After my arm workout - size is good but shoud I get more definition?

[alkemyst]

wrong place for this....just like a gun thread.

Still I would rate you above average on a guy on the street.

Don't forget that EVERYONE else online could out pose every Mr. Olympia ever! Those guys are just in it for the money and on roids!

 

[Nutdotnet]

Originally posted by: aCynic2

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: FleshLight
How does everyone get huge lats? Just keep a religiou shrug workout?

Shrugs work your traps. Deadlifts work them even better.

Nah, deadlifts are posterior chain exercise: hams, glutes, a bit of lumber.

Farmer walks would really work the upper traps.

Uh...not to say that Farmer walks aren't good, but deads are fantastic for working your traps...they're a fantastic exercise period!

Deadlifts > Farmer walks, shrugs, anything else I can think of....

Edit- your avatar on that men's health forum is HILARIOUS!

 

[Special K]

Originally posted by: aCynic2

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: FleshLight
How does everyone get huge lats? Just keep a religiou shrug workout?

Shrugs work your traps. Deadlifts work them even better.

Nah, deadlifts are posterior chain exercise: hams, glutes, a bit of lumber.

Farmer walks would really work the upper traps.

While I won't deny that farmer walks are also good, I have had good results with deadlifts as a traps exercise, along all of the other muscles it works. It's my all time favorite lift.

 

[HamSupLo]

you're huge, dude!

 

[Nutdotnet]

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: aCynic2

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: FleshLight
How does everyone get huge lats? Just keep a religiou shrug workout?

Shrugs work your traps. Deadlifts work them even better.

Nah, deadlifts are posterior chain exercise: hams, glutes, a bit of lumber.

Farmer walks would really work the upper traps.

While I won't deny that farmer walks are also good, I have had good results with deadlifts as a traps exercise, along all of the other muscles it works. It's my all time favorite lift.

Agreed....I <3 Deadlifts...

Oh, and aCynic2...what exactly are you referring to when you say "upper traps"...are traps an muscles similar to say, a deltoid (where there are more than one part) or are you referring to "upper traps" the same way a "bodybuilder" would say, "do inclines to really bring out definition in your upper chest"?

 

[RallyMaster]

why does one need those muscles other than to show off to women?

 

[mrkun]

Originally posted by: RallyMaster
why does one need those muscles other than to show off to women?

Umm, that's really the only reason to get buff in the first place.

 

[mrkun]

Originally posted by: Nutdotnet
Agreed....I <3 Deadlifts...

Oh, and aCynic2...what exactly are you referring to when you say "upper traps"...are traps an muscles similar to say, a deltoid (where there are more than one part) or are you referring to "upper traps" the same way a "bodybuilder" would say, "do inclines to really bring out definition in your upper chest"?

http://www.exrx.net/Muscles/TrapeziusUpper.html

 

[TallBill]

I like Leg extensions the most. I do them after squats, and 9 sets of em. 3 with feet up and down, 3 with feet pointed out, 3 pointed in.

Deadlifts are my secon favorite though

 

[aCynic2]

Originally posted by: Nutdotnet
Oh, and aCynic2...what exactly are you referring to when you say "upper traps"...are traps an muscles similar to say, a deltoid (where there are more than one part) or are you referring to "upper traps" the same way a "bodybuilder" would say, "do inclines to really bring out definition in your upper chest"?

http://www.exrx.net/Lists/ExList/BackWt.html#anchor1914548

This shows all three, but really, the middle and lower fibers of the traps get worked by the same exercises.

It's the upper fibers that are distinguishable and shrugs work them.

 

[aCynic2]

Originally posted by: TallBill
I like Leg extensions the most. I do them after squats, and 9 sets of em. 3 with feet up and down, 3 with feet pointed out, 3 pointed in.

Leg extensions are bad. No real pro recommends them, not even for rehabilitation. They place too much sheer stress on the medial and lateral tendons of the knees.

Also, no real pro recommends leg press, leg curl, curling in general or using machines such as the pec dec, leg press, etc.

 

[Tommouse]

Originally posted by: aCynic2

Originally posted by: TheNinja
well my splits change up - and I'm not sure they are "retarded" . I don't like to do the same splits all the time.
My diet is decent. I try to stay away from saturated fats, sugars, white flours, etc.

