AGPers.. rejoice!!

[Topweasel]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: Topweasel

Originally posted by: RussianSensation

Originally posted by: Matt2

Besides, not creating any AGP products is the ONLY way for PCI-E to overtake AGP. If there were AGP equivalents to the PCI-E cards would you AGP users EVER make the move? Probably not.

Yes, but I think you are missing the point. There was nothing wrong with AGP slot to begin with (perhaps you couldn't do SLI with 2x 8X AGP slots?). All other things aside, any videocard on AGP slot and PCIe will give equal performance if it is the same videocard. Thus, does switching to PCIe warrant spending $100 on a new motherboard? (and for some users a new cpu that is barely faster than their older system?). From return on investment, switching to PCIe never made sense. However, like you mentioned, the industry is heading there so we have to follow since there is no choice on the high-end for AGP users. I just think it's a matter of principle -- why spend more for no difference in performance just because everyone else is willing to? At least with SATA, the switching costs were low and the cables less bulky.

Yet, for the consumer switching to PCIe (besides SLI) provides 0 tangible benefit all things being equal in a test system. For the manufacturer it solves a lot of problems - produce and budget for 1 standard only and relieve any worries associated with estimating demand for 2 standards; and alleviate issues with power mgmt since AGP slot provides what? 48W and PCIe 75W or something along those lines? Thus the circuitry and 2 power headers on the card would have increased costs for Nvidia and ATI perhaps. Since both can sell motherboards, and resolve the videocard issues, migration to PCIe was the next logical step from the supply side.

And the swith to PCIe was made for 3 reasons. A.) the Whole 8x is garbage. AGP was developed as a shorterm solution to the need to use a faster connection to PCI. Then Intel in all of its glory found shortcut after short cut (which they brought to us one at a time) to improve the Theoretical bandwidth, in actuallity they brobably are unable to transfer something around the numbers of the AGP 4x spec. AGP 8x was more for changing the power then anything else. B.) Power, This doesn't matter to us 7800GTX users or 6800 or X800 users. This matters to 6600, X600, X1600, 6200, X300, and X1300 users. Buy supplying more power to he slots they don't have to grab power from an under powered rail on the that being used by you hard drives and optical drives. This lowers Costs for everyone. C.) Flexibility, remember PCIe is here to replace AGP, PCI, and PCIX. Never will we see again the kind of diversions in mobo designs as we are going to see once mobos start having 50+ lanes and everyone starts making PCIe cards for everything. Selling any of the older slots is just going to slow down its adoption rate by card manufacturers which will lower the amount of lanes manufacturers put on their boards. D.) Legacy is so 90s, we need to stop slowing down progress just for the sake of legacy support for products that only have a years more life in them anyways.

I'm going to take a stab here :

You either have enough money to buy all the parts needed for a PCIe system or you already own one.

Next stab: Can I borrow some money?

Nah... I do Have a PCIe system, but that besides the point. Every type of system in the last 2 years (outside the AXP) has a PCIe motherboard available for it. Most have them for 50-100 while not the cheapest thing in the world should be affordable to almost everyone. If you happen to be one of the sorry people who owns a AXP, I feel for you but you will probably be served better by a CPU upgrade then going from a 6800GT(or GS) to a 7800 or X1800(1900).

 

[beggerking]

YES.. One more AGP card then I'll be ready to upgrade to PCI-E.

My computer is still < 1 yr old...too early to change out mb..

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: beggerking
YES.. One more AGP card then I'll be ready to upgrade to PCI-E.

My computer is still < 1 yr old...too early to change out mb..

By then they will have something "better". I mean why have to have 2 cards to get max preformance??

 

[beggerking]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: beggerking
YES.. One more AGP card then I'll be ready to upgrade to PCI-E.

My computer is still < 1 yr old...too early to change out mb..

By then they will have something "better". I mean why have to have 2 cards to get max preformance??

ya, i'll wait for G100 or X2000

 

[Subwayeatbig]

7800gs agp is offically soft released. A paper launch. Source Extreme Tech podcast. Avaliable in February.

