After seeing recent events, I've come to a personal conclusion....

Triloby

Senior member
Mar 18, 2016
587
275
136
Donald Trump is not as stupid as people think he is.

Yes, the man has a nasty habit of saying things before he speaks, and he's very brash when bringing up any issues related to immigration or foreign policy. Let's not forget how he initially responded on the issue of women getting illegal abortions.

And yet, despite his incompetence and cluelessness on certain topics, he's proven that he knows how to sell himself as "presidential material". The most important thing I've understood about all presidential candidates is how good their ability is to sell and advertise themselves to the American public. So far, only Clinton and Trump have proven themselves to be able to sell themselves to the public at large. It doesn't matter that those two are on complete opposite sides. It also doesn't matter if their "presidential material" that they're selling may or may not be good to America's overall future, they both have certain advantages: Hillary has the prestige and history of her last name (as well as her political career), and Trump is a wealthy businessman who's well known for selling a name, a certain image so to speak.

Even though Bernard Sanders (and no, it's not Bernie) isn't successful enough to defeat either Clinton or Trump at the polls, he's proven that he can also successfully sell himself as "presidential material" (mostly due to his political history and his fervent attitude on specific ideals and beliefs). That said, regardless of how these guys sell themselves, it's all a matter of gathering up enough votes through whatever means possible when convincing people to vote for you. Sometimes, you'll be able to convince certain people to vote for you. Other times, you'll end up attracting a group of people you may not want to be identified with. At the worst, you gain very little to no supporters at all. The final results from the polls speak for themselves.

Think about this: what comes to you mind when you hear the word "Trump" (apart from "egotistical blowhard" )? Money, power, luxury, flamboyance, etc. In other words, all the things that Trump has and that you can physically observe at a casual glance. However, it's not just his history and attitude that's making him successful.

He's also proven that he knows how to cunningly react, if not instigate, any opposition from his haters. Both Republicans and Democrats hate him. He's also not shy about calling for aggression amongst his supporters. He can put himself in the most unthinkable or most unwanted of situations and still manage to get out of it without losing his support. I mean, the man has about 1,000 or more delegates that have pledged to support him. The other GOP candidates haven't even come close to getting that many pledges, and they aren't as openly confrontational as Trump is.

My point is, Trump knows well enough how people can react and feel. He's cunningly good at manipulating people's thoughts and emotions among his supporters and haters. All the mud slinging he's dealt with (justified or not), his supporters seem him as a strong man. All the politically (and sometimes factually and mentally) incorrect things that he says, and his supporters see him as someone who's not afraid of speaking his mind on "taboo" topics. All the schoolyard insults that he gets, his supporters believe that their opposition is "jealous of him because he's successful, and they're not". The man is very good on peddling technical truths. If something is "technically true" on a minor detail, he will blow that technical truth out of proportion to make himself look good. It doesn't matter if he's wrong about it, if it gets him supporters then it's worked.

So if Trump is not as stupid as people thinks he is, does the "stupid" label not apply to anything else? WRONG. That label still applies, but to a different group of people.

The real "stupid" here is Trump's supporters. They are some of the most vindictive and overemotional idiots right now. They have no real reason to support Trump, and yet they do because of their incorrect assumption of what Trump believes or stands for. Trump is smart and successful enough to convince these idiots to vote against their own interests. He's a snake-oil salesman who has some gravitas to his personality. As long as Trump can successfully spite his opponents for whatever reason and try to embarrass them, his supporters are all A-OK with him. They'll ignore the fact that he's incapable of getting anything done as President and that he can easily break any promises made to them, because he can. Having second thoughts about Trump now? Too fucking bad. He's the President now, and you gotta deal with that for the next four years, or even eight years if he ever becomes THAT successful. They will support Trump because of their hatred for anything related to: big government, liberals, illegals, feminists, abortions, anti-gun people, etc. What they don't realize is that Trump doesn't truly care or believe in all of the things he's saying, and that Trump is just taking advantage of their vindictive, petty, and overemotional feelings. As long as his supporters believe that those "things" remain a huge problem in America, they'll vote for any snake-oil salesman who happens to stand against "those things". Of course, they won't be able to ever fix or deal with those things, but we all know just how short the attention-span of Americans are, right?

Just remember, this is all my personal view on Donald Trump.

TL;DR: Read the fucking post. inb4 obvious flaming and screaming....
 
