IS OUT The Environmental Protection Agency, or EPA, continually strives to create a more sustainable planet, and one of its latest proposals drives that...

innovair.com

If the fan motor is trying to pull too much current to get going it would eventually burn out the capacitor. Might have already done that to the old capacitor. If the cap was bad, fan would have been checked next. I don't know for sure but I think most fans have been using sealed bearings for a while, so not likely that an 11-year old unit has a fan that could or would be serviced.

I got an equivalent generic fan motor from Grainger last fall for about $185. OEM ranged from about $400-600, mostly because the part was so old. The other parts should be pretty cheap, as others have already mentioned. Factor in travel and time on-site and the repairs should probably be about half what they quoted. Doesn't take long at all to replace those parts if they've already diagnosed it. In my case it got me through the winter so I could get some other projects out of the way before finally replacing the whole system a couple months ago.

I would get a few more quotes for replacement. The repair seems high but the replacement may not be depending on the location and the proposed units. My unit was a 19-year old 2-ton single-stage heat pump package unit. First two contractors wanted to just replace it with another package unit with the exact same efficiency. They each offered me a couple different brands. Neither would entertain higher end systems or converting to a split. One at least offered a 2-stage system. Costs ranged from $8-10k from one and $10-12k from the other depending on the particular brand. Third contractor showed me a full range of options with cost ranging from about $7.5k for what the others had quoted me to about $12.5k for the variable speed split system that I ultimately selected. I would repair or fully replace.

 

[Tech Junky]

*Repairs as noted above: $2,100
*New condenser installed: $10, 000
*New Lenox dual-zone system: $15,000

Cap will run you about $10 @ Home Depot / pull the breaker\disconnect and then swap it out
Hard Start kits shouldn't be an issue

As others have said... parts / replacement are fairly cheap if you DIY. Ask me how I know about the cap.... I had one fail and had someone come replace it and got nailed for $100 and looked it up after.

I had a full replacement done with a 3T Heat Pump and it was only $4000 in Dallas. Shop around and get a bunch of quotes as that HP ranged from $4K - $15K depending on which idiot was doing the work. The CO I used swapped the outdoor and indoor air handler for that $4K.

 

[Red Squirrel]

I would just replace the capacitor and fan motor yourself and spend way less. Might want to also make sure the blades are well balanced after. If your generator is big enough and has a good surge rating you may not need the hard start kit so I would test it before you get it.

 

[WilliamM2]

I've never seen a capacitor "going bad". Use a meter to check the capacitance. They are either good, or bad.
I think you got a "sales tech" who gets a commission on selling new systems. Make the repair high enough, and it makes the sale easier.

 

[Hans Gruber]

We just moved into a new (to us) house. The home and AC are 11 years and we just had our biannual check-up/tune-up on the system. The only issues we've got at the moment are the capacitor and fan motor going bad. We're also needing a hard start kit put in since we recently had a generator put in and don't want to kill the condenser. Since this is the oldest house we've been in, I'm not sure what our move should be given the age of the system. Options with pricing are as follows:

*Repairs as noted above: $2,100
*New condenser installed: $10, 000
*New Lenox dual-zone system: $15,000

We live in Texas and the home is spray-foamed. My gut tells me to just repair and move on for now since the system is operating fine otherwise. It's a Trane system, so on the nicer end. However, given the age of the system and where we live, I'm not sure if/when it makes sense to spring for a new system altogether. I don't think just getting a new condenser make since, given that it's nearly 70% the cost of a full system.

Halp plz

Are you talking about the compressor? The condenser sits above your air handler/furnace. The compressor is in the outdoor unit. The dual run capacitor powers feeds the compressor and the fan. Eg. 45micro farads to the compressor and 5micro farads to the fan. If you do not have cooling but your fans run. It's a blown capacitor. It either works or it doesn't. Replacing it blind requires no multimeter or special tools. HVAC techs like to go through a barrage of tests. It's a $10 part and it sounds like your HVAC company would charge you at least $500 for parts and labor.

 

[LurchFrinky]

As others have hinted, I think the middle option is just bad. Either commit to repairing your current system as long as reasonably possible, or replace everything in one go so everything has the same age and warranty.
There are many little details that can sway your decision one way or another:
What is the SEER rating on your existing and proposed new unit, and what rating is appropriate based on your climate/electricity costs?
Since your current system is original to the house, is it "contractor grade" and would you consider that a bad thing?
Does a heatpump sound like a good idea?
Are you happy with the performance of your indoor components? You can get quieter, multi-speed blower fans if you replace everything.
How important is the warranty to you?

