agp vs. pci-e for video editing: big difference?

[ananymous]

Hello all,
The power supply I got a few years back doesn't have connection for pci-e cards. I want to get a new card solely for video editing. Can I get similar results with a decent (not high end) agp card compared to a decent pci-x card, or should I go ahead and upgrade my power supply too? I've been told that it's not a good idea to use an adapter to enable pci-e cards with a power supply.
I expect I would of course get better results from a pci-e (and correct power supply) vs. agp card, but how *much* of a difference are we talking? If I got a pci-e card it would not be the fastest thing out there, I've found 500mb vid cards for less than $100 and was going to go with one of them.

One last thing, how important is 128bit vs. higher bitrate?

thanks VERY much in advance,
Phil

 

[themisfit610]

pci-x != pci-e. You're thinking pci-e (express).

It's perfectly fine to use a molex -> pcie power adapter. I did for nearly two years with my 7800gt. As long as your PSU has enough 12V power, it will work fine, it's just a different form factor connection. 12V = 12V, no difference there.

Keep these things in mind - the only significant difference between all modern video cards is their prowess in OpenGL and Direct3d. These are not areas where video editing is particularly intensive. Some aspects can be, but 99% of all video editors would be just fine with something very basic like a Radeon 2400 / GeForce 8500.

The most important thing is that you have the connections you need for your monitors. If you want to run two 30" LCDs, you will need two dual link DVI connectors. This is a feature found only on more high end cards. Most people won't have this requrement, so something basic should suffice just fine.

how important is 128bit vs. higher bitrate

By bitrate I assume you mean memory clock. For video editing, it does not matter. For gaming, it all depends.

Here are two "ideal" candidates from my perspective. They are both passively cooled, and both have two DVI ports, at least one of each should be dual link.
8600gt:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814127293

2600pro:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814125074

They're both around $100, which is a bit of a premium - but well worth it for a dual DVI silent video card with very competent video acceleration. They both have hardware decoding of H.264 in case you watch HD-DVD or BluRay on the computer. This feature may be used in future video editing applications, who knows. They are also both DX10 cards, and fully Vista ready.

~MiSfit

 

[MarcVenice]

wait, since when did video-editing applications make use of the GPU ? Video-editing is still pretty much CPU dependant if I'm not mistaken ...

 

[themisfit610]

That's exactly what I'm saying.

They will use some hardware acceleration to draw the video, but it's not very much. I'm merely suggesting the OP get something silent, with two DVI outputs. There are two good examples.

Some filters are GPU accelerated, but not much.

~MiSfit

 

[ananymous]

Originally posted by: themisfit610
pci-x != pci-e. You're thinking pci-e (express).

It's perfectly fine to use a molex -> pcie power adapter. I did for nearly two years with my 7800gt. As long as your PSU has enough 12V power, it will work fine, it's just a different form factor connection. 12V = 12V, no difference there.

Hi MiSfit,
Thank you so much for your prompt and courteous reply. It's tough trying to sift through all the info on vid cards on the net, especially when most of it is directed towards gaming. Yes I meant pci-e.

First off, re: my psu:
cooler master rs-430PMSR/P
http://www.newegg.com/product/...p?item=N82E16817171007
Like I said, no pci-e connection, so I called cooler master support earlier today and guy said he doesn't recommend adapter for pci-e card...maybe he thought I might be connecting high end vid card? I have heard people complain about the 12v rail on this ps, but again, I don't know under what circumstances.

I thought the cooler master psu was "decent", but maybe the tech didn't like the 12v rail either?
So I'm back to getting the molex adapter you described (if my ps is ok on the 12 rail), or getting a new psu plus a pci-e16x card (I assume if I get a pci-e, I might as well go for pci-e16x, unless there will be no measureable difference there and I can save a lot by getting pci-e instead).