A full-body provides a better hormonal response for growth. I've experienced a great deal of strength gain on a full-body done 3x/week.

Saturated fats are not bad. I and all the elders at Men's Health have restated this more times than I can remember. They should make up 1/3 of your fat intake.

Avoiding sugars is ok...I suppose, but I'll pick up a few krispy kremes every couple weeks, so rather than avoiding entirely, I make it something I have in moderation.

I agree on the white flour, however, it's entirely acceptable as part of the PWO feeding.

PWO = around 60g dextrose/maltodextrin mix, 25g whey protein, 15g milk protein

Workout advice from various websites and my personal experiences. I'm always open to new ideas though.

The proportions are correct on the PWO drink. Do you have it in milk or water?

Too many websites are put on by people who don't know squat! I'm serious.

I assembled the following sticky at the Men's Health forums because I got tired of answering the same questions over and over. It's fairly complete, though I haven't updated in a while and it needs it. It has lot of workouts in the second post, free and professionally designed. I recommend them.

http://forums.menshealth.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/855109121/m/156108723

Also, a couple books highly recommended:

"Muscle Revolution," Chad Waterbury
"New Rules of Lifting," Lou Schuler and Alwn Cosgrove (I'm doing this one and fcking lovin' it).

I just read stuff off that link for the past 3 hours. Thanks

Oh yea ... you're a monster man!

 

[aCynic2]

Originally posted by: Tommouse
I just read stuff off that link for the past 3 hours. Thanks

Oh yea ... you're a monster man!

Take some time to read Berardi's articles on nutrition:

Articles

In particular, this is a goodie:
7 Habits of Highly Effective Nutrition Programs

But he has articles for any goal: fat loss, mass gain, optimal eating for any goal, etc.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: aCynic2


A full-body provides a better hormonal response for growth. I've experienced a great deal of strength gain on a full-body done 3x/week.

Sorry, but I gotta disagree. Especially for someone going heavy and to failure.

And the older you get, the worse that advise is since recovery times get longer, the older you get. I see nothing but overtraining from something like that long term. It may work for a young newbie, but not for anyone advanced or older.

 

[aCynic2]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: aCynic2


A full-body provides a better hormonal response for growth. I've experienced a great deal of strength gain on a full-body done 3x/week.

Sorry, but I gotta disagree. Especially for someone going heavy and to failure.

You shouldn't be going to failure often. That will lead to neural fatigue and over training. The symptoms are disrupted sleep patterns, slow concentrics, irritability, etc.

Lifting weight is a stressful activity, in that it adds stress to the body and over doing it consistently leads to the same potential neural breakdown.

So then it becomes not a matter of lifting full-body 3x/week, but rather lifting stupidly: to failure, without a good plan/program, etc.

And as far as the older you get nonsense you're spouting, I know a 58yr old man, hasn't missed a workout in years, deadlifting 405, >300 for reps, does a full-body 3x/week.

I'm 42 and doing pretty well. So before you start saying we over 30s are getting to old to be doing this, you need to check your attitude and prejudice.

 

[CalvinHobbs]

Originally posted by: TheNinja
It's me, Ya I used a camera phone....big whoop, wanna fight about it? - Paddy Tanninger.


http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/9773/0504071621eo1.jpg

edit: added 5/5
http://img386.imageshack.us/img386/825/0504071621ajd6.jpg

hard to take a pic of yourself
http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/1791/0505071135noheadum4.jpg

what are your arm routines?

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: aCynic2

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: aCynic2


A full-body provides a better hormonal response for growth. I've experienced a great deal of strength gain on a full-body done 3x/week.

Sorry, but I gotta disagree. Especially for someone going heavy and to failure.

You shouldn't be going to failure often. That will lead to neural fatigue and over training. The symptoms are disrupted sleep patterns, slow concentrics, irritability, etc.

Lifting weight is a stressful activity, in that it adds stress to the body and over doing it consistently leads to the same potential neural breakdown.

So then it becomes not a matter of lifting full-body 3x/week, but rather lifting stupidly: to failure, without a good plan/program, etc.