TLDR - There are benefits to replacing everything, but the price will be much higher than simply repairing what you have and it ultimately comes down to how much those benefits are worth financially.

I recently did a full replacement on my AC system based primarily on warranty. I just couldn't trust that the old unit would continue to last given its age and I didn't want to wait a couple of days for an AC tech to come out during a heat wave. All of the other benefits were just gravy for me.

 

[drnickriviera]

First get a second opinion on "motor going bad" and I hope you mean soft starter as a hard start is what you want to avoid given your described power situation.

I would agree and get a soft start kit from micro air. A hard start cap will actually increase the inrush current, but the current will be for a shorter time. That may be enough for it to start from the generator, but i'd imagine the generator would like the soft start better.

I've never seen a capacitor "going bad". Use a meter to check the capacitance. They are either good, or bad.
I think you got a "sales tech" who gets a commission on selling new systems. Make the repair high enough, and it makes the sale easier.

They will usually have a % to be out of spec. if you have a 50uf cap and the tolerance is 10%, if it reads 46uf, then they would say it is going bad

Are you talking about the compressor? The condenser sits above your air handler/furnace. The compressor is in the outdoor unit.

The evaporator coil is inside. the condenser coil is outside. Some people call them condensing units


I'd have to say that unless that condenser fan motor is an ECM, then i'd say that repair cost is way too high. But 'inflation'

 

[WilliamM2]

They will usually have a % to be out of spec. if you have a 50uf cap and the tolerance is 10%, if it reads 46uf, then they would say it is going bad

I know. But this still sounds like a shady tech. I had a 40/5 (original) on mine that read 38/5.1 since the system was new. Is that going bad?
It stayed that way for 8 years, until I replaced it last month due to the fan side dropping to 4.5. Herm side still read 38, no change.

I check every fall at the end of cooling season. Had an Amrad replacement ready this spring, before cooling season.

 

[mindless1]

It does seem like a shady tech, but since it is unheard of to start measuring capacitance on a system that still works, the primary indicator of a failing cap would be seeing it bulging at the top, unless it doesn't still work and the fan is just making a humming noise instead of spinning up, and then you can't conclude the fan is bad, till there's a new capacitor installed.

An HVAC tech is not going to start checking for shorts in the fan windings at this stage, or never in most cases, but if the fan was wobbling or squealing, after spinning up because the cap wasn't that bad, then sure, fan needs lubed or replaced.

Usually the fan is not bad. Caps just fail, particularly in hot climates. They don't seem to make them as good as they used to, and is why you can now get them for $10-20.

If the cap isn't bulging and the fan spins up with no problems, the cap is not needing replaced, doesn't matter if it is a 40/5 that reads 38/5.

 

[mindless1]

If the fan motor is trying to pull too much current to get going it would eventually burn out the capacitor. Might have already done that to the old capacitor. If the cap was bad, fan would have been checked next. I don't know for sure but I think most fans have been using sealed bearings for a while, so not likely that an 11-year old unit has a fan that could or would be serviced.

This is atypical. Fans usually outlast capacitors in hot climates and a tech generally does not diagnose fans if they have a bad capacitor, since the capacitor needs changed anyway, so might as well change it and then try the system. It is "usually" no easier to replace a fan while swapping the cap, than after, as the cap is "usually" not strapped to the side of the motor which would just make it run that much hotter. That will not blow up the new cap, to try the system and see.

Lubing the fan, It's more of a DIY thing at the first sign of wear, and if done before it gets too bad, the fan will typically last the life of the system. Fans used to have these lube ports, but manufacturers decided to just omit them because apparently, spending the few extra cents was of no benefit to them. The bearings aka bushings aren't significantly different, manufacturers just caused it to require more labor to lube them.

Yes they have used so-called non-servicable bearings for many years but that only means there is no hole or tube to add lube. You take the end cap off, and the blades, and can then add lube to both reservoirs. You won't find many HVAC techs that will do this because of a few reasons, one being that it is more profitable for them to just replace parts, a second being that by the time they are being called out for a part failure, it should have been lubed previously to prevent this, and third that you can't really guarantee how long the fan will continue to function given the variability on how bad the bearing wear was by the time it was serviced.