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compuwiz1

Admin Emeritus Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
27,113
925
126
No flaming from me. Interesting thoughts, but you must certainly understand, as intelligent as you are, that Hillary embodies a lot of his same traits. It's gonna be a two devil match, it seems.
 

Charmonium

Diamond Member
May 15, 2015
9,583
2,946
136
OP - you're confusing Trump supporters with the general voting public and the two are light years apart.

Although I do admit that Trump is a master of manipulation and that most voters are susceptible of this sort of manipulation, the fact of the matter is that Hillary probably has him beat both in terms of Machiavellian aptitude as well as general intelligence. Even her opponents, for the most part, will agree with that assessment.

The only way that Hillary loses is if the people who would vote for her start to believe that Trump doesn't have a chance and therefore don't vote. But otherwise, Trump has already alienated too many important voting blocks. And while he may be able to mitigate some of the damage he's done, not everyone is as stupid as he would like to believe.
 

flexy

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2001
8,464
155
106
Correct, I wouldn't call Trump "stupid" even if in the past I might have done so. It's not the right expression.

You are right realizing that Trump only "functions", yes EXIST even because he resonates with his "not so smart" audience.

There could be a racist or whatever crazy having whatever ideas, without the people responsive to those ideas he'd be a nobody, not worth a second look.

So, saying the "Trump phenomenon" is not so much actually about him as a persona, that he is a racist or whatever, but HIS FOLLOWERS. It goes even so far that Trump is indeed so smart that he knows not to open his mouth too wide, he does not require to be outright racist in speeches etc....it's enough when he is subtle about it, the rest is created by his followers.

(This in response to the recent protests which are obviously "against Trump", but his sole persona is not the problem. You could magically snap with a finger and make Trump disappear, those people who'd wish to "shoot every liberal" and "deport any brown person" and think that they're "true Americans" because they're white, go to church and are conservative will still be there, WITH or WITHOUT Trump. Saying, the problem is much deeper than the persona Trump)

Trump, ultimately does exactly what politicians do, he tells people WHAT THEY WANT TO HEAR....so yes indeed he's a snake-oil salesman because he goes down the level where emotions are more important than issues, because this is what rings with his audience. Those are not stock brokers, billionaires, investors, owners of multi-billion dollar companies in Silicon Valley. Those are very, very average people who (due to their life's circumstances, work etc.) might have a VERY superficial and incomplete understanding of complex things like economics etc.. People who don't exactly read the WallStreet Journal.
And no question T knows this and he IS taking advantage of it. And because he does, and he does it brilliantly, he is not "stupid".
 

Triumph

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,031
13
81
I'm convinced Trump is running for president merely as a challenge to himself to see if he could do it, and how far he can take it. He doesn't really think most of the things that he is saying is true, he is just saying and doing whatever it takes to win. His own supporters are being manipulated, and his detractors are taking his troll-bait hook, line, and sinker.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,699
6,196
126
Trump is a highly successful person who has had so much ego gratification, so full of himself, that he has nothing left to achieve but work to make the country great that made him great. The nothings of the world don't see that because they are still full of ego hunger themselves instead of gratitude for a delicious meal. They see only themselves.

Trump has climbed the mountain and reaches for the stars. But unlike Obama, Trump will say fuck you to those who get in his way.
 

flexy

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2001
8,464
155
106
Trump is a highly successful person who has had so much ego gratification, so full of himself, that he has nothing left to achieve but work to make the country great that made him great.
[...]
Trump has climbed the mountain and reaches for the stars.

This is correct. The problem with this is that leading a nation of 300M people would demand a person who is, at least to some part, concerned about those 300M people.

For T, but also for HRC and probably MOST of the clowns it is merely about themselves, a personal challenge, something you do when you achieved anything else already. (Like the billionaire who spent his time riding balloons across the world, chasing one record after the other).

I don't think that Trump has actually internalized what it MEANS to be president of the US, respective he doesn't care about the responsibility part this position DOES imply. It's a circus where he is the star and everything revolves around him.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
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No flaming from me. Interesting thoughts, but you must certainly understand, as intelligent as you are, that Hillary embodies a lot of his same traits. It's gonna be a two devil match, it seems.

Exquisitely vague, of course. Hillary & Donald are the same how? Please explain.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
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This is correct. The problem with this is that leading a nation of 300M people would demand a person who is, at least to some part, concerned about those 300M people.