And as far as the older you get nonsense you're spouting, I know a 58yr old man, hasn't missed a workout in years, deadlifting 405, >300 for reps, does a full-body 3x/week.

I'm 42 and doing pretty well. So before you start saying we over 30s are getting to old to be doing this, you need to check your attitude and prejudice.

I'll be 40 this year. I know a bit about over-training.

And I believe my results speak for themselves. You can try and claim I lift "stupidly" but in reality, I minimize everything except intensity. Frequency, sets and reps are all minimized and intensity is maximized.

BTW, I'm 100% natural having taken only Creatine and Protien...

http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Amused/back2.jpg

http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Amused/IMG_0438.JPG

http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Amused/IMG_0672.JPG

But apparently I'm lifting stupid and don't know what I'm doing, right?

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: aCynic2

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: aCynic2


A full-body provides a better hormonal response for growth. I've experienced a great deal of strength gain on a full-body done 3x/week.

Sorry, but I gotta disagree. Especially for someone going heavy and to failure.

You shouldn't be going to failure often. That will lead to neural fatigue and over training. The symptoms are disrupted sleep patterns, slow concentrics, irritability, etc.

Lifting weight is a stressful activity, in that it adds stress to the body and over doing it consistently leads to the same potential neural breakdown.

So then it becomes not a matter of lifting full-body 3x/week, but rather lifting stupidly: to failure, without a good plan/program, etc.

And as far as the older you get nonsense you're spouting, I know a 58yr old man, hasn't missed a workout in years, deadlifting 405, >300 for reps, does a full-body 3x/week.

I'm 42 and doing pretty well. So before you start saying we over 30s are getting to old to be doing this, you need to check your attitude and prejudice.

I'll be 40 this year. I know a bit about over-training.

And I believe my results speak for themselves. You can try and claim I lift "stupidly" but in reality, I minimize everything except intensity. Frequency, sets and reps are all minimized and intensity is maximized.

BTW, I'm 100% natural having taken only Creatine and Protien...

http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Amused/back2.jpg

http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Amused/IMG_0438.JPG

But apparently I'm lifting stupid and don't know what I'm doing, right?

Musclehead fight aka the battle of the egos!!! Show that pic of your ass, that'll let him know whose boss:laugh:

 

[aCynic2]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Musclehead fight aka the battle of the egos!!! Show that pic of your ass, that'll let him know whose boss:laugh:

NO!!! I ain't interested in seeing that!

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: aCynic2

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Musclehead fight aka the battle of the egos!!! Show that pic of your ass, that'll let him know whose boss:laugh:

NO!!! I ain't interested in seeing that!

http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Amused/IMG_0672.JPG

 

[aCynic2]

Originally posted by: Amused
I'll be 40 this year. I know a bit about over-training.

And I believe my results speak for themselves. You can try and claim I lift "stupidly" but in reality, I minimize everything except intensity. Frequency, sets and reps are all minimized and intensity is maximized.

I'm more inclined to listen to Mike Robertson and Eric Cressey in this than you. It comes down to, everything works, nothing works forever and there are some methods much more efficient. Again, there are several research pieces showing full-bodies, 3x/week is much more effective, by virtue of frequency and greater hormone production.

As far as being natural, only protein and creatine, that's fine, but that was never part of the discussion any more than my cup of coffee.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: aCynic2

Originally posted by: Amused
I'll be 40 this year. I know a bit about over-training.

And I believe my results speak for themselves. You can try and claim I lift "stupidly" but in reality, I minimize everything except intensity. Frequency, sets and reps are all minimized and intensity is maximized.

I'm more inclined to listen to Mike Robertson and Eric Cressey in this than you. It comes down to, everything works, nothing works forever and there are some methods much more efficient. Again, there are several research pieces showing full-bodies, 3x/week is much more effective, by virtue of frequency and greater hormone production.

As far as being natural, only protein and creatine, that's fine, but that was never part of the discussion any more than my cup of coffee.

You can listen to whomever you want.

I know from experience that full body workouts do NOT work for long, nor will one get results like mine. Muscles need time to recover and there is NO way a person can give each body part the intensity needed when working all of them in the same workout.

