Advice Wanted: ~$1000 Canadian mITX Skylake Build (Now Haswell)

[Newfie]

Hello!

I would love to have my build critiqued before I bite the bullet. I'm going mITX as I live in an apartment in which all space is "shared", so I may be moving the desktop around as needed.

• Goal: Primarily 1080p/60 gaming at high-ultra settings.
• Build should be small and quiet.
• Needs to have Wifi
• No brand preferences
• Budget <= $1100.
• I have no intention of overclocking anything outside of the video card.

Question: Will the i5-6400 be slower than the i5-4460? I know clock speeds are not everything and the newer skylake processor will bring new optimizations, but there is a significant decrease in clockspeed for the same price point (3.2GHz vs 2.7GHz). I decided to go for Skylake as it will be a while till I upgrade again and I would like the flexibility that the new 1151 chipset will afford.

Cheers!

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

13% sales tax included

CPU: Intel Core i5-6400 2.7GHz Quad-Core Processor ($276.83 @ NCIX)
Motherboard: ASRock H170M-ITX/ac Mini ITX LGA1151 Motherboard ($156.47 @ Newegg Canada)
Memory: Radeon 8GB DDR4-2400 Memory(1 x 8GB) ($67.79 @ NCIX)
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($134.84 @ Amazon Canada)
Video Card: XFX Radeon R9 380 4GB Double Dissipation Video Card ($305.10 @ NCIX)
Case: Cooler Master Elite 130 Mini ITX Tower Case ($76.82 @ NCIX)
Power Supply: Cooler Master 650W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($81.68 @ NCIX)
Total: $1099.53
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-10-12 15:00 EDT-0400


***Alternative Haswell Build***
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4590 3.3GHz Quad-Core Processor ($288.13 @ DirectCanada)
Motherboard: ASRock H97M-ITX/AC Mini ITX LGA1150 Motherboard ($139.69 @ Vuugo)
Memory: Patriot Signature 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($56.47 @ DirectCanada)
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($134.84 @ Amazon Canada)
Video Card: XFX Radeon R9 380 4GB Double Dissipation Video Card ($307.69)
Case: Cooler Master Elite 130 Mini ITX Tower Case ($75.98 @ DirectCanada)
Power Supply: Cooler Master 650W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($81.68 @ NCIX)
Total: $1084.48
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-10-12 16:13 EDT-0400

***Alternative Haswell Build #2 (Newest)***

NOTE: I will likely be using second hand DDR3 that costs next to nothing, so memory will not be included.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4590 3.3GHz Quad-Core Processor ($293.78 @ NCIX)
Motherboard: ASRock H97M-ITX/AC Mini ITX LGA1150 Motherboard ($139.69 @ Vuugo)
Storage: Crucial BX100 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($117.99 @ Amazon Canada)
Video Card: XFX Radeon R9 390 8GB Double Dissipation Video Card ($443.30)
Case: Cooler Master Elite 130 Mini ITX Tower Case ($76.82 @ NCIX)
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA GS 550W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($93.64)
Total: $1165.22
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-10-13 13:41 EDT-0400

Due to issues with PCPartPicker, the prices (before tax) are also shown below

CPU: i5-4590 (NCIX @ $259.99)
Motherboard: ASRock H97M-ITX/AC (Vuugo @ $125.00 After rebate)
Storage: Crucial BX100 250GB SSD (Amazon Canada @ $104.42)
Video Card: XFX Radeon R9 390 8GB (CanadaComputers @ $390.00 After rebate)
Case: Cooler Master Elite 130 (NCIX @ $64.99)
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA GS550 (CanadaComputers @ $79.99 After rebate)

 

[Burpo]

i5 6500 $199
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...nbxyPo_ffrF8D5nDqbE6gaAvyH8P8HAQ&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

[Newfie]

i5 6500 $199
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...nbxyPo_ffrF8D5nDqbE6gaAvyH8P8HAQ&gclsrc=aw.ds

This is a Canadian build. Cheapest i5-6500 is approximately $316.40 after tax. Would I see any benefit in spending $40 more to upgrade to the i5-6500?

 

[Termie]

The problem with the 6400 isn't so much that it's slower than the 6500 (it is, by 200MHz under a quad-core load, which is the only metric that really matters), but that it's significantly slower than the cheaper Core i5-4590.

My advice - don't buy into the Skylake hype for this particular build. The prices are way too high to justify using this platform.

As an aside, I'd consider going with a GTX 970, which is about 40% faster than the R9 380. 60fps/1080p at ultra doesn't come easy for an R9 380 in the newest games. The PSU you're using has far more wattage than you need, so consider trimming there to apply funds to the GPU. A 450W model will do just fine.