Originally posted by: themisfit610
Keep these things in mind - the only significant difference between all modern video cards is their prowess in OpenGL and Direct3d. These are not areas where video editing is particularly intensive. Some aspects can be, but 99% of all video editors would be just fine with something very basic like a Radeon 2400 / GeForce 8500.

thank you, that is great to know! I guess again it comes back to whether or not I can trust my psu. There is an antec 500w for about $35 after rebates, would it make things a lot easier by picking it up or waste of money for my system?

Originally posted by: themisfit610The most important thing is that you have the connections you need for your monitors. If you want to run two 30" LCDs, you will need two dual link DVI connectors. This is a feature found only on more high end cards. Most people won't have this requrement, so something basic should suffice just fine.

Re: monitors, I have only one. It's a pos 17" thing, but the editing is not for professional use. I do want to get professional results, but I won't be using 2 monitors in the forseeable future.

re: your suggested cards, what do you think now?

Sorry I wasn't more clear about my needs and hardware information, here are system specs in case it matters:
mobo = asus a8n-vm csm (I'd completely forgotten it doesn't even have an agp slot, only a pci-e and pci-e 16x slot)
psu = cooler master rs-430PMSR/P
internal raid 0 on pair of sata2 drives (running XP on this)
external 1394(a) connected sata2 drive (for video files)
1 gig of dual channel pc3200 (400mhz) ram
processor is athlon 64 3200 (venice)
1394a pci card with TI chipset

having seen that, should I put some vid card money towards system ram?

If you still think the molex adapter is an option, can you tell me where to get a quality one (newegg)?
Again, I *really* appreciate all your help and feedback.

 

[betasub]

OP: Please edit title to show that this thread is about AGP vs PCI-e.

Oh, and BTW it's "Athlon" (I though we'd left this problem several years back)

 

[fire400]

Originally posted by: MarcVenice
wait, since when did video-editing applications make use of the GPU ? Video-editing is still pretty much CPU dependant if I'm not mistaken ...

they do, some me so than others. Intel GPU's will have your monitor to appear as if it was the monitor tearin'
technology like 10-bit coloring from video cards, matrix parhelia? that's GPU technology pushin' out
CPU determines a lot, but professionals look for the workstation graphics to get the best visual performance/accuracy even if the GPU isn't as heavy.
varies, but you could still video edit on an GF8800GTX and it could be the same, it's preference.

 

[ananymous]

Originally posted by: betasub
OP: Please edit title to show that this thread is about AGP vs PCI-e.

Oh, and BTW it's "Athlon" (I though we'd left this problem several years back)

edited, sins against AMD atoned for, etc... much thanks

still looking for (non-grammatical) advice if anyone has any based on my post before this one

 

[themisfit610]

It's a non issue. Any low powered video card that fits your requirements wouldn't even require the PCIe power connector - since they can draw all required power straight off the PCIe bus.

Get a cheap video card, and get more RAM. DDR1 is really expensive right now (relative to DDR2), but it's probably worth it for you to get at least 2 GB (if you're doing Premiere especially). If you can stomach it, I would leverage the great prices out there right now, and pick up a cheap p35 chipset board, a cheap core 2 duo, and 2-4 gigs of RAM. It would be a SIGNIFICANT improvment for not much money $300 - 400 tops.

If you can't afford that, just get a video card and RAM for now.

~MiSfit

 

[ananymous]

Originally posted by: themisfit610
It's a non issue. Any low powered video card that fits your requirements wouldn't even require the PCIe power connector - since they can draw all required power straight off the PCIe bus.

Get a cheap video card, and get more RAM. DDR1 is really expensive right now (relative to DDR2), but it's probably worth it for you to get at least 2 GB (if you're doing Premiere especially). If you can stomach it, I would leverage the great prices out there right now, and pick up a cheap p35 chipset board, a cheap core 2 duo, and 2-4 gigs of RAM. It would be a SIGNIFICANT improvment for not much money $300 - 400 tops.

If you can't afford that, just get a video card and RAM for now.

~MiSfit

Thanks for your help MiSfit. Unlike some people in other forums I won't mention, you don't sound like you're selling hardware.
I'll ltake a look at intel mobo's but the amd's I looked at were too expensive for the newer chipsets. If I invested $300 I would probably lean towards getting a dual core athlonx2 4200 for the current mobo +ram +video card, and hope the psu is OK on that all-important 12v rail.