For T, but also for HRC and probably MOST of the clowns it is merely about themselves, a personal challenge, something you do when you achieved anything else already. (Like the billionaire who spent his time riding balloons across the world, chasing one record after the other).

I don't think that Trump has actually internalized what it MEANS to be president of the US, respective he doesn't care about the responsibility part this position DOES imply. It's a circus where he is the star and everything revolves around him.

It's a tribute to right wing propagandists that you'd put Clinton in the same ballpark as Trump.
 

bozack

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2000
7,913
12
81
It's a tribute to right wing propagandists that you'd put Clinton in the same ballpark as Trump.

you're not better, blind to her amazing shortcomings a failures...unable to see that she is equally unqualified and polarizing as Trump is....but not a surprise given how much of a given how committed you are to your side.
 

Indus

Lifer
May 11, 2002
10,418
7,053
136
OP is right, I'm not afraid of Trump as much as I am his supporters running wild with an anti-immigrant sentiment which clearly doesn't take into account legal immigrants who are not white.

If Trump wasn't inciting violence and had a legitimate reason to be President, I might be supporting him.

But make America Great Again is so fucking stupid because ask any country around the world would they love to be in our shoes? I guarantee you more than 95% of them will say yes.

So this is fear mongering to the base.. we've come to take our country back.. back to where, 1930's and the economic depression?

BTW Trump is lying in every sentence and only the gullible, weak and stupid are supporting him. This is just 1 lie:



But... The venue capacity is 8,200

OMG the sky is falling...
 
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DigDog

Lifer
Jun 3, 2011
13,622
2,189
126
Money, power, luxury, flamboyance, etc.

none of these things come to my mind when i think Trump. rather, far arrogant idiot with a toupee who couldn't business his way out of a paper bag.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
you're not better, blind to her amazing shortcomings a failures...unable to see that she is equally unqualified and polarizing as Trump is....but not a surprise given how much of a given how committed you are to your side.

Yes, yes- it's obvious that you live in the realm of simulated rationality- first believe, then attempt to justify faith cuz "reasons". What reasons? It's not like you know, but you're sure there must be some, otherwise you wouldn't believe, right?

Clinton is easily the most qualified candidate. She's been first lady of Arkansas & the US, a Senator, & SoS.

Trump has been an obnoxious & self indulgent rich kid with a flair for self promotion who makes his living peddling booze, gambling, get rich quick real estate scams & now bigotry. He's one of the greatest artists of today- con artists, that is.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,810
29,564
146
I'm convinced Trump is running for president merely as a challenge to himself to see if he could do it, and how far he can take it. He doesn't really think most of the things that he is saying is true, he is just saying and doing whatever it takes to win. His own supporters are being manipulated, and his detractors are taking his troll-bait hook, line, and sinker.

Prevailing theory now is that he is running simply because he is still completely butthurt from some good-natured ribbing a few years back, when he was a desperate hangers-on trying to get into the real power-broker club


The guy has notoriously thin skin, so that wouldn't be surprising. It launched him into his comical 2012 attempt, and now this semi-serious attempt in 2015-2016, that happened to coincide with a rather strange moment in public sentiment.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,810
29,564
146
you're not better, blind to her amazing shortcomings a failures...unable to see that she is equally unqualified and polarizing as Trump is....but not a surprise given how much of a given how committed you are to your side.

Hilary is as equally unqualified as Trump? by what possible metric can one make this claim?
 

Triloby

Senior member
Mar 18, 2016
587
275
136
OP - you're confusing Trump supporters with the general voting public and the two are light years apart.

Although I do admit that Trump is a master of manipulation and that most voters are susceptible of this sort of manipulation, the fact of the matter is that Hillary probably has him beat both in terms of Machiavellian aptitude as well as general intelligence. Even her opponents, for the most part, will agree with that assessment.

Well, I never said that the general public is entirely full of Trump supporters now.

And, yes, you can argue that Hillary is far more of a snake-oil salesman than Trump actually is. The only real difference between her and Trump is how much she's accomplished in the political realm. Like I said, her long history and career paints a huge picture as to what she's capable of doing. In the political realm, Trump simply does not have that sort reputation that Hillary does.

Keep in mind that I'm strictly looking at current events right now. If Hillary ever decides to take a page from Trump's book and start inciting violence and aggression towards Conservative voters, then I'll be the first to completely rail against her. But I'm not so sure that will ever happen, because Hillary does not have the personality or audacity of Trump to ever do such a thing. Such a stunt would backfire on her so hard that she'll end up giving Trump far more sympathy and support than possible.

