Advice - Speakers & headphones for PC

[smugboy]

Just got a bargain deal on a X-Fi Gamer soundcard to finally make the move from onboard, and I'm looking to upgrade my speakers & headphones to make sure the upgrades not wasted. I'd really appreciate any advice/suggestions you guys can provide around what products I should consider.

Current speakers - some old Creative 6.1 speakers (can't remember the model number, but I don't think there are that many 6.1s - these have 8W satelites & 20W centre, no tweaters just a single cone)

Current Headphones - Branded "Technics", but I reckon their pretty generic as I got them cheap (£15, which is about $10,000) in a catalogue years ago, and I've seen identical sets with differrent brands slapped on them

Main use of my computer is gaming (esp FPS), and I listen to some music, but don't watch many films/movies on it.

My aim here is not to stiffle the new sound quality that the X-Fi will bring, but I don't want to spend a fortune either:

Speakers - I've been looking at Logitech G51s, about £90 (approx $2.5M), inc tax & deliv, and I don't want to spend much more, and I like surround.

Headphones - scratching my head on this a bit. The cyper sniper sonar (or some such stupid gamer name) 5.1 headphones got a good write up on Xtremesystems, but 5.1 headphones? (like the idea, and I'm not an audiophile, but concerned 5.1 phones are essentially maketing tat). Also, I'd have trouble with the wife if I spent more than £30-£50 ($70M-$200M) on headphoones.

What do you guys reckon?

Also, will the upgrade be significant?

Note: I'm using a Gigabyte P35 DS3R - I think the onboard is supposed to be one of the better options for onboard ALC889A or something, which was a factor in my mobo choice)

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Y...wsDAjello/Welcome2.JPG

I don't know where you're getting your conversion rates to US dollars, but they're way off.

Once you get the budget sorted out, maybe we can be more helpful.

 

[smugboy]

YOyo - thanks for the welcome.

Looks like my lame exchange rate joke about the current weakness of the dollar didn't work very well...

Let me try again with more sensible numbers:

I reckon you could get my current headphones for around $20. I paid the equivelent of $20 to $30, can't remember which, and prices are generally lower in the US than here in the UK

The Logitech G51s retail here for ~$170 inc tax & delivery, and I would like to spend in the region of $150 to $200.

New Headphones for $50 to $100

With both of the above ranges I would prefer to be at the lower end, but would pay the higher amounts if it made a real diferrence

Hope this helps
Appologies again for the bad jokes
Would really appreciate any advice

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Y...wsDAjello/Welcome2.JPG

are you going to make another one for your current avatar?

 

[Tiamat]

5.1 headphones aren't really worth it. I find they just don't sound great. Koss portapros at the lower end of your range have prodigious amounts of bass if that is your cup of tea. Grado SR-60/80 make up the rest of your headphone budget ranges. Sennheiser HD555 has been on sale in the US for 90$, but may be different in UK. The senn are more laidback sounding than the grado (which tend to accentuate the 7khz-11khz (cymbals and sibilance)) but are much harder to drive unless you use an external headphone amplifier due to their high impedance and large upperbass impedance swing.

 

[smugboy]

Thanks Tiamat. Amazon have the portapros for $35 delivered. Cheapest Grado SR60's I can find are about $140, which puts them out of reach. Pretty tempted to snag the portapros, but I'll hold fire a bit in the hope of getting a few more recommendations to compare to.

Really appreciate the advice - I wouldn't have thought to look for either of these.

 

[smugboy]

Any help with the 5.1 speakers?

Z-5500 - are a bit expensive ($400 here in the UK)
Z-5300e -are nolonger available
G51 - how good are these?
Altec Lansing FX5051 - how good are these? ($300 is also a bit more than I plannned)
Creative GigaWorks Pro Gamer G500 - also more than I was planning to spend ($320)
Others - ?

 

[Tiamat]

Originally posted by: smugboy
Thanks Tiamat. Amazon have the portapros for $35 delivered. Cheapest Grado SR60's I can find are about $140, which puts them out of reach. Pretty tempted to snag the portapros, but I'll hold fire a bit in the hope of getting a few more recommendations to compare to.