 

[Newfie]

The problem with the 6400 isn't so much that it's slower than the 6500 (it is, by 200MHz under a quad-core load, which is the only metric that really matters), but that it's significantly slower than the cheaper Core i5-4590.

My advice - don't buy into the Skylake hype for this particular build. The prices are way too high to justify using this platform.

As an aside, I'd consider going with a GTX 970, which is about 40% faster than the R9 380. 60fps/1080p at ultra doesn't come easy for an R9 380 in the newest games. The PSU you're using has far more wattage than you need, so consider trimming there to apply funds to the GPU. A 450W model will do just fine.

Thank you for the information!

The i5-4590 is approximately the same price as the i5-6400 here in Canada when buying new. Thanks for the heads up on the performance disparity. I'll make a new build around the i5-4590 and post it below.

Also, I chose that PSU as it is one of the cheapest semi-modular options. I know the CM Elite 130 is a small chassis so I was hoping to free up space wherever possible. I could save a few dollars by going with the Corsair CX500M...but I know that people tend to avoid recommending that PSU.

The cheapest GTX 970 that I can find is a blower style Gigabyte for 374.99 AR (~$424 after tax). I would be spending 40% more for 40% more performance. I'll check around for other sales (not optimistic due to the piss poor Canadian dollar) and for a used 970 or 390.

Here is a quick new build:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4590 3.3GHz Quad-Core Processor ($288.13 @ DirectCanada)
Motherboard: ASRock H97M-ITX/AC Mini ITX LGA1150 Motherboard ($139.69 @ Vuugo)
Memory: Patriot Signature 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($56.47 @ DirectCanada)
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($134.84 @ Amazon Canada)
Video Card: XFX Radeon R9 380 4GB Double Dissipation Video Card ($307.69)
Case: Cooler Master Elite 130 Mini ITX Tower Case ($75.98 @ DirectCanada)
Power Supply: Cooler Master 650W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($81.68 @ NCIX)
Total: $1084.48
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-10-12 16:13 EDT-0400

 

[Termie]

I use a CX500M and think it's fine. I'm not sure the Cooler Master is actually any better, so the corsair can stay on your list of options.

 

[vailr]

Check Amazon.ca for a used GTX 970, especially the refurbs sold by "Amazon Warehouse".
Note: the OP's first build listed includes a single stick of DDR4.
It's usually best to (instead) use memory in matched pairs.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

The Elite 130 is so big and ugly though... you should get an SG05. :biggrin:

Or an SG08 if you really can't budget for a high end SFX PSU.

 

[Newfie]

I use a CX500M and think it's fine. I'm not sure the Cooler Master is actually any better, so the corsair can stay on your list of options.

Good to know! Thank you!

Check Amazon.ca for a used GTX 970, especially the refurbs sold by "Amazon Warehouse".
Note: the OP's first build listed includes a single stick of DDR4.
It's usually best to (instead) use memory in matched pairs.

Also great information, thanks!

The Elite 130 is so big and ugly though... you should get an SG05.

Or an SG08 if you really can't budget for a high end SFX PSU.

You are the first person I've heard call the Elite 130 large and ugly, haha. What about the Sugo SG13? That's a tiny package that looks great!

 

[Termie]

SG13 would be great, just watch your video card length. Over 10.5" will not fit. Rules out all 290/390 models. Gigabyte 390 might fit, but very close, and open air design will be terrible in SG13.

 

[lehtv]

Definitely no CX series or other sub par PSU for a $1K build. CX uses poor quality CapXon capacitors (some of them rated only at 85C) and a sleeve bearing fan. It's mainly worth buying on sale prices for budget builds. G650M isn't any better, also uses el cheapo CapXons and the primary capacitor is only 85C rated. The fan is a long life ball bearing one though which is OK, but that alone doesn't make it worth buying.

Get EVGA 550GS, and a case that can fit an ATX unit. This is on a whole other level in terms of quality, as it's based on the Seasonic G-series platform, the capacitors are all 105C rated Japanese, and it's fully modular which is useful for an ITX build. The fan bearing is technically a sleeve bearing but allegedly modified for longer life, see JG review. The budget is a little too tight to accommodate a $125 SX500-LG, though that's still fine if you're willing to go over budget.

 

[Newfie]

Definitely no CX series or other sub par PSU for a $1K build. CX uses poor quality CapXon capacitors (some of them rated only at 85C) and a sleeve bearing fan. It's mainly worth buying on sale prices for budget builds. G650M isn't any better, also uses el cheapo CapXons and the primary capacitor is only 85C rated. The fan is a long life ball bearing one though which is OK, but that alone doesn't make it worth buying.