If you want maximum size and strength, full body workouts are a waste of time. There is no way a person who is not juicing can reach their full size and strength potential with frequency like that and not being able to give nearly the intensity needed for each muscle group.

There are several research pieces showing a LOT of things when it comes to fitness. One thing you will quickly learn is 90% of it is bullsh!t.

And all natural was relevant to my rebutal... lest you claim I'm juicing and anything I do will give me results.

Anyhow, my results speak for themselves. I did not get big until I split my workout into one body part, one day a week.

 

[aCynic2]

Originally posted by: Amused

I know from experience that full body workouts do NOT work for long, nor will one get results like mine.

Anecdotal evidence is as useful as personal opinions. You're saying what all the "Seen on TV" commercials say: it worked for me so it'll work for you. Since each person is different, what worked for you is guaranteed to not work for everyone and in fact, the research shows that full-bodies are beneficial for most, with the caveat the it won't work for all.

What you're advocating is obsolete and has been since the early to mid 90s. The only reason it hasn't totally died out is because people are stupid. They look at the juicers (Jay Cuttler, Ronnie Coleman, Arnold, etc) and figure they know what they are doing.

Muscles need time to recover and there is NO way a person can give each body part the intensity needed when working all of them in the same workout.

The only viable thing you said was recovery time. That is why you give 48 hours between workouts, m'kay? That is the recovery time.

If you want maximum size and strength, full body workouts are a waste of time. There is no way a person who is not juicing can reach their full size and strength potential with frequency like that and not being able to give nearly the intensity needed for each muscle group.

And this is where you're seriously FOS.

There are several research pieces showing a LOT of things when it comes to fitness. One thing you will quickly learn is 90% of it is bullsh!t.

Post yours, I'll post mine.

And all natural was relevant to my rebutal... lest you claim I'm juicing and anything I do will give me results.

You don't know me well enough to claim I'd say that. You're no near looking like you juice, ok? You look typical for someone who lifts for size and follows a proper diet. That's all. So don't start thinking you're phenomenal. You're average for the discipline.

ADDENDUM: Out of fairness, I'll correct what I said above. You're above average for someone who follows the discipline.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: aCynic2

Originally posted by: Amused

I know from experience that full body workouts do NOT work for long, nor will one get results like mine.

Anecdotal evidence is as useful as personal opinions. You're saying what all the "Seen on TV" commercials say: it worked for me so it'll work for you. Since each person is different, what worked for you is guaranteed to not work for everyone and in fact, the research shows that full-bodies are beneficial for most.

What you're advocating is obsolete and has been since the 90s.

Muscles need time to recover and there is NO way a person can give each body part the intensity needed when working all of them in the same workout.

The only viable thing you said was recovery time. That is why you give 48 hours between workouts, m'kay? That is the recovery time.

If you want maximum size and strength, full body workouts are a waste of time. There is no way a person who is not juicing can reach their full size and strength potential with frequency like that and not being able to give nearly the intensity needed for each muscle group.

And this is where you're seriously FOS.

There are several research pieces showing a LOT of things when it comes to fitness. One thing you will quickly learn is 90% of it is bullsh!t.

Post yours, I'll post mine.

And all natural was relevant to my rebutal... lest you claim I'm juicing and anything I do will give me results.

You don't know me well enough to claim I'd say that. You're no near looking like you juice, ok? You look typical for someone who lifts for size and follows a proper diet. That's all. So don't start thinking you're phenomenal. You're average for the discipline.

Um, actually with 19+" arms, and a 48" chest with a 33" waist, I'd say I'm in the top 10% of natural body builders in size and proportions. Yes, I am genetically gifted, but then, so is anyone who can get big naturally.

I am ANYTHING but typical for an all natural weight lifter. Nice try, but I know better.

You can tell me I'm full of sh!t all day long. Care to match size and strength results? The proof is in the pudding, so to speak.

 

[aCynic2]

Originally posted by: AmusedI am ANYTHING but typical for an all natural weight lifter. Nice try, but I know better.

You can tell me I'm full of sh!t all day long. Care to match size and strength results? The proof is in the pudding, so to speak.

In order for such a comparison to be valid, we would have to have similar starting parameters, similar training ages, etc. A case of all things being equal. You should know this.