Really appreciate the advice - I wouldn't have thought to look for either of these.

Grado SR-60 should be 75$, SR-80 should be 90$. 140$ is a rip off.

What are your specific goals for your desktop speaker?

Do you want More sound, Better sound, both? Are you willing to sacrifice surround sound for better stereo sound?

Do you intend to haphazardly place the speakers on your desk or are you going to pay attention to placement?

Do you crave the over-thumping of bass, or do you want a leaner, perhaps cleaner presentation of bass?

 

[smugboy]

Tiamat, really appreciate your input:

UK rip off pricing can be very frustrating (and random, some products compare OKish vs USA, and then some, like the Grado's and Z-5500, are nearly twice the price)

Specific goals - do justice to the X-Fi in gaming & music (don't want to waste a good soundcard with lame speakers)

better sound not more - don't reckon the wife, kid & neighbours will appreciate Z-5500s at max (although I might like the sound quality at 10-20% vol)

Has to be 5.1

Placement - my computer area is set up with my current speakers arrayed around me in a 1m radius circle, not much scope for variation in this.

Over-thumping base - wife/kids/neighbours => cleaner base sounds like the better option

Also just seen a bargain deal on some Creative Gigaworks pro Gamer G500s - at $220 they look good relative to the G51s $170 and Z-5500s $400 on a price vs spec basis

 

[Tiamat]

If 5.1 is a must, you are limited to computer speakers pretty much. Problem with forcing 5.1 is that at your budget, you are pretty much buying 5$ speakers for each of the channels and a 25$ subwoofer.

Can you get Klipsch Promedia Ultra 5.1 in that price range?

If you were able to deal with stereo, professional stereo monitors (like m-audio) start at 200$, so that would be a jump from 5$ per speaker to probably 50$ per speaker. While this comparison is obviously flawed in many ways, simplistically, it shows the value of putting more money into less speakers.

What you lose when you move to the stereo is some of the surround effect. The better stereo speaker will immerse you in sound so you wont lose all of the effect. The stereo speakers in this price range will not have much kickdrum bass, but it will have excellent vocals, instruments, and cymbals. Additionally, bass guitar lines will be easier to hear, more distinct and less muffled.

Computer speakers typically do not excel in vocals, instrument clarity and cymbals, but (over)emphasize bass frequencies for gamers who think explosions are the entire game's soundtrack.

As you can see, you are at a compromise crossroad. This is where your personal "needs" come into play. If you haven't heard "good" stereo speakers and the type of immersive sound field they can project, you really owe it to yourself to listen to a proper setup for comparison.

Stereo isn't for everybody, but it is the road I chose after selling my Klipsch Ultra 5.1 computer speakers. I have not looked back since. I play FPS type games using stereo without any compromise to my gaming ability.

If after you hear proper stereo speakers (200$ professional monitors for example) and do not feel that the added clarity, decreased distortion, and overwise improved sound quality offset the lack of surround sound...

 

[Blurry]

Unfortunately the Klipsch Promedias are not available anymore...

but, I totally agree with Tiamat - with your budget, you will definitely be better off investing in two good speakers rather than five poor-mediocre ones. They might not give the "wow" effect as 5.1 speakers do, but in terms of clarity, range, and tonality, a good set of 2.1s >> cheap 5.1s.

 

[sdifox]

What about Sennheiser headphones? Since GB is part of EU, product from Germany should not be priced stratospherically anymore.

 

[smugboy]

sdifox - what Sennheiser models would you recommend? I've looked at reviews & pricing for a few models (HD280pro, 555, 595 I think) and they seem to cost a lot more than than portapros for similar, or maybe very slightly better, sound quality. For example Portapros for $35 vs HD280pro for $140.

Think I'm settling on a good pair of phones now - Even if I look to spend more than the wife will let me it doesn't sound like I will get that good quality from speakers. Wifey also pointed out that I'm rarely allowed to make use of my current speakers, so I'd just be wasting cash - she has a point, but I just want some new toys

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: smugboy
sdifox - what Sennheiser models would you recommend? I've looked at reviews & pricing for a few models (HD280pro, 555, 595 I think) and they seem to cost a lot more than than portapros for similar, or maybe very slightly better, sound quality. For example Portapros for $35 vs HD280pro for $140.

