AGP replacement

[CidHighwind]

I'm happy to stick with my old rig for a few years yet; problem being my 9800XT is dying. PCI-e came out little under a month after I finished the rig, so I got screwed when everything seemingly jumped on it. Anyway, still having an AGP8x, what is the best card I can buy before the performance bottlenecks too much to justify the extra cost? I prefer Radeon, but if thats gonna hurt my choices, then I would gladly go to Nvidia.
I havent been keeping up with the trends in the industry for over 3 years, so I dont reeally know whats out there. I ddint really need to, as my rig would run pretty much any game I got for it, with nice FPS, and looking pretty. Until Bioshock. I dont have Pixel Shader 3.0, which I knew nothing about.

Anyway, heres my system:
EPOX 8kDA3J Nvidia board
AMD64 socket 754 3700+ (recently upgraded)
1x 2G DDR
9800XT (Barely able to run _anything_ at this point)
(EDIT) forgot to mention a 500W PSU

 

[TC91]

i would recommend a 7600gt agp or a x1950pro/xt depending on prices. the 7600gt agp should go for around 100bucks, and it is a little faster than the 6800ultra, which would be a nice upgrade over your 9800xt but it may be a tad too slow for newer games, depending on what graphics settings you are accustomed to using. the x1950pro/xt are even faster but they might be a bit more expensive. if you can wait however, i believe amd/ati willl release their hd3850 and hd3870 series on agp, which are vastly faster than the previously mentioned 7600gt, and x1950pro/xt.

 

[ManWithNoName]

Originally posted by: CidHighwind
I'm happy to stick with my old rig for a few years yet; problem being my 9800XT is dying. PCI-e came out little under a month after I finished the rig, so I got screwed when everything seemingly jumped on it. Anyway, still having an AGP8x, what is the best card I can buy before the performance bottlenecks too much to justify the extra cost? I prefer Radeon, but if thats gonna hurt my choices, then I would gladly go to Nvidia.
I havent been keeping up with the trends in the industry for over 3 years, so I dont reeally know whats out there. I ddint really need to, as my rig would run pretty much any game I got for it, with nice FPS, and looking pretty. Until Bioshock. I dont have Pixel Shader 3.0, which I knew nothing about.

Anyway, heres my system:
EPOX 8kDA3J Nvidia board
AMD64 socket 754 3700+ (recently upgraded)
1x 2G DDR
9800XT (Barely able to run _anything_ at this point)
(EDIT) forgot to mention a 500W PSU

What's the make and model of your power supply as wattage? Build quality and amperage on the +12v rail matters a lot. My last AGP rig as of 4-5 months ago was a socket 754 with a 3700+ AMD64 just like you. I went through almost every card imaginable trying to find the best last year and used most of the ones listed below. A lot hinges on what power supply you have ad whether you're willing to upgrade if required. If you're in the market for high-end AGP these are your choices .....

X1950 Pro 512MB:
You have several choices of manufacturers and this is the card you should get if you're power supply can handle it. Best Bang for the buck out of all the top AGP cards in my opinion.

Gecube X1950XT 512MB:
Only Gecube manufacturers this card which is the fastest AGP card there is. Even higher power requirements than the X1950 Pro. Three molex connections including 1 for TEC cooler or 1 PCI-E connector and 1 molex. The card is quite large because of dual-fan cooler which cools well, but exhausts air into the case. No ramsinks on the GDDR3 memory either due to cooler design.

X1950GT 256MB:
Basically a X1950 Pro with lower clocks. I believe Sapphire makes the only AGP part. Same power requirements as the Pro and you have a good shot at overclocking to Pro speeds. Card can be found pretty cheaply.

XFX 7950GT 512MB: (XFX also makes a 7900GS AGP which is not as fast)
XFX is the only manufacturer. Very good card. Lifetime Warranty sevrice for US customers. Low Power Supply Requirements - 22a +12v rail and 400w. Performance between X1950 Pro and X1950XT. More exoensive than the Pro and last time I looked it was hard to find. This was my last AGP card and you likely wouldn't need to upgrade your supply to use it.