Get EVGA 550GS, and a case that can fit an ATX unit. This is on a whole other level in terms of quality, as it's based on the Seasonic G-series platform, the capacitors are all 105C rated Japanese, and it's fully modular which is useful for an ITX build. The fan bearing is technically a sleeve bearing but allegedly modified for longer life, see JG review. The budget is a little too tight to accommodate a $125 SX500-LG, though that's still fine if you're willing to go over budget.

Thanks for the help!

How about an EVGA Supernova 750w B2. While the wattage is unnessessarly high it has a rebate that makes its only slightly more expensive than the CX500.

Luckily, the CM Elite 130 has a PSU bracket so it can accommodate an ATX PSU.

 

[lehtv]

http://techreport.com/review/26891/cooler-master-elite-110-mini-itx-case-reviewed
"The Elite 110 can handle ATX PSUs up to 7.1" (180 mm) in length, although Cooler Master recommends a standard 5.6" (142-mm) PSU length to allow room for cable routing. "

EVGA 750W B2 is 180mm long. You simply won't have space for cable routing.

EVGA 550 GS on the other hand is only 150mm long. Its cable lengths are designed to accommodate normal ATX cases, but thankfully all cables apart from the main ATX cable are flat cables that take little space when folded.

 

[Termie]

The Elite 130 really isn't that compact for an ITX build. This may be what one previous poster was getting at.

If you go for the SG13 and the EVGA GS series you'll probably be happier overall. Just note that it doesn't come with a fan, and even with a fan, the airflow is very limited. I'd pair it with a GTX960, or if you have the budget for it, an externally-exhausting 970 model like the EVGA GTX 970 SC: http://www.evga.com/Products/Product.aspx?pn=04G-P4-1972-KR

Even with the 970, you'll never top 250W, which is why you really shouldn't be considering big 750W PSUs.

 

[lehtv]

Sorry I looked at Elite 110 for some reason. Elite 130 has that same max. 180mm PSU restriction, but I'd rather have some more room and pick the 150mm long 550 GS.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

You are the first person I've heard call the Elite 130 large and ugly, haha. What about the Sugo SG13? That's a tiny package that looks great!

I'm only half serious. I have an SG05 rig, and when I got to MicroCenter and see the 130 on display, it just looks huuuuge.

But I know, intellectually, that it's really not THAT big a case. And it's affordable, and being able to use ATX PSUs is nice.

 

[Newfie]

Thank you all for your comments. I took the advice in this thread and made adjustments as needed. I may be able to get 8GB of DDR3 ram second hand for next to nothing, so it wont be included in this next list.

Here is the updated part list so far!

Any suitable alternatives for the CM Elite 130 that has good airflow? My aspirations are still small, portable and quiet....which I know are characteristics that may not easily be balanced with powerful hardware. I note that the SG13 or the SG05 may not be appropriate when using a R9 390.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4590 3.3GHz Quad-Core Processor ($293.78 @ NCIX)
Motherboard: ASRock H97M-ITX/AC Mini ITX LGA1150 Motherboard ($139.69 @ Vuugo)
Storage: Crucial BX100 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($117.99 @ Amazon Canada)
Video Card: XFX Radeon R9 390 8GB Double Dissipation Video Card ($443.30 @ CanadaComputers)
Case: Cooler Master Elite 130 Mini ITX Tower Case ($76.82 @ NCIX)
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA GS 550W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($93.64 @ CanadaComputers)
Total: $1165.22
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-10-13 13:41 EDT-0400

 

[lehtv]

Any suitable alternatives for the CM Elite 130 that has good airflow? My aspirations are still small, portable and quiet....

Well you don't really need to improve that airflow. The graphics card will be getting fresh air directly through the mesh, so you don't have to worry about providing airflow to it. The existing 120mm and 80mm fans are plenty for cooling the rest of the PC, even if you quiet them down with motherboard fan control.

I think the Elite 130 is your best bet. Cheap and functional. Thermaltake Core V1 is in the same price bracket and with similar compatibility, but it's a little bigger still.

CPU: Intel Core i5-4590 3.3GHz Quad-Core Processor ($293.78 @ NCIX)
Motherboard: ASRock H97M-ITX/AC Mini ITX LGA1150 Motherboard ($139.69 @ Vuugo)
Storage: Crucial BX100 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($117.99 @ Amazon Canada)
Video Card: XFX Radeon R9 390 8GB Double Dissipation Video Card ($443.30 @ CanadaComputers)
Case: Cooler Master Elite 130 Mini ITX Tower Case ($76.82 @ NCIX)
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA GS 550W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($93.64 @ CanadaComputers)

Not bad. I'm just wondering about those prices.. they're not at all the same behind those links, did you manually add sales tax to each part or something? Also, XFX R9 390 only lists newegg as a seller.