Think I'm settling on a good pair of phones now - Even if I look to spend more than the wife will let me it doesn't sound like I will get that good quality from speakers. Wifey also pointed out that I'm rarely allowed to make use of my current speakers, so I'd just be wasting cash - she has a point, but I just want some new toys

Reviews don't really tell you how a pair of cans sound. You have to audition them, just like speakers. If you are using it for gaming, Sennheiser maybe overkill

go try these too

http://www.hifiheadphones.co.u...phones-prodid-214.html


ps, these prices don't look too bad to me

http://www.hifiheadphones.co.u...e-headphones-ct-3.html

 

[smugboy]

sdifox - had fun with the links:

Grado GS1000 only £900 - bargain!

They also had Sennheiser HD201 for £15. I've actually got a set of these that I had relegated to my old PC as I was dissapointed when I brought them as an upgrade to a similarly priced set of Technics RP-F200s. The Sennheisers just looked and felt cheaper.

I went on a bit of a review search and checked out the Senn 515s as well as both the pairs I currently own. All sets had a similar range of reviews from glowing praise to good, but with one or two minor weaknesses (you mentioned that I should test them not rely on reviews, but i'm a dedicated internet shopper).

Now i'm confused - I want to spend up to ~£50 and get a decent upgrade in quality over the 2 sets I have (the Audio-Technica ATH-AD700 you linked are too expensive at £90).

What would you recommend at about this price?

Also, having done some back to back listening with the two sets i own and I now prefer my Senns to my Technics (clearer, more open and defined sound vs muggy)

 

[smugboy]

Thanks to: http://www.goodcans.com/Headph...ws/recommendations.htm

I think I have worked this out:

In sound quality (and Amazon price order):

Koss portapros - £18, alternatively, and I'm less sure here - Sennheiser PX100 £18
Sennheiser HD 555 - £58
Grado SR-60 - £73
Grado SR-80 - £90

Now what I really want is to find a deal on some Grados at nearer US prices (i.e. half) and I'm sorted...

Thanks to everyone for the advice, and lead into the audio world - I may have found a distaction from surfing the overclocking forum, which invariably leads me to increasing the torture rate on my E4500 (3.2) & 8800GT (700,1750,2000)

 

[Tiamat]

Originally posted by: smugboy
Thanks to: http://www.goodcans.com/Headph...ws/recommendations.htm

I think I have worked this out:

In sound quality (and Amazon price order):

Koss portapros - £18, alternatively, and I'm less sure here - Sennheiser PX100 £18
Sennheiser HD 555 - £58
Grado SR-60 - £73
Grado SR-80 - £90

Now what I really want is to find a deal on some Grados at nearer US prices (i.e. half) and I'm sorted...

Thanks to everyone for the advice, and lead into the audio world - I may have found a distaction from surfing the overclocking forum, which invariably leads me to increasing the torture rate on my E4500 (3.2) & 8800GT (700,1750,2000)

The Sennheiser HD 555 at 58 british points is a far better deal than the Grado SR-80 at 90 pounds. In fact, I would put the Sennheiser HD 555 at the level of Grado SR-125 sound quality level wise (of course the corresponding sound quality is different, but they perform in the same "level" of performance).

The Koss portapro's main competition is the sennheiser Px100. The Koss has more bass, the Senn has smoother upper midrange, lower treble.

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: smugboy
sdifox - had fun with the links:

Grado GS1000 only £900 - bargain!

They also had Sennheiser HD201 for £15. I've actually got a set of these that I had relegated to my old PC as I was dissapointed when I brought them as an upgrade to a similarly priced set of Technics RP-F200s. The Sennheisers just looked and felt cheaper.

I went on a bit of a review search and checked out the Senn 515s as well as both the pairs I currently own. All sets had a similar range of reviews from glowing praise to good, but with one or two minor weaknesses (you mentioned that I should test them not rely on reviews, but i'm a dedicated internet shopper).