Could a winding have shorted out instead? Sure, it's possible, but it is very unlikely that a tech made the effort to diagnose that, if there was actually a bad capacitor too.

The mentality of servicing things has faded in modern society, just throw it away and replace, plus I can appreciate that to some people, there's a real hardship if their heating or cooling fails, so they are willing to pay a premium for the perceived longest lasting result... even if the new fan might die sooner than the old if it were periodically lubed and the new one is not, because you can more than double the life of a fan if it is lubed on a timely basis, usually they then outlast the rest of the system, but most homeowners are not that hands-on, and most techs wouldn't because of enough excuses + arguable reasons not to... but in my mind it becomes less excusable if they're coming out on an annual basis to supposedly "service" a system anyway instead of responding because of an existing failure. People are lazy and labor costs are high, so here is where we are today.

 

[WilliamM2]

If the cap isn't bulging and the fan spins up with no problems, the cap is not needing replaced, doesn't matter if it is a 40/5 that reads 38/5.

I agree with most your post. But a cap should be replaced if it's out of spec. That's why I replaced mine when it was down 10% at 4.5. Fan still spun just fine.
The herm side reading of 38 was still within spec, and read that since new.

If it's too far out of spec, it will cause the windings of the compressor or fan motor to run hotter, which can lead to early motor failure. It doesn't need to be bulging for replacement. Plus by the time it's bulging. it's failed. And who wants to be without air on a 90 degree day.

I kinda doubt his is out of spec though.

 

[drnickriviera]

I know. But this still sounds like a shady tech. I had a 40/5 (original) on mine that read 38/5.1 since the system was new. Is that going bad?
It stayed that way for 8 years, until I replaced it last month due to the fan side dropping to 4.5. Herm side still read 38, no change.

I check every fall at the end of cooling season. Had an Amrad replacement ready this spring, before cooling season.

I guess you could say every cap in use right now is going bad. Not like they last forever. What is a HVAC tech/salesman supposed to do if a cap reads 10% out of spec? Ideally you'd have a log where the cap reading was checked over the years to see if it is declining or stable, but they don't have that info. Do they make some easy money right now and replace the cap or wait for it to blow and hope they call you and not some other company?

I guess the roundabout point i'm trying to make is that caps aren't binary, they aren't just good, then bad. The systems will work fine below spec too. Question is when will they go completely bad? Your guess is as good as mine. I'd rather replace weak caps at the start of the cooling season rather than ball roasting hot season

 

[Hans Gruber]

I guess you could say every cap in use right now is going bad. Not like they last forever. What is a HVAC tech/salesman supposed to do if a cap reads 10% out of spec? Ideally you'd have a log where the cap reading was checked over the years to see if it is declining or stable, but they don't have that info. Do they make some easy money right now and replace the cap or wait for it to blow and hope they call you and not some other company?

I guess the roundabout point i'm trying to make is that caps aren't binary, they aren't just good, then bad. The systems will work fine below spec too. Question is when will they go completely bad? Your guess is as good as mine. I'd rather replace weak caps at the start of the cooling season rather than ball roasting hot season

The way you know the capacitor went bad is when your HVAC system is blowing room temperature air in cooling mode. The margins are + or minus 5% of the rated capacitance. When they go out they will not register anything because they are blown. They do not always bulge after they are failed. A multimeter with the capacitance setting will tell you what is going on.

 

[nisryus]

I have just repalced my outside unit (condenser), the evaporator coil an dhousing, blower, swicth, new pipes.. etc last week. The coil was leaking and it was almost 20 years old (house was built 2004). The tech told me the capacitor looked ok but actually was failing when he tested.

All for $6k so hope the unit now will last longer.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Are the capacitor and fan motor the blower motor in your ventilation system indoors? I've replaced those a couple times myself for under $300. I'll usually go to Grainger for parts.

IMHO, the blower fan is kind of its own separate thing from the rest of the system; I wouldn't consider replacing anything else just because that failed. As long as it's sealed, not leaking freon or whatever, then it's not worth replacing the whole thing. Moving parts wear out faster in general, so as a homeowner, you kind of want to learn to DIY that stuff. It's usually pretty easy.

Likewise for the cold weather crowd - a failed draft inducer motor doesn't mean it's time for a new furnace, especially if the failure is due to external factors like a bird falling down your chimney. (Eeeew.)