2600XT/Pro: (not a high-end AGP part at all / but it does have DX10)
Newest AGP cards and DX10. Not the best gaming cards. Power requirements are low.

See VGA Charts for a quick comparison. Chart has a few inconsistencies, but overall it's fairly accurate....

http://www23.tomshardware.com/...4&model2=725&chart=318

Edit:
If your looking for less of a card then the ones I listed, the 7600GT, TC91 recommended would carry the low end. On the ATI side I guess I would give the nod to the X1650XT/Pro.

 

[secretanchitman]

7600GT/x1950pro/x1950gt/7950GT. they are all in agp btw.

 

[CidHighwind]

Cool, thanks! As for my power supply, its an APEVIA 520W with dual 12V rails. I balanced the load as best I could when hooking it up, so it should have amps to spare. It was vaulted as one of the best PSUs at the time I bought it (remember a few years ago when 500W was a LOT more than anyone needed, back before we started hooking vaccum cleaners to our Graphics ports?). However, it seems that have a short lifespan of ~2 years, after reading through the reviews. SO its been about that long, and it may be attributing to my problems.

 

[Ares202]

also i f your planning to go for the x1950 pro card go for the gt The card will overclock to Pro speeds as its exacly the same card, same memory, same core same cooler sapphire has just underclocked it

I had the PCI-E version a few months ago and it was a nice card ran crysis on meduim 1440x900 with an amd 3800+ and 2gb of ram, however its large bigger than my new 8800gt

 

[MegaVovaN]

Don't get 6800GT, I had one (actually several but its another story), and 7600GT > 6800GT
also, 7600GT > 6800GT > 7600GS

 

[ManWithNoName]

Originally posted by: CidHighwind
Cool, thanks! As for my power supply, its an APEVIA 520W with dual 12V rails. I balanced the load as best I could when hooking it up, so it should have amps to spare. It was vaulted as one of the best PSUs at the time I bought it (remember a few years ago when 500W was a LOT more than anyone needed, back before we started hooking vaccum cleaners to our Graphics ports?). However, it seems that have a short lifespan of ~2 years, after reading through the reviews. SO its been about that long, and it may be attributing to my problems.

If it's the Apevia AS520W then you have 25A on the combined +12v rails. This may or may not cut it for use with the X1950 Series of cards, especially if you think there is a problem with your unit. If you need any power supply suggestions let me know. Buy.com for example has a great 450w Corsair for only $61 and it's a top-notch unit with a 33a +12v rail. This would work out well for almost any single card config. If you're looking for even more power you can take with you to your next PC let us know.

Corsair VX 450w - +12v @ 33a
http://www.buy.com/prod/corsai...loc/101/205466485.html

Corsair VX 550w - +12v @ 41a
http://www.buy.com/prod/corsai...loc/101/205852646.html

 

[TC91]

i would like to add that if you can wait for the 3850/3870 on agp, may be a another 2 months or so, they are much faster than the current agp cards, and also use much less power, reducing the overall cost as you would not need a new power supply. the 3850 by itself will destroy any 7950gt, x1950pro or x1950xt.
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3151&p=9
shown there, the 3850 will beat the 7950gt in every case, and the x1950xtx, which is a little faster than the x1950xt, in pretty much all cases.

 

[ManWithNoName]

Originally posted by: TC91
i would like to add that if you can wait for the 3850/3870 on agp, may be a another 2 months or so, they are much faster than the current agp cards, and also use much less power, reducing the overall cost as you would not need a new power supply. the 3850 by itself will destroy any 7950gt, x1950pro or x1950xt.
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3151&p=9
shown there, the 3850 will beat the 7950gt in every case, and the x1950xtx, which is a little faster than the x1950xt, in pretty much all cases.

how's it going and Merry Christmas TC91. Where did you see that the 3800 series will be released on AGP? I'd like to know as the question of what AGP card should I get comes up frequently and I'd like to be able to mention the 3800 series as an option myself, but I won't do so wthout definitive proof it's going to happen. This just also just came on another forum, so if you have a link to it, I'd appreciate it so I can pass it along. Thanks.