 

[Blain]

OT:

A friend of mine edits with Premiere Pro 2.0. His current PC is almost maxed out...
P4 3.4 Prescott, 2GB DDR, GF4 Ti4600 128MB, Windows XP Pro.

He's always said more graphic card memory would help (rendering or previewing, I don't know).
Since I've got a dose of Christmas spirit and some spare cash, I ordered him an AGP 7300GT 512MB card for about $65 after rebate.

Will he see much of a change in his editing?


I've told him he needs to go "dual core". But he doesn't have the $$$ for a total rebuild.
I figured the 7300GT would give his rig a little bump on the cheap.

 

[Rottie]

I had a X850 Pro with 256MB card and 1GB memory It is bit slow not slower and I bought X1950 Pro with 512MB and 2GB I see a lot improvement. I can't say which Premiere Pro is benefited from more memory or video card with large memory.

 

[the chillmaster]

It seems like most of the problems have been resolved here. If you have a PCI-e slot, you gotta get a pci-e card. and I think it's a darned waste of money to buy a card that's several years old............

In general, you guys do have the requirements for video editing figured out: CPU, then RAM, then Video card

That being said - let me emphasize, that that "little boost in video rendering performance" you (or someone up there) spoke of - it's pretty significant at times. and if you're waiting on a slow gfx card to render a scene, over, and over, and over, and over again (like we v. editors do, watching scenes 100x over before coming to a final solution - having a quick rendering card can really make life a lot easier on your brain.

Blain, especially with you - that guy's system is waaaaay overpowered when you consider the gfx card. His video-editing performance would make huge leaps in speed, quality, performance, reliability, etc....

just get a darn nice card!!!!!!! I'm not saying make it your priority but guys, c'mon - OF COURSE IT'S IMPORTANT to have a strong video card solution to EDIT VIDEO

I hate to call someone a newb already but I'm pretty sure you guys asking the questions, are the ones who haven't ever really spent a LONG LONG time behind a video editing machine. I'll tell you what - I don't want to spend more than a dozen hours (that would be a tiny project, btw) staring at a screen and trying to manipulate video with a shoddy gfx solution. i'd get impatient, really, really quick.

 

[mruffin75]

Originally posted by: the chillmaster
Blain, especially with you - that guy's system is waaaaay overpowered when you consider the gfx card. His video-editing performance would make huge leaps in speed, quality, performance, reliability, etc....

just get a darn nice card!!!!!!! I'm not saying make it your priority but guys, c'mon - OF COURSE IT'S IMPORTANT to have a strong video card solution to EDIT VIDEO

The only real difference that a video card will make when editing video, is video overlays. Virtually no GPU functions are used. The GF4 Ti4600 isn't a bad card.. yes it is old by today's standard, but unless he's running very high resolutions, he probably won't see much of a difference in speed....or reliability or whatever...

I hate to call someone a newb already

Yeah I'd be careful if I were you..

but I'm pretty sure you guys asking the questions, are the ones who haven't ever really spent a LONG LONG time behind a video editing machine.

I've spent some time behind one....

I'll tell you what - I don't want to spend more than a dozen hours (that would be a tiny project, btw) staring at a screen and trying to manipulate video with a shoddy gfx solution. i'd get impatient, really, really quick.

I'd nearly say a small project would be a dozen days..a dozen hours would be a wedding video

Now...what kind of video card would be good for video editing? My biggest *want* would be that it supported video overlays very well.. I usually have the video editing screen on one display, and have a full screen video output on the other, to make sure what I'm editing is correct..

 

[soccerballtux]

Video editting apps mostly use Ram and your processor.....
There's an ECS mobo+proc deal; it's a quad core Phenom, for $220 I think at fry's/outpost.com. I'd recommend that. Ignore what people say about ECS, their boards work fine most of the time. A quad Phenom would be better than a Core2Duo.