Now i'm confused - I want to spend up to ~£50 and get a decent upgrade in quality over the 2 sets I have (the Audio-Technica ATH-AD700 you linked are too expensive at £90).

What would you recommend at about this price?

Also, having done some back to back listening with the two sets i own and I now prefer my Senns to my Technics (clearer, more open and defined sound vs muggy)

I am not an expert in headphones. I doubt anyone is, there is just too many of them.

 

[Tiamat]

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: smugboy
sdifox - had fun with the links:

Grado GS1000 only £900 - bargain!

They also had Sennheiser HD201 for £15. I've actually got a set of these that I had relegated to my old PC as I was dissapointed when I brought them as an upgrade to a similarly priced set of Technics RP-F200s. The Sennheisers just looked and felt cheaper.

I went on a bit of a review search and checked out the Senn 515s as well as both the pairs I currently own. All sets had a similar range of reviews from glowing praise to good, but with one or two minor weaknesses (you mentioned that I should test them not rely on reviews, but i'm a dedicated internet shopper).

Now i'm confused - I want to spend up to ~£50 and get a decent upgrade in quality over the 2 sets I have (the Audio-Technica ATH-AD700 you linked are too expensive at £90).

What would you recommend at about this price?

Also, having done some back to back listening with the two sets i own and I now prefer my Senns to my Technics (clearer, more open and defined sound vs muggy)

I am not an expert in headphones. I doubt anyone is, there is just too many of them.

Chances of finding someone like that would be at headfi forums.

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: Tiamat

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: smugboy
sdifox - had fun with the links:

Grado GS1000 only £900 - bargain!

They also had Sennheiser HD201 for £15. I've actually got a set of these that I had relegated to my old PC as I was dissapointed when I brought them as an upgrade to a similarly priced set of Technics RP-F200s. The Sennheisers just looked and felt cheaper.

I went on a bit of a review search and checked out the Senn 515s as well as both the pairs I currently own. All sets had a similar range of reviews from glowing praise to good, but with one or two minor weaknesses (you mentioned that I should test them not rely on reviews, but i'm a dedicated internet shopper).

Now i'm confused - I want to spend up to ~£50 and get a decent upgrade in quality over the 2 sets I have (the Audio-Technica ATH-AD700 you linked are too expensive at £90).

What would you recommend at about this price?

Also, having done some back to back listening with the two sets i own and I now prefer my Senns to my Technics (clearer, more open and defined sound vs muggy)

I am not an expert in headphones. I doubt anyone is, there is just too many of them.

Chances of finding someone like that would be at headfi forums.

My dad used to run an electronics retailer/mid leve distributor. I grew up amongst solder and resin. I thin we had 200 different headphones in stock. Our 4 story building is essentially store/residence/warehouse. We even installed a freight lift I used to run 4 quadraphonic system we have on display at the same time. Pure noise

But I digress. I agree headfi would be the place to go for some informed narrowing down.

 

[smugboy]

Bought the Sennheiser HD 555s from Amazon

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: smugboy
Bought the Sennheiser HD 555s from Amazon

Do report back on your impressions. I think the 555 doesn't need amp to work well.

 

[smugboy]

I also read that they don't need/benefit much from an amp, which is handy as I've not got one

Might be a while before I can report back on the phones - Wifey has decided they are going to be a Christmas present

I can say that the X-Fi makes a big difference over onboard even using my existing headphones. Music is clearer & more detailed, and I'm really enjoying going back through my music collection. I was also shocked by the difference it made in games. I loaded one of my Crysis save games where I am being attacked by a helecopter, and as I had hoped the poor 3D sound effect had been fixed. Previously the helicopter sound just flopped from left to right very poorly, which sounded bad, but also meant I couldn't locate it easliy and got shot. Now, not only does the helicopter smoothly transition, but it seams like every sound effect in the game has been massively upgraded.

I'm also getting worried about what has started here - found myself trawling over M-Audio's homepage eying the speakers with lustfull intent...