Air Force Question

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EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
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Originally posted by: habib89
so i talked to a navy recruiter today. he said with my degree i should try for nukes on either a sub or a ship. anyone know anything about that? he said 6 months at sea, 18 months on shore. how true is that?

when i was chatting with the air force recruiter, he told me that it'd be 2011 before i would get into OTS. he said all the spots are taken up until then. does that sound right, or should i talk to someone else?

USAF slots are easily filled up based on the projected demand.
The MPC looks at what is coming through the Academy and the 2 yr ROTC programs; then projects how many more are needed - those are filled via the OTC/OCS program.

The normal rate of attrition in the two primary programs are taken into account.

If a slot that was anticipated to be filled becomes vacant, they have two choices; assign someone that is committed, but not in training to fill the slot or allow the slot to be filled via the domino affect (ie leaving one officer slot unfilled until the numbers lineup).

For myself, I was bumped up months with only 1 week warning. Went active training in May vs August. A slot opened up and someone felt that I was qualified to fill it ASAP.

 

bctbct

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2005
4,868
1
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My son is on a ballistic sub and getting ready to transfer to a fast attack. He usually was out for 40-70 days and then back for 3 mo. before they went back out. They have 2 crews that rotate.

He is now transferring to a fast attack and I know the sea duty is totally different.

He told me last night the Navy is broke until the new budget year (Oct?) and that bonus' are cut off. You may drag your feet to see what they offer after that for enlistment.
 

habib89

Diamond Member
Jan 17, 2001
3,599
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for bonuses, they're offering $15,000 for getting into the nukes program. i was just reading something on about.com about the rotation shifts on subs. 3 shifts, 6 hrs each. so 6 hrs on, 12 hrs off, 18 hr days. not sure if this was for the ballistic or fast attack, but apparently for ballastic since your son is on the fast attack.

so i'm still unsure about wether i want to join the AF, Navy or none at all. but man, 2011 until i can go to AF OTS? that's a long time.
 

thepd7

Diamond Member
Jan 2, 2005
9,423
0
0
Originally posted by: habib89
so i talked to a navy recruiter today. he said with my degree i should try for nukes on either a sub or a ship. anyone know anything about that? he said 6 months at sea, 18 months on shore. how true is that?

when i was chatting with the air force recruiter, he told me that it'd be 2011 before i would get into OTS. he said all the spots are taken up until then. does that sound right, or should i talk to someone else?

Navy Nuc sub program is hardcore, LOTS of studying. And yes it 6 months at sea a year-ishback.

You can make a crapton of money very fast though. When I was in college 3-4 years ago they were offering $20k bonus to any engineering major.
 

coloumb

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
4,069
0
81
Originally posted by: habib89
i'm ok making a 6 year commitment. i'm thinking that if i join, i'll probably be career. i mean i'm turning 30, so to retire at 50 would be pretty nice. the nukes program sounded pretty tempting. not much moving around, but 6 month stints are very long. has anyone had experience in a sub? my wife is wary of it. obviously it's my decision since i'm the one going in, but she made a good point. being trapped in a sardine can, under water, not being able to see the sun for 6 months? doesn't sound too fun

Be prepared for some very close living with others in the same quarters as yourself. I know of a few people who were in the navy [on sub duty] and the stories they use to tell me were enough to make me glad I went into the Air Force [as a nuke weapons specialist].

If navy nuke tech program is anything like the AF nuke tech program - you won't be doing anything other than polishing/touching up/cleaning the bombs and performing routine maintenance.

I'd definitely suggest the Air Force route/ You'll be stationed in one location for as long as you want without having to go away for 6 months.

If you still want the nuke tech program (I was stationed in Ellsworth SD - 28th MMS for 4 years] - caring for nukes in the Air Force is very VERY easy - you go to work, you polish/clean a few bombs, you practice loading up bombs on the launchers, and you occasionally stand outside the storage facilities dressed up as rambo [shotgun, bullet proof vest, metal helmet - all the works] - typically from 8-5 with weekends off. Every now and then - you'll have to be part of a war simulation with is nothing more than 12 hour shifts for a few days [maybe a week].
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
Unless you're going to screw yourself, why the hell are you still talking to the recruiters. I can open a fantasy book and read to you if you want that.
 

NoCreativity

Golden Member
Feb 28, 2008
1,735
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91
Originally posted by: drinkmorejava
No reason for you to enlist. Just search for jobs through the DOD. All very secure, and with an engineering degree you would definitely be paid more as a civilian. You might have to relocate, but you would be a permanent employee unless you decided to switch bases.