 

[TC91]

hey, merry Christmas to everyone here and a happy new year. i got some links for you, ManWithNoName. I havent found a definate press release of the agp cards, but there are tons of stuff on other forums regarding the 3k series on agp.

http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?p=2542687

http://xtreview.com/addcomment...-version--HD-3850.html

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...AR_FORUMVIEWTMP=Linear

http://xtreview.com/addcomment...-3870-and-HD-3850.html
at the end of the article, it states the 3k series theoretically supports the rialto agp bridge.

http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/...capture-100-agp-market
the infamous inquirer, some of you guys might not like it, but i always have found the inq interesting to read.

not sure if the next 2 links are relevant, but they do suggest something.

http://www.google.ca/search?hl...&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&hs=CDt&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=radeon+hd+3870+agp&spell=1
the first link, from diamond mm, has an agp in it, may have been an accidental leak, but they appear to have taken it off while google's cache apparently shows it still there. "ATI Radeon? HD 3870 PCIE 512MB GDDR4|Dual DVI|VIVO|AGP"

http://www.google.ca/search?hl...+agp&btnG=Search&meta=
same as above, but for the 3850, "ATI Radeon? HD 3850 PCIE 256MB GDDR3|Dual DVI|VIVO|AGP"

 

[ManWithNoName]

Thanks TC. I was wondering if this was going to happen as the power requirements for the 3800 series are so low compared the 2900 series. Lots of speculation right now, hopefully it comes to pass for those who cannot convert to PCI-E for various reasons. I just made the jump myself 4-5 months ago.

 

[CidHighwind]

So, basically, I should have no problem witht he latest cards? Wouldnt they be bogged down a bit by the AGP? Or is it just not that major a factor?
According to NewEgg's power calculator, with a 1950, I should be pushing 500W maximum. However, I'm sure they overshoot their numbers as a CYA policy, not to mention some of my parts should have lower power consumption than the closest match they have listed. But throw on a myriad of fans, extra drives, USB devices, and a DVD-r, I might as well go with a 600W. Because, well, if its only loaded 75%, then it shouldnt wear out, should it? I will most certainly put a new PSU on before a new card.
See, i'm having a lot of errors lately, and I'm afraid its the snowball effect meets murphy's law.
Graphics Textures suddenly dissapearing after restarting a game, artifacts, etc. ESPECIALLY when running fullscreen. Most likely my aging card I pushed a bit too far. I have one of the Sapphire 9800pros with an XT core that _could_ be flashed to be an XT. Thats what I did. Works fine, but I'm sure it has had its long term effects.
General windows errors, memory faults, programs crashing OFTEN. Most likely one of two things-- or a combination of both. I havent formatted in 3 years, but I tried to keep my drives cleaned up. Knowing the can of worms windows is-- I'm about due for one. ALso, I have a defective CPU. When I changed the heatsink to a beefier one, one of the memory transfer pins was left in the ZIF slot. I didnt force it, or do anything the slightest bit mean to it, it had just detached itself. Ran for a year and a half. Surely that has some type of negative effect!
ANd now I find out my PSU is dying after 1-2 years for most users. Its been 2.5 of hard use. Again, surely that isnt good either.

So between a new CPU, PSU, and video card, with a disk format thrown in for good measure, I ought ot have a problem-free, fresher, faster rig I can get another 2 or so years out of. Not looking to wait for the greatest damn thing on the market, as, if I could bump the settings up and get soem FPS higher than 20 on WoW, TF2 and Oblivion, plus actually take Bioshock out of the box, I'm a very happy boy. Means a LOT more of the upcoming games will be available to me, or at least better. Crysis be damned. I'll play it in 3 years when technology available to ME catches up.

update:
Here's what im looking at. Seems good to me. Question though, is the 512MB upgrade over the 256MB worth it, or is it merely a selling point?
http://accessories.us.dell.com...47&lid=585570#Overview

 

[ManWithNoName]

Originally posted by: CidHighwind
So, basically, I should have no problem witht he latest cards? Wouldnt they be bogged down a bit by the AGP? Or is it just not that major a factor?
According to NewEgg's power calculator, with a 1950, I should be pushing 500W maximum. However, I'm sure they overshoot their numbers as a CYA policy, not to mention some of my parts should have lower power consumption than the closest match they have listed. But throw on a myriad of fans, extra drives, USB devices, and a DVD-r, I might as well go with a 600W.