 

[tfcmasta97]

Originally posted by: Rollo
AGP is still dead, but I'm happy for all the "I'll give up my AGP mobo when you pry it from my cold dead fingers" crowd.

some of us have better things to do with $3000 and dont care about our e-peen being madleet

 

[redfoot12]

Originally posted by: Subwayeatbig
7800gs agp is offically soft released. A paper launch. Source Extreme Tech podcast. Avaliable in February.

Looks like I'm gonna have to sell that 6800 GS I bought. A little while longer with my 9800 Pro (and a full-on upgrade next year).

 

[NoStateofMind]

You ready to pay close to $400? That's what early reports are anyways.

 

[TheSlamma]

waste of cash, just get a new mobo with PCI, this card won't sell for crap once it's time to recycle it on ebay.

 

[1EZduzit]

Or maybe just wait 6 months and buy it for $200.

 

[gotsmack]

yea, I can use my 6800oc until the end of the year then buy the 7800 and put in the old card into a different comp.

if the msrp is 400 it will most likely fall to $350 after 3 months and be at barely sub 300 by year end.

and it doesn't matter if I can't sell it because I have to upgrade everything in 08 anyway. Until then I have to live with a 4800+ X2 <when it gets here>

 

[NoStateofMind]

The MSRP from the other 7800GS thread is $350.

 

[Mik3y]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
You ready to pay close to $400? That's what early reports are anyways.

only at release. once stable, the price will be between $260-300. it HAS to be cheaper than the 7800 gt. well, maybe. if it were pci-e, then yes, but since this will likely be agp's last video card and its best, the price may just as well fluctuate to even above x850xt pe prices.

 

[redfoot12]

$350 is worth it to me now, although I would like to see some actual benchmarks for this AGP. I may sound stubborn but my 3.4 GHz Northwood still seems like too good of a CPU to give up just yet (even though it's almost 2 years old). I want to see what new tech will be out over the next year before I make the switch to yet another outdated mobo/cpu (939) and graphics interface (PCI-E vs PCI-E 2.0), as well as a DX 10 card.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
The MSRP from the other 7800GS thread is $350.

That's just silly with $200 800/850 Xt's floating around out there.

This is where you AGP holders are gonna get bit. Limited production cards with a price premium when you could have gotten PCIe board AND the card of your choice for the same price or less with sub $100 PCIe boards out there. In fact EVGA runs the 7800GT and thier Sli board for $350 all the time in hot deals. It's the same thing with DDR right now. Intel being market leader and using DDR2 all foundries have geared up to make DDR2 so it comes in cheaper than limited production DDR. Limted production stuff always carries more a premium than mainstream.


Then you go to resale that AGP card and board a year from now it won't have any value on the tech market. Should have sold board and card last year to someone for a nice resale to another AGP holdout. I did.

AGP may not be DEAD but it sure is DUMB.

 

[fliguy84]

maybe the retailers are taking advantage of releasing it early before launch date to get more profit with higher price than MSRP.

 

[gotsmack]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
The MSRP from the other 7800GS thread is $350.

That's just silly with $200 800/850 Xt's floating around out there.

This is where you AGP holders are gonna get bit. Limited production cards with a price premium when you could have gotten PCIe board AND the card of your choice for the same price or less with sub $100 PCIe boards out there. In fact EVGA runs the 7800GT and thier Sli board for $350 all the time in hot deals. It's the same thing with DDR right now. Intel being market leader and using DDR2 all foundries have geared up to make DDR2 so it comes in cheaper than limited production DDR. Limted production stuff always carries more a premium than mainstream.


Then you go to resale that AGP card and board a year from now it won't have any value on the tech market. Should have sold board and card last year to someone for a nice resale to another AGP holdout. I did.

AGP may not be DEAD but it sure is DUMB.

what did you do with your ps when you got a pcie setup?

one of the reasons I stayed with agp is because I didn't feel like I got my money's worth out of my enermax that I paid $150 for.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: gotsmack

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
The MSRP from the other 7800GS thread is $350.

That's just silly with $200 800/850 Xt's floating around out there.