There are dozens and dozens of research bases to look at. I'll be at Edwards when I graduate next year.

usajobs.gov

You could also try some contracting houses to get your foot in the door at DOD.
 

DainBramaged

Lifer
Jun 19, 2003
23,454
41
91
At your age, can you even get into an officer program? I thought the max age was 27ish or something. Just askin.
 

chusteczka

Diamond Member
Apr 12, 2006
3,399
3
71
Originally posted by: habib89
i'm ok making a 6 year commitment. i'm thinking that if i join, i'll probably be career. i mean i'm turning 30, so to retire at 50 would be pretty nice. the nukes program sounded pretty tempting. not much moving around, but 6 month stints are very long. has anyone had experience in a sub? my wife is wary of it. obviously it's my decision since i'm the one going in, but she made a good point. being trapped in a sardine can, under water, not being able to see the sun for 6 months? doesn't sound too fun

A mechanical engineer is the ideal educational skillset for a Navy officer since you know how to operate the ship's machinery. The question is, do you want to operate a ship? What is more important to you, a life with your career or a life with your family? You are considering assuming a role as a sailor on a ship. Ships are designed to be at sea. The typical example is a 6 month deployment but this neglects the 6 month shipyard overhaul to prepare the ship before hand, the four months of training, the two months of at-sea certification trials. The list of responsibilities goes on. A ship will return to port, gather supplies, repair equipment, then return to the sea. This time, maybe the ship will return in two weeks, then return to port for two weeks, then return to sea for 6 weeks. The schedule varies but never stops until you enter the shipyard and that is where the real work begins.

In my time as an enlisted submarine mechanic, I spent 2.5 years assigned to a fast attack submarine. This often involved 90 hour workweeks, super long hours, and unhappy people. A common story was that the Navy has the highest divorce rate among the military, with the submarine force possessing the highest divorce rate in the Navy. Of course, officer's wives and families are more committed to their sailor than enlisted wives are but a toll is still exacted on the whole family. Do you want to spend Christmas with your family? That may happen this year. How about your child's birthday? You may be home for that next year. How about fireworks on the fourth of July? Shit, daddy is going to miss that also but do not worry, he loves you very much. This places an incredible amount of stress on your wife. You will be lucky if you are home for half of your child's school semester. I missed whole seasons on that submarine and now find great enjoyment in feeling the weather; the open sky, rain, snow, trees blowing in the wind, waking up to the sound of birds through the open window with fresh air in the morning. So long as you are assigned to a ship, this schedule does not stop. It repeats for several years. You can get a break by being assigned to a year of shore duty to return to school but you then spend another four to six years at sea.

Even if the ship is in port, at least one officer is onboard at all times. A ship is active 24 hours a day. The lights are never turned off and the doors are never shut. By the way, hatches and valves are never closed on a submarine, they are "shut". The word "close" sounds too similar to "blow(s)" and this term relates to blowing the main ballast tanks as an emergency means to return a submarine to the surface.

Your first tour will last the duration of your initial obligation. When it comes time to recommit more of your time or return to civilian life, they will tempt you with 1 or 2 years of shore duty, after which you will return to sea duty until the end of your current commitment. The cycle then repeats.

As an officer, you will be assigned to nearly every work division in the ship so you can learn the capabilities and responsibilities of each position. Typically 8-12 months in each position. Sonar, weapons, navigation, radio, auxiliary engineering, powerplant engineering. You will qualify as the in-port duty officer as you qualify to operate the reactor or engine room. Then you will qualify as the Officer Of the Deck (OOD), this is where you will get to drive the ship when at sea.

My father recently retired as a private doctor. His neighbor is a recently retired marine, much younger than my father. This retired marine has gone on three cruises this past year, my father is not fiscally able to go on even a single cruise. My father attempted to convince me to return to the Navy as an officer now that I have an engineering degree. My father cited retirement after 20 years and the fact his neighbor enjoys numerous vacations. The military works you 24 hours a day, it exhausts a person. The reason retirement is after 20 years is because a person is mentally and physically exhausted.

What role do you want to play?
  • Innovate, create, and design
  • support and repair
  • operate
As an engineer, you can innovate, create, and design machinery. You can support the machinery, and then you can operate the machinery. Machine operators are at the lowest in the hierarchy. A support role can be through shipyard support. Playing an active role with machinery innovation can take place in your hometown with strong skills.