This election is really polarizing to me. Looking at all the other previous elections, especially 2008 and 2012, it amazes me just how far things can change in less than a decade or so. I don't even recall seeing any other presidential candidate literally rallying their supporters to get violent against any opposition to them. To me, Donald Trump is the literal wild card in this election. He has no real reason or business to run for president. He does not align with either liberal or conservative values. His vague positions and stances on things leaves a lot to be desired.

And yet his constant trolling and attention-seeking among his supporters and haters is giving him more popularity than ever before. We have actually arrived to a point where the American populace has become far more polarized than elections past. Pitting Americans against each other is obviously not a new thing, but this election really seems to be bringing out the worst of us. I honestly believe that things won't ever be the same again after this election is over.
 

Charmonium

Diamond Member
May 15, 2015
9,583
2,946
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This election is really polarizing to me. Looking at all the other previous elections, especially 2008 and 2012, it amazes me just how far things can change in less than a decade or so. I don't even recall seeing any other presidential candidate literally rallying their supporters to get violent against any opposition to them. To me, Donald Trump is the literal wild card in this election. He has no real reason or business to run for president. He does not align with either liberal or conservative values. His vague positions and stances on things leaves a lot to be desired.
This has been an odd election from the start. I don't think we've ever had such a field of grossly unqualified people on the Rep. side. In the past, the Reps have always had a candidate I could at least consider voting for. Well, maybe not Reagan but as a general rule and I think he ran against bob Dole whom I could actually have supported.

But this year has just been abysmal. i think trump saw that and realized that the clown car had nothing on him and that he could put the rest of those twits to shame, which he's done. You have to give him that much at least. It's not saying much, but even so.

I don't think I paid much attention to 08 and 12 elections but it's hard to believe that there wasn't some racist sentiment expressed even back then, especially given how much we've seen during Obama's tenure.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
Congrats to the OP for claiming that people who don't think like him are evil and/or stupid. Pretty sure that's a novel statement in politics.
 

DrPizza

Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Mar 5, 2001
49,606
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www.slatebrookfarm.com
Well, I never said that the general public is entirely full of Trump supporters now.

And, yes, you can argue that Hillary is far more of a snake-oil salesman than Trump actually is. The only real difference between her and Trump is how much she's accomplished in the political realm. Like I said, her long history and career paints a huge picture as to what she's capable of doing. In the political realm, Trump simply does not have that sort reputation that Hillary does.

So, what you're admitting is that Hillary actually has a voting record that we can base support or lack of support on. How exactly then is she a snake-oil salesman?
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
So, what you're admitting is that Hillary actually has a voting record that we can base support or lack of support on. How exactly then is she a snake-oil salesman?

The Donald has a voting record, too. He's voted FYGM more times than anybody can count.

Obviously the Savior! of working Americans.
 

Triloby

Senior member
Mar 18, 2016
587
275
136
So, what you're admitting is that Hillary actually has a voting record that we can base support or lack of support on. How exactly then is she a snake-oil salesman?

I said that you COULD argue that Hillary can be a bigger snake-oil salesman than Trump is. You COULD argue that position based on her methods, accomplishments, and attitude as a Senator. You COULD use the argument that she is more corrupt than Trump, and that she's also incompetent in matters of national security (aka those unsecured emails).

Whether or not that argument holds water is a different matter altogether. Personally, I don't buy into the argument of her being a snake-oil salesman because she has proven that she can keep certain promises and successfully get certain legislation passed through Congress. Granted, not all Americans will vibe well with her accomplishments, but even then it doesn't really fit the definition of her being a snake-oil salesman.

As for Trump? He is most definitely a snake-oil salesman, and there is plenty of evidence to prove that he is so. I don't have to explain why since he's constantly pointing it out by attention-whoring himself 24/7.
 

Grooveriding

Diamond Member
Dec 25, 2008
9,108
1,260
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The whole Trump farce is like a Christmas present you can't wait to see opened. Not sure what is going to be more entertaining; his narcissistic meltdown when he loses and the theories he puts forward as to why he lost, or the meltdown of his followers when they realize their ilk are an ever shrinking minority.

The meltdowns will be epic!
 

flexy

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2001
8,464
155
106
Congrats to the OP for claiming that people who don't think like him are evil and/or stupid.

So you're saying that Trump and most Trump supporters are Nobel prize laureates, 'this what you sayin'?
 
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