 

[Newfie]

Well you don't really need to improve that airflow. The graphics card will be getting fresh air directly through the mesh, so you don't have to worry about providing airflow to it. The existing 120mm and 80mm fans are plenty for cooling the rest of the PC, even if you quiet them down with motherboard fan control.



Not bad. I'm just wondering about those prices.. they're not at all the same behind those links, did you manually add sales tax to each part or something? Also, XFX R9 390 only lists newegg as a seller.

Yes, I had to manually add prices as PCPartPicker seems to mishandle some websites (especially CanadaComputers). 13% sales tax has also been applied to all of the PCPartPicker prices (it's a feature under account settings).

I've attached direct links below with prices before taxes.

i5-4590 (NCIX @ $259.99)
ASRock H97M-ITX/AC (Vuugo @ $125.00 After rebate)
Cooler Master Elite 130 (NCIX @ $64.99)
XFX Radeon R9 390 8GB (CanadaComputers @ $390.00 After rebate)
EVGA SuperNOVA GS550 (CanadaComputers @ $79.99 After rebate)
Crucial BX100 250GB SSD (Amazon Canada @ $104.42)

 

[lehtv]

Those look like your best bang for buck parts, can't think of anything to change.

FWIW I just ordered the same graphics card here in Finland, cost me only 330 euros incl 24% tax, which is amazing given that the next cheapest R9 390 is 350 euros, and the same XFX Core is at least 360 euros in competing shops. I reckon with the high amount of VRAM, good resolution scaling, FreeSync and VR support - this card is going to keep for a long time. Something I'll do when I get it: compare the gaming experience on 144hz no sync (BenQ XL2411T) vs 35-75Hz FreeSync (AOC G2460VQ6, to be available this month).

 

[Newfie]

Those look like your best bang for buck parts, can't think of anything to change.

FWIW I just ordered the same graphics card here in Finland, cost me only 330 euros incl 24% tax, which is amazing given that the next cheapest R9 390 is 350 euros, and the same XFX Core is at least 360 euros in competing shops. I reckon with the high amount of VRAM, good resolution scaling, FreeSync and VR support - this card is going to keep for a long time. Something I'll do when I get it: compare the gaming experience on 144hz no sync (BenQ XL2411T) vs 35-75Hz FreeSync (AOC G2460VQ6, to be available this month).

Awesome! I hope the card works well for you! I had a 6850 up until this point and it lasted quite well over the years. I cannot imagine a r9 390 aging poorly.

Quick question. Do you know if a r9 390 will choke in the mITX environment of the Elite 130? I am searching google and I get some varied answers. I can switch to a EVGA 970 SSC for a little bit more and I know there will be a nice drop in heat output.

 

[lehtv]

Do you know if a r9 390 will choke in the mITX environment of the Elite 130?

I doubt it because you're not relying purely on case intake fans for cool air.

 

[Termie]

The issue isn't intake, it's exhaust. The R9 390 will generate a huge amount of heat, and it will be pushed right up against the PSU. The heat will quickly overwhelm the stock Intel CPU cooler. There's very little room for air to move in this case, and there are no large exhaust fans either, just a tiny 80mm fan near the CPU.

I'd recommend the 970 in this case, and that's based on my experience building lots of ITX systems with high-end video cards, including the 980 Ti.

 

[crashtech]

I missed the part where it was decided to go for a last gen platform on a new build. Was Skylake too expensive?

 

[Newfie]

The issue isn't intake, it's exhaust. The R9 390 will generate a huge amount of heat, and it will be pushed right up against the PSU. The heat will quickly overwhelm the stock Intel CPU cooler. There's very little room for air to move in this case, and there are no large exhaust fans either, just a tiny 80mm fan near the CPU.

I'd recommend the 970 in this case, and that's based on my experience building lots of ITX systems with high-end video cards, including the 980 Ti.

Any recommendations for a SSF case that will accommodate a R9 390?

I missed the part where it was decided to go for a last gen platform on a new build. Was Skylake too expensive?

Switching from Skylake to Haswell brought the overall cost down and so I used the extra funds to upgrade the GPU. The i5-6400 is approximately the same price as the i5-4590 (the 4590 is a better performer if I understand correctly).