If your power supply is the one I mentioned above with 25a on the +12v rail, you should have enough power for the 7950GT or the 2600 series (which is not a card I would recommend for gaming). If you go with a x1950 series, your power supply may very well not be able to handle it. Only way to know for sure is to try it. I won't comment on the 3800 series in AGP as there is nothing yet written in stone as to when we will see this card.

Again as far as power supplies go, it's not just the wattage. The Corsair 450w PSU I linked you to is actually a better power supply than the 500w one you currently have because it has +12V rail @ 33a. So you need to look at the +12v rail rating of whatever power supply you choose and I would recommend at least 30a if not more on the +12v rail. In shopping around for a new power supply you should base you decision on the amperage of +12v rail, build quality, and last the wattage.

 

[CidHighwind]

Did you forget the rest of your post, or did I say somethign stupid?

 

[ManWithNoName]

Originally posted by: CidHighwind
Did you forget the rest of your post, or did I say somethign stupid?

Hit reply button accidenatlly. Finished Post.

 

[CidHighwind]

cool, I figured as much. Yeah, I'll take your advice on the Amps to heart. Perhaps the new guide on PSUs is a good place to start. I'm going with a 1950, and this PSU I have-- its days are certainly numbered. Theres a LOT of reviews about this very one, saying they havent lasted as long as mine has. Certainly that isnt good.

 

[ManWithNoName]

Originally posted by: CidHighwind
cool, I figured as much. Yeah, I'll take your advice on the Amps to heart. Perhaps the new guide on PSUs is a good place to start. I'm going with a 1950, and this PSU I have-- its days are certainly numbered. Theres a LOT of reviews about this very one, saying they havent lasted as long as mine has. Certainly that isnt good.

Good choice. If you go with a Pro I had three of them. First I had a Visiontek 256MB card. Decent card but the slowest of the 3 Pro's I tried. They went with a slightly different PCB design than the other manufacturers including an alternate VRM (voltage regulator module) design, which may have made them less prone to overheating. Unfortunately Visiontek also left a readable temp diode off the card so no fan speed adjustments, fan ran at 100% 24/7 and no temperature monitoring. Gecube also used the same PCB design as the Visiontek card.

I also tried a Sapphire 512MB Pro which was a trouble free card for me, and could also overclock it some with just the stock cooler.

Pushed my luck a little, and on the third Pro I tried I struck out big-time. My last Pro was a HIS ICEQ3 Turbo 512MB Pro which was a very bad experience because of design flaws with the Revision 1 cards. Had to RMA two of them for the same problem before giving up. They later released a Revision 2 card which fixed the previous issues with the Revision 1 cards. Just be careful of the Rev.1 cards though which still may be floating around in circulation should you go for a HIS.

Favorite of the bunch without a doubt was my Sapphire Pro. Sapphire also makes the low cost lower clocked X1950GT as well. Only bad thing about Sapphire I can think of is there RMA process. They charge a handling fee of something like $15 to return a card to them.

 

[CidHighwind]

The Sapphires are sold out to the point of having to pay nearly 100$ extra to *maybe* get one. Considering they are apparently discontinued (?) as listed by some sites. I'm looking at nearly the same thing by DIAMOND. Seems to be the same card to a T, although I can never find a picture of the card, only the box. Anyone have any luck with this company/card, or know where to find a sapphire?

EDIT-- Actually-- just nevermind about the diamond stuff. NOBODY has ANY variety of the 512MB x1950 agp8x in stock. I guess I'll just have to wait it out. Surely they arent totally discontinued.

 

[Skunkwourk]

http://www.compusa.com/product...ll&product_code=342815

 

[Rottie]

Diamond Viper X1950 ro 512MB and Sapphire card are the same. It is a good card. I have no problem with card...It is only 4 months old card for me