Your experience as an officer would be different from my experience as enlisted. You would be treated far better than I was but you will be responsible for the machinery assigned to you and for your people. That responsibility is paid for by the level of stress you must endure. I remember a nuclear qualified officer (at the lieutenant level, O-3) mentioning to me that he was offered a $60k bonus to sign for another four years of active submarine duty. This was back in 1991. He was not happy and turned this down to return to civilian duty. I was not in a position to learn his reasons. A good job in retirement from a submarine qualified officer is as a consultant to private defense companies.

Nuclear studies are intense and fast paced. Those that do not complete their training due to academic failure still incur an obligation to complete their 6 year commitment. I failed from the enlisted nuclear power school and those remaining five years were long for me. Each day, I told myself just to get through that one day, for five long years. Anyways, I was not prepared for the scholastic difficulty at 18 years of age even though I later completed a BS in engineering at the University of Illinois.

As a nuclear trained Naval officer, you will be responsible for the ship's nuclear power plant. This can be on an aircraft carrier or a submarine. I assume those officers not able to complete their nuclear training go on to work on the non-nuclear powered ships, which can be just as rewarding in the same manner as nuclear duty can provide, just without the nuclear pay, submarine pay, and prestige. Maintaining a ship's power plant is arduous work, even for the officers, since the power plant is the life of the ship. Although, an engineering officer is well respected throughout the ship since the engineers are the ones who understand the mysteries of the engineroom.

Ask if you have any questions. I have six years worth of experience in Navy submarine life with which to answer.

EDIT: One little thing. The sun provides vitamin D. A shortage of Vitamin D can cause depression. The engineers of a ship do not see much sunlight.

I learned many lessons in life while in the Navy that have served me well but I do not look back at that time fondly.
 

chusteczka

Diamond Member
Apr 12, 2006
3,399
3
71
Originally posted by: habib89
so i talked to a navy recruiter today. he said with my degree i should try for nukes on either a sub or a ship. anyone know anything about that? he said 6 months at sea, 18 months on shore. how true is that? ...

Ballistic missile submarines typically operate on 6 month deployments. One crew goes out with the ship for six months while the second crew stays on shore. When the submarine returns, both crews work together to repair the ship and prepare it again for sea. Then the ship returns for another 6 month deployment with the second crew.

However, my service was on a fast attack submarine so I am not certain of the ballistic submarine's schedule. I have never heard anyone mention 18 months of shore duty and do not believe that such a thing exists.

The schedule of a fast attack submarine is to keep that ship at sea. The schedule varies due to operational commitments which range from deployments to training to weapons firing exercises to shoreline patrol to other activities I am not able to mention.

Operational Commitment examples
  • Deployment to some body of water
  • shipyard repairs
  • shoreline patrol
  • training exercises
  • weapons certification
  • other

The length of time for being at sea varies but fast attacks are kept at sea as much as possible. It might be three days this time but the ship will return to sea for 2 months after a week in port. 3 - 4 weeks at sea was normal followed by 2-3 weeks in port.

It is the recruiter's job to fill the positions the Navy needs most. The Navy mostly needs ship's engineers and this is easily the most difficult duty for a Navy officer. This is why they steer you towards a position on a ship in the engineroom. This is also why other positions have a waiting list.
 

cKGunslinger

Lifer
Nov 29, 1999
16,408
57
91
Have you considered a job in the private sector as a DOD Contractor employee? What exactly are you looking for? Job security?

Get a job for defense contractor and have them sponsor you for a DoD Security clearance (higher the better.) Don't have any major fuck-ups and you should be OK. It's not too turbulent.
 

habib89

Diamond Member
Jan 17, 2001
3,599
0
0
thank you everyone for your responses. i apologize for abandoning this post, but i wanted to revive it just to let all the responders know that i have decided against the military. the last post was august, so in that time i've done a crap-ton of information and my wife and i decided that it wasn't for us. I've decided to just look for a civilian job instead. i'm looking into the government jobs and what not, but there's not a ton out there. Anyway, thanks again for all the help, and if anyone knows of any openings for an engineer with about 4 years of experience and a security clearance, let me know!

Thanks again everyone!
 

da loser

Platinum Member
Oct 9, 1999
2,037
0
0
recommend you look at some of the DOD contractors. not just the big ones, like Boeing, etc. but the ones that work directly for the government also.

saic, etc.

look at the newspapers of cities for the major research facilities. they should list a ton of jobs.
 
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