This is where you AGP holders are gonna get bit. Limited production cards with a price premium when you could have gotten PCIe board AND the card of your choice for the same price or less with sub $100 PCIe boards out there. In fact EVGA runs the 7800GT and thier Sli board for $350 all the time in hot deals. It's the same thing with DDR right now. Intel being market leader and using DDR2 all foundries have geared up to make DDR2 so it comes in cheaper than limited production DDR. Limted production stuff always carries more a premium than mainstream.


Then you go to resale that AGP card and board a year from now it won't have any value on the tech market. Should have sold board and card last year to someone for a nice resale to another AGP holdout. I did.

AGP may not be DEAD but it sure is DUMB.

what did you do with your ps when you got a pcie setup?

one of the reasons I stayed with agp is because I didn't feel like I got my money's worth out of my enermax that I paid $150 for.

That's a myth started by people who had underpowered 20 pin PSU's in the first place - or underpowered dual rail ones - I been used my 20 pin 465Watt Enermax for almost a year in 24 pin board. Solid 33A rail lets me overclock dual cores - Sli and lots of drives. I tried it in two boards now Abit An8 U/sli and DFI NF4.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
The MSRP from the other 7800GS thread is $350.

is this **CONFIRMED**


that was my "guess" . . . dead on.

what do i win?


:roll:

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Then you go to resale that AGP card and board a year from now it won't have any value on the tech market.

Maybe then I will be able to afford to upgrade my video card.

Your right, if you got the bucks to spend, dump your old system. If you don't then wait until you do. The longer you wait, the better your new system will be.

I just don't game enough to justify getting rid of a 3.2Ghz system with a 1.5 gig of ram just because the video preformance isn't top notch. Heck, it's major overkill for everything else I do. I plan on keeping it as my main system for a couple of years, then it will replace my old system which is just for backups, recording TV, things like that.

It's kind of like a car. If you can afford it, the best thing to do is trade it in every year or two to stay current. If you can't afford to do that, then drive it into the ground and save your money for when you HAVE to upgrade it.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Zebo

Then you go to resale that AGP card and board a year from now it won't have any value on the tech market.

Maybe then I will be able to afford to upgrade my video card.

Your right, if you got the bucks to spend, dump your old system. If you don't then wait until you do. The longer you wait, the better your new system will be.

I just don't game enough to justify getting rid of a 3.2Ghz system with a 1.5 gig of ram just because the video preformance isn't top notch. Heck, it's major overkill for everything else I do. I plan on keeping it as my main system for a couple of years, then it will replace my old system which is just for backups, recording TV, things like that.

It's kind of like a car. If you can afford it, the best thing to do is trade it in every year or two to stay current. If you can't afford to do that, then drive it into the ground and save your money for when you HAVE to upgrade it.

dang, i couldn't have said it better


Some people like the very latest and are willing to pay a 'premium' for it . . .

in a year or two - my NOT upgrading now - will allow me to save for an Uber-computer then . . . and i will be "fine" with not selling my old system . . . i couldn't get "much" for it now, anyway . . . not to justify a system sidegrade to PCIe just for a more "full featured" GPU.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Zebo

Then you go to resale that AGP card and board a year from now it won't have any value on the tech market.

Maybe then I will be able to afford to upgrade my video card.

Your right, if you got the bucks to spend, dump your old system. If you don't then wait until you do. The longer you wait, the better your new system will be.

I just don't game enough to justify getting rid of a 3.2Ghz system with a 1.5 gig of ram just because the video preformance isn't top notch. Heck, it's major overkill for everything else I do. I plan on keeping it as my main system for a couple of years, then it will replace my old system which is just for backups, recording TV, things like that.

It's kind of like a car. If you can afford it, the best thing to do is trade it in every year or two to stay current. If you can't afford to do that, then drive it into the ground and save your money for when you HAVE to upgrade it.

I agree with everything you said until you started in about the car stuff. I buy 1 year old, domestic only letting someone else eat the 50% depreciation and still drive late model. Computers don't depreciate 50% in one year (unless you do somthing dumb like fo buy a 7800GS AGP)) plus it's a totally differnet tool requireing, depending on user as noted, latest and greatest to actually perform. I can drive down the road in a 65 caddy same as I can in a 2005.

