Originally posted by: munky
Regardless that pci-e has no speed benefits over agp, the fact remains that the video card makers simply refuse to release high end cards for agp. Those with a A64 and a agp 6800u or x850xt are just gonna have to accept that, and live with your current setup for a little longer. Lucky for you, this new generation of cards (x1800/g70) did not offer a 2x or more performance increase over previous cards, so if your 6800u or xtpe is hitting the ground face first in FEAR or COD2, chances are there's just as many people who's 7800gt is biting it pretty hard too - my friend with a 7800gt also had to run COD2 at 10x7 to get rid of the slowdowns.
A ringing endorsement to layout money, just to turn the features down anyways.
For someone who's still using a 9800p or equivalent, I'd say if you can afford to "upgrade" to a 7800gs agp for ~$250, then you can certainly afford to switch to pci-e, and you should. Nv and Ati have chosen not to release agp high end cards, why should someone settle for a crippled agp 7-series and be happy because they have a shiny new card, while for a similar price you could get a much better card on pci-e? If Nv doesnt give a rat's a$$ for agp users, why should agp users give a rat's a$$ about some agp 7800 that's crippled with 16 primitive pipes and would hit the dirt just as hard as an x850xt in FEAR or even worse? Like I said before, they just threw it out there like a bone to the dogs, and if you were smart enough not to upgrade from a gf2 ultra to a gf4 mx, then you'd probably be smart enough not to upgrade from a xt pe to a 16-pipe 7800.
So when is enough, enough? If I have a $250 budget, and I want the best bang for the buck, what compelling reason would I have to spend additonal money to buy a PCIE board and get a lesser PCIE card? When people have to find the best value for their price range, sometimes (I know for some it may come as a shock) Dell 2405FPW's and SLI 512 GTX's are somehow not on the list of options. Why was the 6600gt such a popular card? It delivered good performance, for a very reasonable price. Certainly while it's not as exciting as SLI GTX's or 1800XT's, the main money makers for card companies will be the low and mid range options.
Unless you have a 6800(possibly 6600) or less, it's not much of an improvement. Though with TSAA MSAA options, you are looking at some nice IQ features, which IMO is always a good thing as long as the performance is still there.
Edit:
Originally posted by: deadseasquirrel
Originally posted by: TGS
I just seriously doubt I'm *missing* something in my games running at 1280x1024 4xAA 8xAF.
But you are limited to that resolution since you're on an LCD. There are many who are using CRTs and have the ability to increase the resolution well beyond that.
While the fastest AGP cards out there right now can handle most any game at 1280x1024 with 4xAA and 16xAF, COD2 and FEAR have shown that it might not be possible to do that anymore with next gen games (and keep that res with those settings).
If faster AGP cards do not arrive, those AGP users with 19" LCDs (and larger) will be forced to eliminate or lower AA/AF settings in order to have next gen games become playable (depending on one's opinion of "playable"). It's hard to tell from just this announcement, but it doesn't like like this card will provide a substantial increase in performance that will ensure the LCD user playable frame rates at their native resolution with AA/AF for next generation games. But the announcement is giving those users hope that other, and more powerful, cards will follow suit.
[Also, most "enthusiasts" using the high end setups typically use high end displays. Most popular seems to be the 2405, so it's not like LCDs are holding back high res gaming.]
I understand, but the opinions of some are coming off sounding as if those not playing at 8xAA+ 16XAF+ are looking at some atari graphics. Prior to this LCD, running a 9700pro on a CRT it was very nice to be able to change resolutions. Though for me I wanted to be able to run all my games in 10x7(or higher) at 4xAA and 8xAF. The 9700pro couldn't deliver, so I bought a 6800gt. You can use scaling and get the black bars if you wanted to keep a certain resolution, but if the games demand a better piece of equipment I'll have to fork out for what I deam "acceptable IQ". IQ and playability are *very* subjective, and when people toss out opinions as fact, it doesn't hold much weight with me. While the numbers look tempting for moving to SLI/Crossfire I don't like the price to performance ratio on the package. If a game comes that demands a card upgrade, and it's within my price point I'll jump on it.