I'll tell you what. Pen me in for hunting next fall and I'll bring you a PCIe 7800GT system for free.

i couldn't get "much" for it now, anyway

That's cause you waited too long Pop. I and others sold tons of CPU, mem and GPU things for exactly what I paid or even more depending how it clocks. You see those $150 opterons going for $350 on ebay? Motherboard will always have about 20% depreciation during it's first year. Drives- cases and stuff forgetabout it.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Zebo
I agree with everything you said until you started in about the car stuff. I buy 1 year old, domestic only letting someone else eat the 50% depreciation and still drive late model. Computers don't depreciate 50% in one year (unless you do somthing dumb like fo buy a 7800GS AGP)) plus it's a totally differnet tool requireing, depending on user as noted, latest and greatest to actually perform. I can drive down the road in a 65 caddy same as I can in a 2005.

I'll tell you what. Pen me in for hunting next fall and I'll bring you a PCIe 7800GT system for free.

I never said it had to be a brand new car, although if you can afford it, why not?? My Dad traveled for a living and he put a minimum of 50,000 miles on a year, so he HAD to trade every year. It was nice to always be driving around in a brand new car. I could get used to doing that again, LOL.

Hey, if your interested in a pheasant hunt, PM me or email me at roostershooter[at]gmail[dot]com. I'd bet we could work something out.

 

[hooflung]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor
This is great news for me. My nForce2 system will soldier on a while yet!

You wouldn't even tap a 6800 Ultra why would you buy a 7800GS ?

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Zebo

Then you go to resale that AGP card and board a year from now it won't have any value on the tech market.

Maybe then I will be able to afford to upgrade my video card.

Your right, if you got the bucks to spend, dump your old system. If you don't then wait until you do. The longer you wait, the better your new system will be.

I just don't game enough to justify getting rid of a 3.2Ghz system with a 1.5 gig of ram just because the video preformance isn't top notch. Heck, it's major overkill for everything else I do. I plan on keeping it as my main system for a couple of years, then it will replace my old system which is just for backups, recording TV, things like that.

It's kind of like a car. If you can afford it, the best thing to do is trade it in every year or two to stay current. If you can't afford to do that, then drive it into the ground and save your money for when you HAVE to upgrade it.

I agree with everything you said until you started in about the car stuff. I buy 1 year old, domestic only letting someone else eat the 50% depreciation and still drive late model. Computers don't depreciate 50% in one year (unless you do somthing dumb like fo buy a 7800GS AGP)) plus it's a totally differnet tool requireing, depending on user as noted, latest and greatest to actually perform. I can drive down the road in a 65 caddy same as I can in a 2005.

I'll tell you what. Pen me in for hunting next fall and I'll bring you a PCIe 7800GT system for free.

i couldn't get "much" for it now, anyway

That's cause you waited too long Pop. I and others sold tons of CPU, mem and GPU things for exactly what I paid or even more depending how it clocks. You see those $150 opterons going for $350 on ebay? Motherboard will always have about 20% depreciation during it's first year. Drives- cases and stuff forgetabout it.

you are a bit of a HW elitist [i wont say Hardware snob in polite company]


i did NOT wait too long . . . first of all . . . i got a GREAT deal on my current rig . . . i spent less than $200 total upgrading after selling off my old Tualatin system.

. . . it was the perfect bang-for-buck system at the perfect time. i had no illusions about it's longevity [being a 2.8 Northwood P4 @ 3.3-3.5Ghz] but i have performance roughly equivalent to a stock A64-3200+ in gaming and a A643500 in everything else . . . still a nice mid-range system and is 2 years old this month.

i have no problem taking this "$200 system" complete with my $200 x850xt and dropping in into the trash in the next 18 months . . . $500 for 3-1/2 years is decent and i am already saving for my next system . . . Dual core/xfire/PPU/DDR3/PCIe2/bluRay and Dual Display.

other people do things differntly than you do with results that are satisfactory to them.